Captain Pugwash Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Ladies and Gents, as some of you will know I have a rather large problem with my boat. I have a 31' Noosa Cat with twin 200hp Volvo Penta's. Through a bilge pump failure one has been flooded by salt water and the other has severe leg damage thru a useless mechanic fitting the wrong uni joint. The result is a quote of 44k to fix both motors. I have done a lot of soul searching about this and PhilD from the site made a suggestion of considering outboards instead. I have made a couple of enquiries and have so far come up with the following possibilities. 1. Twin 200hp Suzuki 4 stroke outboards for approx 50k, or 2. Twin 200hp Mercury 2 stroke EFI outboards for approx 43k. or 3. Spend 44k to get the Volvo's fixed My needs are as follows. We mainly fish the harbour and up as far as Long Reef. I MAY occasionally go out wide but it would be very occasionally. I don't particularly need instant speed. I troll a bit but maybe only 10% of the time. What I really want is the most reliable motors firstly then fuel efficiency would be the next factor. I am an absolute novice on this stuff but I believe that going with new outboards will be a better option than the 10 yr old inboards. All help appreciated. Cheers Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantm Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) Wow what a nightmare Captain ! Doesnt sound like either way is any good. How much work is involved removing the inboards and modifying the hull once the prop shafts are removed, and also modifying thr transom to accomidate twin outboards. Almost seems cost prohibitive to do so youd think. Why not bite the bullet, sell the boat as is, and invest your dollars into a new boat. 50k will get you a damn nice boat and would easily do the job of fishing the areas you mentioned, especially if your prepeared to spend that on just the motors for your current one. Of course thats only my opinion cause i dont need a huge boat but its food for thought and another option. Retrofitting from inboard to outboard really is a huge undertaking be carefull if you go that way mate. Good luck i hope it all works out for you. Cheers Edited February 13, 2006 by Grantm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hi Pete Can you claim on your insurance and get the motors rebuilt? Can you claim against the mechanics insurance for his negligence? Does the cost of the outboards include the retro fit to the boat to accommodate the outboards? If I was to go for an outboard solution I would go the Mercury. Easy to find someone who can service them. There a reliable brand and the EFI are as good as the four strokes. That’s a lot of money to save$7000. Pete it sounds as though your Noosa Cat is more than you need for the fishing your doing. Is there an alternative option to fix the motors and then trade down to say a Bertram 25 or a Bertram 23. Hope it all works out for you and your back on the water soon Cheers Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bashir Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 A boat that size would suffer performance wise with twin outboards in my opinion. I would repair the engines you have or get rid of them and get some twin diesels in there. The mercs are a great engine, I have one but they are super thirsty. I would hate to pay fuel for 2 of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pugwash Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Grant, thanks for that. The dollars I have put against those options include the work necessary to put outboards on. My main reason for the change is that I will never again flood the bastards! This is the second time this has happened in 2 years! I guess what I'm really after is piece of mind knowing I'll have new donks. As for selling the boat I see where you're coming from. However I was lucky enough to pick it up for 60k and it would cost 250k to buy new. I take my wife and two dogs out on it every sat and sun and we all love it very much. To go back into a smaller boat would do my sex life no good whatsover. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bashir Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 captain, I think you need to invest in a quality bilge pump and float switch. I have had similar problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pugwash Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Thanks for the feedback fellas, I guess I should clear up that we won't give up the Black Pig because we LOVE it way too much. Yes it's bigger than we need but you need to come for a trip on it to know that we would never downsize! No Insurance, I won't embarrass myself by telling the details. At the end of the day I think I'll go with some new outboards and hope and pray that between the warranty and the new technology I get a few years of hassle free fishing! Thanks again, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluecod Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Pete, If you smoke and have gas cooking/water heating on board, I'd stay with diesel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantm Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 To go back into a smaller boat would do my sex life no good whatsover. Cheers Peter Well we cant have that now can we ! If that is the case and keeping the Black Pig is the plan then I totally agree with Bashir. I think that a boat that size would struggle with outboards and would cost a fortune to run. Looking at the back of your boat I just cant see it with outboards. If there was ever a time for a permatrim that would be it ! It would need wings similar to an F-111 to get on the plane. Would it have any kind of resale value either ? I would look into repairing the motors and treating them like gold. Dont forget it wasnt really a fault with the motors so much so dont do anything to radical. Out of interest are your Penta's Turbo Deisel or the petrol models ? Dont know much about them but im sure they make both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry.dz Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Capt pugwash my opinion regarding your decision is, stick with the inboards as you'll devalue your boat by putting outboards . Nobody wants a moorded boat with outboards it's even worse than having legs. Go and do your self a deal with some new diesels . The boat would look terrible with outboards(just my opinion) Diesels King Of The Oceans. Hazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pugwash Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Pete, If you smoke and have gas cooking/water heating on board, I'd stay with diesel! Good point George, we have gas on board but have never used it for cooking or hot water. Because the boat is at a marina 5 minutes from home, we always drive home. You know, dogs needing to piss, etc , etc. Hadn't thought about the smoking. There are inbuilt tanks on either side of the boat with stainless steel screw caps. About 350 litres per side. With the boat so open at the back where the tanks are, would petrol be an issue? You have me a litle concerned now! I was thinking of giving the smokes away, maybe I should! I can't help but think that life would be a lot smoother with new motors that someone has to guarantee me will be OK. Cheers Pete Capt pugwash my opinion regarding your decision is, stick with the inboards as you'll devalue your boat by putting outboards . Nobody wants a moorded boat with outboards it's even worse than having legs. Go and do your self a deal with some new diesels . The boat would look terrible with outboards(just my opinion) Diesels King Of The Oceans. Hazza Hazza, I am so "out of my depth" on this decision! In my line of work I make 50k decisions over my weetbix but I have become a "Deer in the headlights" over this. I just don't know what to do. I really don't care about fuel economy or anything else, I just want to get on my boat and "KNOW" that I won't have a problem. Fantasy, I know, but for this amount of money, I want to make the "right" decision. I don't care about "looks" or resale value because I doubt I'll ever sell the boat. Being built to Navy specs I'm sure it will outlast me. I just want to go out every Sat and Sun and catch Kingy's without any boat dramas. And so far the diesels have caused me lots of dramas. Cheers Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluecod Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) Pete, You only need a little spill/leak and petrol and gas fumes will build in the bilge - problem is that when it goes off due to an errant spark, it doesn't give much horizontal thrust [which seems like what the Black Pig may be about sometimes ]. You should know there's no absolute guarantees with anything but as Bashir said earlier, invest in a good bilge pump [or two] with float switches and make sure your live tank is plumbed properly. Stick with the diesels as outboards will have less life in that environment than what you would expect - There's a Scarab or similar with outboards [minus lower leg units] moored up near Tunks Park and has been that way for over twelve months - leg units could have been stolen! Remember the African Queen wasn't powered by an outboard. Pete, I almost forgot - I know you don't troll too much [but that may change] and diesels are by far a better option for trolling. Edited February 13, 2006 by bluecod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pugwash Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 quote name='Grantm' date='Feb 13 2006, 10:14 PM' post='86648'] Well we cant have that now can we ! If that is the case and keeping the Black Pig is the plan then I totally agree with Bashir. I think that a boat that size would struggle with outboards and would cost a fortune to run. Looking at the back of your boat I just cant see it with outboards. If there was ever a time for a permatrim that would be it ! It would need wings similar to an F-111 to get on the plane. Would it have any kind of resale value either ? I would look into repairing the motors and treating them like gold. Dont forget it wasnt really a fault with the motors so much so dont do anything to radical. Out of interest are your Penta's Turbo Deisel or the petrol models ? Dont know much about them but im sure they make both. Grant, I know nothing about motors (obviously) but if volvo 200's get it on the plane, why wouldn't outboards? They are diesels. The only info I can give you is that they need a truck battery each side to start them. They are generally reliable. They are bloody hard to get to down in that hole. They are over 10 years old. They rely on shitty little bilge pumps to keep them dry. They have had problems ever since I got them with coolant loss and salt water ingress through the coolant system. And, I guess, most of all, because the boat is so big and bouyant, I don't even notice when one engine bay gets flooded! Am I on the wrong track to ditch them for motors I can actually see? You have to picture that we are merrily sitting at Bluefish Pt catching Kings and only when we decide to head home I find there is a problem! It's only my darling and I, so I have no "help" so to speak. For near enough to 50k, I just want to know that I will get home OK. The prices are all close enough that I just need to know what is the "best" decision for us. With 6 seperate airtight compartments in each hull, the boat will probably never sink. All I want is to have the best odds of it starting everytime I get on it. As you can tell, it's not a small decision and I appreciate everyone's assistance and thoughts. Cheers Pete For those who don't know here is the Black Pig. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluecod Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 You have to picture that we are merrily sitting at Bluefish Pt catching Kings and only when we decide to head home I find there is a problem! It's only my darling and I, so I have no "help" so to speak. For near enough to 50k, I just want to know that I will get home OK. Pete, Put some good bilge pumps in [two per engine compartment] and join SeaTow and Club Marine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pugwash Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Pete, You only need a little spill/leak and petrol and gas fumes will build in the bilge - problem is that when it goes off due to an errant spark, it doesn't give much horizontal thrust [which seems like what the Black Pig may be about sometimes ]. You should know there's no absolute guarantees with anything but as Bashir said earlier, invest in a good bilge pump [or two] with float switches and make sure your live tank is plumbed properly. Stick with the diesels as outboards will have less life in that environment than what you would expect - There's a Scarab or similar with outboards [minus lower leg units] moored up near Tunks Park and has been that way for over twelve months - leg units could have been stolen! Remember the African Queen wasn't powered by an outboard. Pete, I almost forgot - I know you don't troll too much [but that may change] and diesels are by far a better option for trolling. George, what you and Bashir say makes sense. How on earth do I arrive at the right decision here? All i want is for this to not happen again. I am more than happy with the concept of the diesels. It's just the nightmare run that I have had with them! How the hell do I decide? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluecod Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) How the hell do I decide? Easy! Phone Noosa Cat and get their opinion on the outboard option, or you could ask yourself - why wasn't it fitted with outboards in the first place? Edited February 13, 2006 by bluecod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pugwash Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 George, I knew when I met you at Clontarf that you were like my Dad (whom I respect deeply!) Why the hell wouldn't I ring Noosa Cat direct????????????? Thanks my friend, I'll do that tomorrow. Cheers Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 If you go petrol its not just bilge pumps, but blowers that also need to be operational. What you may also need to consider with the outboards is the weight distribution at the stern may change. Boats with inboards sit better in the water and ride better under power. There are a number of Noosa Cats with outboards, as the name says there made in Noosa and to get over the bar many were fitted with outboards. There advertisements in some of the boat mags depict them with outboards. The Mercury EFI is as fuel efficient as a four stroke. Good Luck Pete Cheers Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pugwash Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Thanks everyone, I'll ring Noosa Cat and ask them. Cheers Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phild Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 You know my opinon Pete, why muck around with an old unrelible inboard engine when you can have the bliss of twin 200's. Id go the 4/ and IMO with the work you do in the pigfuel consumption will not be an issue. I smoke and have never had an issue with petrol dangers, again IMO this is a firthy, we didnt blow up when we went out on my boat and the tanks are plastic hidden under the hatch. Im 100% confident the Noosa cat came with outboards and am very very confident they would power the boat very nicely. I went on a charter on a Noosa cat in Noosa with twins and it was a fantastic set up. GO THE OUTBOARDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bashir Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 If you go petrol its not just bilge pumps, but blowers that also need to be operational. What you may also need to consider with the outboards is the weight distribution at the stern may change. Boats with inboards sit better in the water and ride better under power. There are a number of Noosa Cats with outboards, as the name says there made in Noosa and to get over the bar many were fitted with outboards. There advertisements in some of the boat mags depict them with outboards. The Mercury EFI is as fuel efficient as a four stroke. Good Luck Pete Cheers Martin Martin the mercs are nowhere near as efficient as a 4 stroke. I did 260l the other week off port stephens, I know a guy with the same boat as mine with a 200 4 stroke and he uses less than half that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_s Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 (edited) Thats a beautiful looking boat Captain Pug. I have boat envy even if its not running right now! Edited February 14, 2006 by mark_s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Martin the mercs are nowhere near as efficient as a 4 stroke. I did 260l the other week off port stephens, I know a guy with the same boat as mine with a 200 4 stroke and he uses less than half that! Bashir, how old is your motor???? I read in Trade A Boat about 4 months back that the new generation EFI Mercury and the E-TECH's are as fuel efficent as the 4 strokes and have a weight advantage. The article went into the specifications of the motors and fuel consumption. End conclusion was go the EFI Mercury. Technology changes Bashir. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluecod Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Pete, Whichever way you go, if it is properly set up in the first place, maintained regularly by competent mechanics and looked after by yourself, you shouldn't have too much drama with the motors be they either diesel or outboard. Get one of them wrong and you'll have a pit on the water in which to throw money [hence the popularity of trailer boats as they provide a pit in the garage/backyard]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bashir Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Bashir, how old is your motor???? I read in Trade A Boat about 4 months back that the new generation EFI Mercury and the E-TECH's are as fuel efficent as the 4 strokes and have a weight advantage. The article went into the specifications of the motors and fuel consumption. End conclusion was go the EFI Mercury. Technology changes Bashir. Cheers It's a 2001 model martin - not ancient, the current model was released in 2004 and it doesn't have many differneces. I reckon mercury would mention on their website if their efi's used similar amounts of fuel, would be a great selling point. Are you sure it wasn't the optimax? What would be the point in having an optimax in the range if the efi uses the same amount of fuel as a 4 stroke. I know technology changes, but efi 2 strokes aren't new technology. Sorry but I fail to see how an efi 2 stroke can match a 4 stroke in fuel consumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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