Sydney's Full Moon Kings.

[namesay]

Hi raiders. I got another kingie report!!! This one is interesting as I am doing abit of a "prefish"for the kingie social in January. Can't start early enough

The title of this report may perplex some but in my experience and in the experience of those I respect, a full moon is BAD for kings. Especially for BIG hoods. I know the jewie guys have their thoughts on the moon phases but for kings, the couple of days either side of a full moon is definitely bad. The social is NOT on a full moon!!!

However, I got out this morning and hit the ramp at Roseville at 5.30. Met our local guides Justin Duggan and no no no. Had a bit of a conference in the morning about where the kings were. All agreed that the bigger kings were inside the harbour. So first thing in the morning I did the opposite and went outside north head.

Saw salmon school upon salmon school. They were a bit tricky but finally I got them to take a berkely power minnow in white. Landed and released 4 salmon. I changed lures to a pink sluggo and allowed the lure to sink a bit. Hooked up right away on kings. These fish were small. 55-60cm. I landed 2 before deciding I had had enough. I was getting a shower from all the wind and swell!!

Hit the squidding grounds. The squid were pretty easy but the wind was picking up even more. Saw a couple of fellow raiders..Cheers boys. I think you guys have to take your clothes off before you are allowed to squid there . Once I had 7 squid in the tank, I decided to try for some of the bigger kings.

Started downrigging in Middle Harbour. There were bait schools upon bait schools . There were some kings I clearly marked on my sounder but no hits. That full moon theory was looming large. I didn't let up and trolled over and over those kings and finally one took the bait. It wasn't a big fish about 60cm and was promptly relased.

I then got a few tailer and had a couple of my squid ripped off by them. However, I had a couple of spots I wanted to try just for this type of occasion. I had previously seen the fish on the sounder and the bottom looked REAL fishy but never really tried these secondary spots- saved them for a special day.

Anyway I downrigged in spot one. Nothing, spot 2 NOthing! This was getting depressing as these areas looked very kingie! Anyway I tried spot 3 and got a hit. Was only a rat but was feeling good. Let out another bait and it got nailed by a better fish. My Torsa did its job magnificantly and I landed the fish . The water is very shallow and reefy here and my leader was badly frayed...but stayed intact! The fish was 88cm. Not a monster but respectable for Sydney.

By now time was getting on and the wind was absolutely terrible!!! Got back to the ramp and home.

A lot of raiders have been asking me about rigs and tackle. With the kingie social coming up , those who have not fished for kings before should gear up!!

There are LOTS of different types of rigs but this is how I rig them.

I use a sliding snell when downrigging and for fishing live squid at anchor. SOme people use single hooks but I prefer a double. The red tube is the stuff you use for whiting fishing. I only have this to protect my leader from being cut off when a BIG king takes both hooks. The eye on most hooks has a sharp edge and as the "tow" hook slides down rapidly at strike, the edge on the eye of the hook will cut your leader real quick. Believe me ....I know.

If you use a hook with a down turned eye like a suicide or a french then the tube is not needed but is recommended to stop wear on your leader. If you plan to troll or downrig then a straight hook is an absolute. Can't have off set hooks as it WILL make your squid spin. A spinning squid is as appealing as a prostitute with syphilis . For drifting and anchoring it is OK. I normally use 7/0 gammakatsu live bait hooks as a tow hook.

The second or "stinger" hook can be offset but it is better if it is straight. I prefer a single hook of between 6/0-8/0. Also gammakatsu live bait especially when targeting the large HOODS or a gammie circle hook for my children. But when the fish are finnicky or small I change to a treble. I use the 4X Owner stinger trebles in size 1-2/0 depending on the size of the bait. The bigger the hook the better the hookup.

The mustad hoodlum hooks are great and are cheaper than the Japanese hooks but they are tin coated and do not rust as quickly as the gammies. If you do lose a fish to a bust off you want them to recover as quickly as possible so I avoid the tin coated hooks if I can.

My peferred leader material is 40-80lb fluorocarbon. Just be careful with this stuff if you are new as some have appalling knot strength especially in the strengths used for kingfish. I use crimps for these hard to knot leaders but I normally use seaguar for its knottability. A dab of super glue is a good back up.

By the way if you are really serious about catching kings on a regular basis, most reels especially won't stand up to the constant heavy drag settings and the punishment dished out by even the small kings. SPend a little more and get good gear and it will look after you. Don't want to lose a fish of a lifetime due to crappy gear. My stella and torsa have been fault free. My torsa in the last 2 1/2 weeks has caught me close to 35 fish. The BEST Reel for downrigging ever made! Full stop.

Anyway these are some tips for you potential kingie fishermen out there.....the social is only WEEKS away! CHeers Kelvin

Edited December 7, 2006 by namesay

[mottyman]

Geez, somebody get me a "Doctor" - reading all your king reports is giving me heart failure

You're the king and so are the fish.

Cheers

David.

[namesay]

I won't be giving you mouth to mouth...know too much what is in there!!. Cheers Kelvin

[Little_Flatty]

I won't be giving you mouth to mouth...know too much what is in there!!. Cheers Kelvin

Too much detail there fellas

Nice fish!

[Guest Aron]

So you place the red tube on the line and through the hook of the towing hook then you tie the hook to the plastic tube (the hook is not tied to the main line) - is that correct?

I understand now why you and netic use the tube

What knot do you use to tie the hook to the tube- what kg line do you use - looks thin?

with the turned out eye - that helps the hook hold position on the main line when trolling baits and easy to adjust for different sized baits.

Thanks for the tips - going to Pittwater Friday - weather looking good - got the downrigger sorted - now where did i put those squid jigs............

[namesay]

So you place the red tube on the line and through the hook of the towing hook then you tie the hook to the plastic tube (the hook is not tied to the main line) - is that correct?

I understand now why you and netic use the tube

What knot do you use to tie the hook to the tube- what kg line do you use - looks thin?

with the turned out eye - that helps the hook hold position on the main line when trolling baits and easy to adjust for different sized baits.

Thanks for the tips - going to Pittwater Friday - weather looking good - got the downrigger sorted - now where did i put those squid jigs............

The towing hook is not tied to the leader but the leader is threaded through the eye. Can't find a hook that has a down turned eye and is not off set so use the tube to protect my leader.

I use 20lb mono to tie my towing hook. ONly because I have lots of it. Also use a common snell knot. Pretty easy once you see how it works. Cheers Kelvin

[Guest Aron]

The towing hook is not tied to the leader but the leader is threaded through the eye. Can't find a hook that has a down turned eye and is not off set so use the tube to protect my leader.

I use 20lb mono to tie my towing hook. ONly because I have lots of it. Also use a common snell knot. Pretty easy once you see how it works. Cheers Kelvin

Thanks!

[big_steve]

GREAT effort none the less kelvin

WELL DONE MATE..

GREAT tips there also mate

ur knowledge on kings is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE

steve

[Luringbream]

Well done mate!! He's almost a hoodlum!

Did the tailor have any size to them?

I understand the rig you use but now how to you actualli rig the squid? The first hook through the head and the towing hook through the top of the mantle or do you hook the towing hook through the mantle and leave the first free?

Also is the point of the hook exposed? I'd imagine that the squid would die out pretty quick with 2 exposed hooks??

Thanks in advance..

DAN

[netic]

Well done Kelvin,

Great info there mate, That report should be placed in the articles section

[namesay]

Like this.

Squid are not like other live baits. They are very fragile. but it really doesn't matter if the squid is dead. A freshly dead squid is just as good. They all turn into kingie crap!!! CHeers Kelvin

P.S I don't count tailer as fish!!! ON the gear for kingfish ,catching a tailer is like dragging in a bit of weed. They were about 40cm long.

Edited December 6, 2006 by namesay

[Luringbream]

Thanks for that..much appreciated

Yea whenever i've tried to put a live squid on it didnt last long at all, it died before it got to the water most times. So like you said, ill just stick to the fresh dead squid.

DAN

[namesay]

Thanks for that..much appreciated

Yea whenever i've tried to put a live squid on it didnt last long at all, it died before it got to the water most times. So like you said, ill just stick to the fresh dead squid.

DAN

Just becareful with dead squid as they SPIN!!! You must place the hooks DEAD CENTRE. Often you will get air in the squid as they fill up with air when they die or about to die. You can see it as a bubble inside the mantle. You got to get this out or the kings will just laugh at your spinning squid. Just puncture it withyour hook and give it a bit of a squeeze and you should be OK.

ALso don't rig the squid upside down like 445F did last time we were out. This also makes them spin and the kingies will ignore it.. The shank of the tow hook should be on the UNDER side of the squid.See the photo. CHeers Kelvin

Another thing with dead squid is that no matter how it is rigged, if you troll too fast it will spin. ALways check the bait next to the boat before you set it out. A live squid spins far less so they are OK.Cheers Kelvin

Edited December 6, 2006 by namesay

[ophet]

Just becareful with dead squid as they SPIN!!! You must place the hooks DEAD CENTRE. Often you will get air in the squid as they fill up with air when they die or about to die. You can see it as a bubble inside the mantle. You got to get this out or the kings will just laugh at your spinning squid. Just puncture it withyour hook and give it a bit of a squeeze and you should be OK.

ALso don't rig the squid upside down like 445F did last time we were out. This also makes them spin and the kingies will ignore it.. The shank of the tow hook should be on the UNDER side of the squid.See the photo. CHeers Kelvin

Another thing with dead squid is that no matter how it is rigged, if you troll too fast it will spin. ALways check the bait next to the boat before you set it out. A live squid spins far less so they are OK.Cheers Kelvin

Full, half or no moon, I think you would be able to catch a King in any conditions Kelvin. I would think Kings are less particular about eating times during tides, current and moons - then the Jewfish.

Well done on another excellent session, I look forward to reading about a session when you do NOT catch a fish. Would be good to hear about what you try and your theories on why they are not on. I won't hold my breath for this report.

I was testing you, when I rigged the squid the wrong way up. I think it was your turn on the strike

PS - I don't think you need to pump up people any more for the social, your usual reports get people going. Keep the tutorials coming, we'll all be graduates of the Kelvin and Netic Kingy university soon.

Edited December 6, 2006 by 445F

[namesay]

Full, half or no moon, I think you would be able to catch a King in any conditions Kelvin. I would think Kings are less particular about eating times during tides, current and moons - then the Jewfish.

Well done on another excellent session, I look forward to reading about a session when you do NOT catch a fish. Would be good to hear about what you try and your theories on why they are not on. I won't hold my breath for this report.

I was testing you, when I rigged the squid the wrong way up. I think it was your turn on the strike

PS - I don't think you need to pump up people any more for the social, your usual reports get people going. Keep the tutorials coming, we'll all be graduates of the Kelvin and Netic Kingy university soon.

DEfinitely kings are less sensitive to moon and tides than jews. But the phases of the moon does have bearing for me atleast. WHenever you have a hot session just check the moon phase and you can build up or tear up this theory.

In places like MH where there is little or no tidal current,the tide doesn't seem to matter. The water was very brown in MH yesterday due to the BIG tides and a bit of rain.

That was a good test 445F with the upside down squid!! Did I pass? CHeers KElvin

[inked]

another awesome report Kelvin. Thanks heaps for all the info on tackle and rigging!

[starclassix]

You truly are the king of kings....

I salute you!

[gone_wishin]

Hi Namesay / Netic, what size ball do you use on your downrigger? I remember reading somewhere that you had a few different sizes but which is the most common that you use in MH?

Also I get the message - troll slowly, what is the maximum knots that you would troll at / recommend?

Thanks heaps for all the information you guys are giving us mortals, I think at the social you will be like the pied piper with all us rats following you!

[Mondo Rock]

Hi Kelvin

Your sliding snell looks slightly different to the one I've learned from Geoff Wilson's book of knots. The sliding snell in his book is wrapped around the shank of the hook five or so times before the leader is threaded through and then wrapped another five or so times to create the sliding snell. It looks from your photo that you don't bother to wrap the shank of the hook seperately, but simply snell the hook and the leader (and the tubing) all in one go. Is this correct?

I hope this makes sense. As I said in another thread it takes me a really long time to tie a sliding snell and I'm looking for any handy hints that would help cut down on that.

And while I'm asking knot questions - can you tell me what knot you use to tie the trailing hook on? I always have trouble given the thickness of the leader material and have tried several. I've never had one fail, but I think that's mainly because I haven't really caught a fish on any of those rigs yet (got a few shovelies and rays fishing for jewies off the beach but that's it)!!

And once again - thanks fot all the info. You really are generous with all your hard-earned knowledge.

[SPARKY]

Great report as usual Kelvin

And thanks for the tips for catching kingies

However can u supply some tips on how and where to catch those dammmm Squid?

I have tried several times and numerous spots for NADA.

It’s obviously me, so have u got some pics of your Jigs and how to set them up.

Sparky

[insolent]

Thanks for the report and the rigging tips, I've been practising my sliding snells and almost have them downpat thanks to some instructions from Dan A. Looking forward to getting out and hammering some kings (or getting hammered by them).

Evil

[namesay]

Hi Kelvin

Your sliding snell looks slightly different to the one I've learned from Geoff Wilson's book of knots. The sliding snell in his book is wrapped around the shank of the hook five or so times before the leader is threaded through and then wrapped another five or so times to create the sliding snell. It looks from your photo that you don't bother to wrap the shank of the hook seperately, but simply snell the hook and the leader (and the tubing) all in one go. Is this correct?

I hope this makes sense. As I said in another thread it takes me a really long time to tie a sliding snell and I'm looking for any handy hints that would help cut down on that.

And while I'm asking knot questions - can you tell me what knot you use to tie the trailing hook on? I always have trouble given the thickness of the leader material and have tried several. I've never had one fail, but I think that's mainly because I haven't really caught a fish on any of those rigs yet (got a few shovelies and rays fishing for jewies off the beach but that's it)!!

And once again - thanks fot all the info. You really are generous with all your hard-earned knowledge.

The knot shown in G wilson's book is OK but not suitable for trolling. Not to mention complicating what is a rather simple process. I have tried MANY different methods and this is the most reliable and simplest method. As you have noted I don't bother with the wraps on the shank of the hook, Just makes it harder to tie. I use about 15 -20 turns around the hook,leader and tubing. DOne in seconds!

As for knots I only use uni knots on fluorocarbon. For me other knots slip badly but choose your leader material carefully. Nylon mono leaders generally tie beautiful knots. Fluorocarbon can be a real pain especially from 30lb up. Lots of fish are lost due to slipping fluorocarbon knots. Seaguar is the best for me as it ties beautifully reliable knots. Cheers Kelvin

[netic]

HI Kelvin,

What are you using more of these days for your leader hooks...Trebles or Circles/Live bait Hooks??

[namesay]

Hi Namesay / Netic, what size ball do you use on your downrigger? I remember reading somewhere that you had a few different sizes but which is the most common that you use in MH?

Also I get the message - troll slowly, what is the maximum knots that you would troll at / recommend?

Thanks heaps for all the information you guys are giving us mortals, I think at the social you will be like the pied piper with all us rats following you!

I like to use the lightest bomb that I can get away with. It sometimes means I use a 3lb bomb. I carry several bombs from 3-10lb. The 10lb bomb rarely gets a swim on my boat. Typcially I use the 5 or 7 lb the most.

As for trolling speed, stay below 2 knots. Any faster with squid as bait and the squid will spin or be ripped off the hooks.

I just hope at the social it is not the RAT kings that are following me!!!Cheers Kelvin

HI Kelvin,

What are you using more of these days for your leader hooks...Trebles or Circles/Live bait Hooks??

Good question. WHen I have a BIG bait I go straight for my 8/0 gammie live bait hooks. If the baits are small then it is the owner trebles. For my kids it is normally circles or trebles.

Gave the trebles a real go in the last month and a bit as you and peter use them all the time but had a few hooks pull on some BIG HOODS. So now when I am targeting the hoods it is back to the singles. Better hook up on bigger fish.Cheers Kelvin

[Luringbream]

Just becareful with dead squid as they SPIN!!! You must place the hooks DEAD CENTRE. Often you will get air in the squid as they fill up with air when they die or about to die. You can see it as a bubble inside the mantle. You got to get this out or the kings will just laugh at your spinning squid. Just puncture it withyour hook and give it a bit of a squeeze and you should be OK.

ALso don't rig the squid upside down like 445F did last time we were out. This also makes them spin and the kingies will ignore it.. The shank of the tow hook should be on the UNDER side of the squid.See the photo. CHeers Kelvin

Another thing with dead squid is that no matter how it is rigged, if you troll too fast it will spin. ALways check the bait next to the boat before you set it out. A live squid spins far less so they are OK.Cheers Kelvin

Thanks for that Kelvin. Great tips and great knowledge, you really know your stuff!!

One of the reasons that i have had troubles keeping squid alive is because i get them in deep water, but i'd imagine that shallow water squid would last alot longer as live bait.

Any pointers on how shallow you fish for squid and how close to shore?

DAN