Poor mans downrigger issues

[damos]

So after a few attempts I got a poor mans rig running and got a rat kingy (target species ) on the weekend. I did have some issues though and ended up with a huge tangle which I had to cut off. I'm using it off a kayak in about a 20 metres depth, trolling it around 10 metres. Here is the rig and I'm hoping someone may be able to point out why it kept on tangling up. I have a running snapper lead running to a swivel. The lead is also attached to some lighter line incase it gets snagged, it would come off before breaking the main line. I then had a trace of about 2 metres to a sliding snell and trolling squid strips. After the first pass, the trace was already a little tangled around the main line, as well as the sinker. Anyone else have this issue when slow trolling with this rig? I'm thinking I either need more weight, or have some additional fluorocarbon line before the sinker as maybe the braid is more easily tangled.

[xerotao]

I guess you answered your own question

Running sinker on braid causes issues with tangling. Maybe even more weight wouldnt hurt either. Just my opinion

[PaddyT]

Ok, dont let the sinker run up the line, run 3-4 m of leader on your braid and tie off to a swivel, put the sinker on , then another swivel and run another 50cm -1m to your hook. The hook needs to be non offset type, the sinker is best if its a barrell or bean- no twist, no tangles Good luck

[Captain Spanner]

A few things, the tangling probably happens if you let the bait and rig free fall down too quickly. With an open bail arm or complete free spool the bait probably has more water drag on it trying to sink than there is for the line to be pulled off the spool. This means that the sinker plummets to the bottom and pulls the mainline through the sinker/sinker clip/swivel as it goes down. This means that the mainline and and trace are running vertically next to each other. The water drag on the bait causes it to spin around and around the two lines twisting them together to your rig looks like the letter "Y" with the sinker at the bottom. You should definitely lower the bait down slowly to minimise tangling and also with livies so they don't get dizzy and sad. Other tricks that you may consider are to put some type of stopper above the sinker to restrict how far up the line it can go. You can tie a stopper knot with half a rubber band onto the main line which works well. The other thing to consider is how you attach the running sinker. You probably dont need a long dropper to the sinker but you can still have it as a sacrifice. depending on how heavy your main line is you could just use a sliding sinker clip like an Ezy Rig, I use them and i have stopped using sacrifice line attachements as i know the clip will break before the mainline if it gets snagged. You can also tie a swivel hard against the top of the snapper lead (with lighter line) and slide the other end of the swivel onto the main line so the swivel slides up and down the line and it will help against the snapper lead spinning and twisting the line. You can also use the swivel on the sinker trick with an Ezy Rig clip.  I started to use torpedo sinkers for poor mans down riggers and trolling as the are much better through the water and just try harder not to hit the bottom. In any of  these cases i use a rubber band stopper on my windon leader (with a leader knot not a fancy windon) to stop the sinker being able to slide over the braid to leader connection. 

To get a bit pickier, when using two hook rigs, especially withe squid strips slow trolling, drifting or anchored in heavy current you may want to consider using non-offset hooks like live bait hooks and paying careful attention to (and checking in the water before you drop it down) that the bait does not spin in the water. The fish don't always like it and it does cause tangles.

[sharknett]

Is your swivel actually working? If the bait spins and the swivel doesn't the leader will eventually start to twist back over itself. As mentioned above, find non offset hooks are also better for trolling baits.

I usually tie the sinker to a snap swivel with maybe 5cm of  line between. I then clip the sinker to the top loop (closest to the rod) of the swivel connecting the trace to the leader. Seems to work.

 

[Guest Guest123456789]

This ones easy.

just use a rubber band to connect a snapper sinker directly to your main line.  This will break if snagged. 

To stop the bait spinning you can either use a swivel or use a skirt etc to deflect the water from the bait (live or otherwise) this stopping spinning 

[damos]

2 hours ago, PaddyT said:

Ok, dont let the sinker run up the line, run 3-4 m of leader on your braid and tie off to a swivel, put the sinker on , then another swivel and run another 50cm -1m to your hook. The hook needs to be non offset type, the sinker is best if its a barrell or bean- no twist, no tangles Good luck

Cheers thanks for the Paddy. By non offset hook, what do you mean? Currently I'm using octopus hooks.

[damos]

1 hour ago, Captain Spanner said:

A few things, the tangling probably happens if you let the bait and rig free fall down too quickly. With an open bail arm or complete free spool the bait probably has more water drag on it trying to sink than there is for the line to be pulled off the spool. This means that the sinker plummets to the bottom and pulls the mainline through the sinker/sinker clip/swivel as it goes down. This means that the mainline and and trace are running vertically next to each other. The water drag on the bait causes it to spin around and around the two lines twisting them together to your rig looks like the letter "Y" with the sinker at the bottom. You should definitely lower the bait down slowly to minimise tangling and also with livies so they don't get dizzy and sad. Other tricks that you may consider are to put some type of stopper above the sinker to restrict how far up the line it can go. You can tie a stopper knot with half a rubber band onto the main line which works well. The other thing to consider is how you attach the running sinker. You probably dont need a long dropper to the sinker but you can still have it as a sacrifice. depending on how heavy your main line is you could just use a sliding sinker clip like an Ezy Rig, I use them and i have stopped using sacrifice line attachements as i know the clip will break before the mainline if it gets snagged. You can also tie a swivel hard against the top of the snapper lead (with lighter line) and slide the other end of the swivel onto the main line so the swivel slides up and down the line and it will help against the snapper lead spinning and twisting the line. You can also use the swivel on the sinker trick with an Ezy Rig clip.  I started to use torpedo sinkers for poor mans down riggers and trolling as the are much better through the water and just try harder not to hit the bottom. In any of  these cases i use a rubber band stopper on my windon leader (with a leader knot not a fancy windon) to stop the sinker being able to slide over the braid to leader connection. 

To get a bit pickier, when using two hook rigs, especially withe squid strips slow trolling, drifting or anchored in heavy current you may want to consider using non-offset hooks like live bait hooks and paying careful attention to (and checking in the water before you drop it down) that the bait does not spin in the water. The fish don't always like it and it does cause tangles.

Cheers thanks this reply Captain, very informative. I think I was dropping it down too quick which may be adding to the twist. I'll also check out the Ezi Rig.

[damos]

Thanks for the replies everyone, definitely  got some pointers to work on.

[MainframeJames]

Have a look at this hack, made from a wire coat hanger. 

Link to full video: 

Edited March 27, 2018 by MainframeJames

[PaddyT]

21 hours ago, damos said:

Cheers thanks for the Paddy. By non offset hook, what do you mean? Currently I'm using octopus hooks.

Yeah- stop using them, decent king will snap 'em, plus they are offset so the bait will track or spin when trolled. Use hooks like Mustad hoodlums, Gama Live baits (not the offset's) a non offset hook is one where the tip lines up with the shank and eye. You can rig offsets in pairs to stop spin but it gets tricky , simple is best in 99% of circumstances

[JonD]

I made my own 4lb and 5lb ball sinkers, must admit I use mine to simply get a bait down 60-80m among marlin. I only move my bait very slowly just making sure I keep with the bait balls, in and out of gear with the engine.

Release clips at pretty cheap and way better than bands as you can agjust the tension. The ball sinkers kept spinning ending with line tangles so I cut some plastic and siliconed fins to the balls and haven't had any issues since.

 

 

[damos]

On 3/27/2018 at 6:57 PM, MainframeJames said:

Have a look at this hack, made from a wire coat hanger. 

Link to full video: 

Very cool, like that guys Youtube vids as well