Sydney Harbour Dioxin Levels

[mrmoshe]

Hi guys, just thought I'd let you all know that Channel Nine News tonight has a story on Dioxin levels in fish taken in Sydney Harbour.

Nine have done their own independent testing of fish caught at Goat Island in the harbour and have had them analysed by an independent testing laboratory.

They confirm the Government's testing of high Dioxin levels and also another alarming

toxic chemical that wasn't know about before.

It will be shown (in Sydney on TCN9) at 6pm and probably again on Nightline.

This independent test just confirms that fish taken is the harbour are NOT SAFE to eat

at the moment and should be a warning to those that think it is all just a Government

smoke screen to rid the harbour of commercial fishermen.

It's worth watching.

Pete.

[Davy]

Missed it.

I might have to have a read on the site, if its there.

Just a quick question, with the harbour being contaminated...does that include places such as the hawkesbury?

and if surface fish such as kingfish have high dioxin levels as well, it would be difficult to catch a feed elsewhere because fish in sydney harbour today could be in brisbane waters the next week for all we know?

Cheers

Davy

Edited February 27, 2006 by Davy

[Guest]

All bad I am afraid Dioxin levels 4.5 times the European level (which Australia adhere to ) and now they have found PCB's in the Bream as well And they dont know where that contamination is coming from

http://www.greenpeace.org.au/toxics/pops/pcb.html

hmmm nasty stuff

Cheers Swordfisherman

[Guest]

This is a very hot topic at the moment ,so lets get our fears and thoughts here as to what the future may well hold for our sport and our forum and our favourite pastime

I for one dont eat fish only catch and release ,but sometimes I have taken a feed home for mum or friends which I will be very wary of in the future I think

Cheers Swordfisherman.

[Grantm]

Im still a bit unsure about all these dioxin levels etc, i mean its like everything else isnt it.

Just add it to the list of things that are bad :

coffee, alchohol, dairy, carbs,cholesterol, the air is bad to breath, there is cripto spreridium in the water, the ozone is shrinking, an asteriod is coming, el-nino, oh&s, tight undies, uv light, microwave ovens, bla bla bla.

Whilst im sure these levels mean something, where is all this going to stop ? Whats next ?

We will all end up living in a bubble.

Chances are these dioxin levels have been this high for MANY years and if you eat these fish you have probably consumed 100 lifetimes more than the 'acceptable' level anyway. No point worrying about it now is there.

Dont worry - be happy.

[mrmoshe]

Im still a bit unsure about all these dioxin levels etc, i mean its like everything else isnt it.

Just add it to the list of things that are bad :

coffee, alchohol, dairy, carbs,cholesterol, the air is bad to breath, there is cripto spreridium in the water, the ozone is shrinking, an asteriod is coming, el-nino, oh&s, tight undies, uv light, microwave ovens, bla bla bla.

Whilst im sure these levels mean something, where is all this going to stop ? Whats next ?

We will all end up living in a bubble.

Chances are these dioxin levels have been this high for MANY years and if you eat these fish you have probably consumed 100 lifetimes more than the 'acceptable' level anyway. No point worrying about it now is there.

Dont worry - be happy.

Dioxins can be quite harmful to you. As well, you can pass on this harm to your unborn children.

It has a cumulative effect in humans.

Here is a good site from the U.S. with the facts on dioxin contamination, especially in fish and ways to avoid it.

http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/dioxin.htm

Here's another fact sheet from Greenpeace on Dioxin:

http://www.greenpeace.org.au/toxics/pdfs/dioxin_facts.pdf

We should all be concerned at this kind of pollution..it aint a good thing!!!

Cheers,

Pete.

Edited February 27, 2006 by MallacootaPete

[mrsswordfisherman]

Im still a bit unsure about all these dioxin levels etc, i mean its like everything else isnt it.

Just add it to the list of things that are bad :

coffee, alchohol, dairy, carbs,cholesterol, the air is bad to breath, there is cripto spreridium in the water, the ozone is shrinking, an asteriod is coming, el-nino, oh&s, tight undies, uv light, microwave ovens, bla bla bla.

Whilst im sure these levels mean something, where is all this going to stop ? Whats next ?

We will all end up living in a bubble.

Chances are these dioxin levels have been this high for MANY years and if you eat these fish you have probably consumed 100 lifetimes more than the 'acceptable' level anyway. No point worrying about it now is there.

Dont worry - be happy.

I agree Grantm. I am a healthcare professional and daily receive Health Dept bulletins regarding "health alerts". A lot of the warnings issued are due to the litigious nature of our society unfortunately. It is up to an individual to read and listen and to make up their own minds about how to respond.

Cheers mrsswordfisherman

P.S. Its great that we have a forum such as this to air our views and speak freely and learn from each other about issues such as this one.

[Grantm]

Yeah its just my view on these issues. To be honest im a bit of a cynic. Ive lost some close family members who were apparently healthy and died from/or have had the big 'c'. Me and my wife had had our own battles to overcome too.

Once you face these challanges in life things such as dioxin levels etc do not scare, concern or intimidate.

In fact they are almost humerous to me.

Sorry to be a bit morbid its just how i feel about this stuff.

Dioxin levels ? - you'll have to do better than that to get me worried. Life is too short to worry, just live it.

[gio]

i have read somewhere that it isnt the dioxin levels which have changed, these have remained the same for many years rather its the international standards on acceptable levels of dioxins that have changed. So chances are grant what you said is most likey correct and that anyone eating fish in the harbour has consumed more than what is recommended for a lifetime.

[neilm]

Hello All,

even more reason to join in this protest organised by Bob Smith of the fishing party.

Red Alert, Red Alert, Red Alert

NSW Community Marine Parks and “Toxic Sludge is our Grudge” Protest Rally

TUESDAY 28TH FEB 2006 at 11am to 12.30

PARLIAMENT HOUSE

MACQUARIE ST

SYDNEY

Details:

Monday, February 20, 2006

NEWS ITEM & NOTICE

Community Marine Parks and Toxic Fish protest rally RED DAY ALERT

28th Feb at Parliament House, Macquarie St, Sydney

This rally will now be a Protest March from Hyde Park North down Macquarie St to Parliament House where speakers will address the crowd and Politicians responding. This is the first day back to Parliament for the politicians in 2006.

The traffic police have sanctioned a street march from Hyde Park rather than provoke traffic outrage with boats on vehicles. Although nobody can control who drives up Macquarie St, the community rally will have Police in control of the march. A soapbox rally will then be held in front of parliament house.

Robert Smith, The Fishing Party chairman said “we anticipate gathering in Hyde Park (north) from 10.30 am and parading down Macquarie Street at 11.00am with banners, placards, signs, flags and a few loud hailers denouncing the NSW Labor Government about taking your fishing access away with senseless, emotional and unproven sanctuary zones and Marine Parks, while not addressing the real problems of poisoned fish and the environmental degradation of our waterways through mismanagement and other major state problems”.

The protest welcomes ALL concerned fishing citizens to show support. Families, people in wheel chairs who like to fish, kids, sports fishers, charter boat operators, oyster farmers, gamefishers, commercial fishers, kayakers, boaters, indigenous fishers, tackle store owners and any business who will be affected by fishing closures and polluted waterways. Even swimmers and surfboard riders who are all facing access exclusion from their recreation and business downturn need to voice their opposition to this Labor Government Green marriage for votes

The NSW Fishing Clubs Association, The Fishing Party, $%^&*, The Spearfishing Association and concerned Politicians will lead the march displaying their banners and placards down Macquarie St.

This is the communities chance to show and voice their concerns about the management of our marine resource. Come by bus or train or park down at the Domain.

For further information or if you want to address the rally please contact

Bob Smith on email: sinali@optusnet.com.au or phone 0265560338.

Robert Smith

TFP Chairman and appointed community rally co-ordinator

[clutch]

Dioxins can be quite harmful to you. As well, you can pass on this harm to your unborn children.

It has a cumulative effect in humans.

Here is a good site from the U.S. with the facts on dioxin contamination, especially in fish and ways to avoid it.

http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/dioxin.htm

Here's another fact sheet from Greenpeace on Dioxin:

http://www.greenpeace.org.au/toxics/pdfs/dioxin_facts.pdf

We should all be concerned at this kind of pollution..it aint a good thing!!!

Cheers,

Pete.

Pete, there seems to be some debate over how seriously we should take the government and the independent test results which both show very high dioxin levels in the fish

I support your realistic words of caution...

[ozeash]

Hi all,

I have, as you've all done, read of the dioxin levels in harbour fish and their effects on humans. What concerns me is -

1. Do we have anyway of knowing what levels of dioxin were prevalent in, say, the last 5 years? Grant, I sympathise with what you and family have been through, especially with the big 'c', and know that brings with it a certain degree of fatalism, but surely, not everyone will prescribe to the optimism you have.

2. What can we, as a forum, and the local government do to educate key influencers in the fishing life cycle? Take for example, bait and tackle shops, I witnessed on Sunday a bait and tackle shop owner/employee advising a customer that the dioxin levels were a whole load of crock! To me, that is worrying.

3. Finally, what can WE do to slowly but surely make this regress?

To me, as just a normal citizen like any one of you, this issue appears to have been brushed under the carpet. The commercial fishermen have been / will be compensated, but there appears to be no interest shown towards the recreational angler, fishing, what is surely one of the most magnificent harbours on earth.

I, for one, will be disappointed if this issues stays the way it is.

I look forward to your views.

Cheers,

Ash

[Guest]

The problem with this type of pollution is it is in the soil mostly and can be very expensive and hard to eradicate .The long term effects may not be know for some years to come ,which is one of my worst fears

Cheers Swordfisherman

[Guest bluecod]

Any heavily populated areas where there has been longterm industrialisation and undercontrolled landfill is going to have significant contamination. That also can be said for major agricultural areas where the use of pesticides and herbicides were heavily used post WWII. Then there were cattle dips - ground that still can't be productively used decades after they were filled in and dipping stopped.

Let's face it environmental controls in the 40's, 50's and 60's [the time of rapid development in this state] were non-existent. In the 70's we were still pouring organo-chlorines on our soldier's heads when they were meant to be protecting our way of life.

Australia was and still is used as a testing ground for agricultural chemicals produced by multinationals.

The source of dioxins and PCB's can be traced - there's just no political will as a large percentage of the harbourside and near harbourside parks were once the sites of general landfill accepting all sorts of domestic and trade waste - the cost to rehabilitate all those areas surrounding the harbour, Botany Bay, Port Kembla and Newcastle would cost $billions.

I don’t honestly expect this or subsequent governments to do anything about the long-term problem other than to limit access to these areas.

As for imported seafood, I also don't think that there is any worthwhile testing done on the imports [as distinct from testing in Japan on their imports] What Japan rejects, Aussies accept - could be very true in this instance.

[mrmoshe]

Food for thought.......... they ban the fishing in the harbour right? But where are the implementations regarding the import of Basa Fillets from Vietnam where there is no hygiene standards or authority monitoring the state of the fish there.

It seems from reading all the material on Dioxin that is a very dangerous toxin. Having said that, there are still ways to decrease the risk of poisoning in the way you prepare contaminated fish.

This was in the link I posted earlier:

Quote"

How can I reduce my exposure to dioxins?

Dioxins accumulate in fish fat, so removing skin and trimming the fat help reduce dioxin intake. People who eat large amounts of locally caught fish, or who regularly eat seafood should trim the fat and skin before cooking. Barbecuing, broiling or baking fish on an elevated rack to allow fat to drip away helps further reduce exposure to dioxins.

Unquote"

So at the very least, it may be advisable to adopt these methods before eating any fish taken from Sydney Harbour.

This Dioxin problem is not going to go away overnight and we may all have to adapt to ways of eliminating the risk from consuming seafood with any high levels of Dioxin.

The other, and probably safer way, is to catch and release ALL fish from the Harbour in the short term. That way we can still enjoy the sport of fishing, but with the knowledge that we aren't risking our lives in eating our catch.

There are plenty of other fishing grounds around Sydney that are not affected by this pollution and are safe to eat, so let's not get too scared by this relatively small scale toxic menace.

As to the imported seafood question, that's another worry. If the Federal and State Health Departments are doing their jobs, we should all feel safe in consuming these imports. But are they?

I know from speaking to my local supermarket fishmonger that they (The Govt.) test imports on a regular basis. He told me that only recently, those flavoured prawns you see on skewers for BBQing had been removed from sale after they found an "irregularity" in some samples. I notice they are back in the stores now, so let's all hope it was a minor hiccup and not something worse than that.

Cheers,

Pete.

[Guest bluecod]

I know from speaking to my local supermarket fishmonger that they (The Govt.) test imports on a regular basis.

Let's hope they do Pete!

Small marlin <75 kilo have a taste completely different to large marlin > 100kg. The large fish have a taste akin to eating fish with alfoil, whilst the smaller specimens don't have that metallic taste. It is well known that larger marlin have elevated mercury levels, but it is not uncommon to see large specimens for sale at the fish markets. Let's hope they are tested for the sake of those that eat store bought marlin regularly.

Hang on! Where's the protection for the consumer if the saleable product cannot be certified free of contaminants?