Are 4-stroke Manufacturers Getting Worried?

[ETTY]

A recent test of the Evinrude E-TEC 115hp and the Yamaha 4 Stroke 115hp has resulted in Yamaha in releasing a statement on the validity of BRP 's (Bombadier Recreational Products - owner of Evinrude) test.

Although not knowing enough on the actual test itself I have found the statement interesting.

Has Evinrude outsmarted the 4 Stroke market with the engine efficency advances and the statement from Yamaha Motor Corp. a shot at BRP as Yamaha have been beaten at their game and to avoid utter embarrassment they released this statement or was the test unfairly run (I am interested in how this could be done both technically and legally)?

Heres the statement so you can make your own mind up. I'd like to hear what your opinion on the issue is!

STATEMENT FROM YAMAHA-MOTOR re: BRP E-TEC vs 4-STROKE TECHNOLOGY “TEST”

DATE: 11-Dec-2006

A recent media conference hosted by Bombardier Recreational Products (BRP) involved a demonstration of an Evinrude E-TEC 115hp model and a Yamaha Four Stroke 115hp fitted a Haines Hunter hull as a twin rig installation.

Under the BRP controlled demonstration, BRP sought to highlight the superiority of E-TEC technology over and above that of 4 stroke outboard technology and Yamaha in particular.

While the Yamaha product was used for the test, Yamaha was not consulted nor did the company have any involvement whatsoever in the rigging or set up of the Yamaha F115 engine.

Yamaha-Motor challenges BRP's sincerity in this test before the media.

If BRP is truly committed to demonstrating the alleged superior performance of their E-TEC technology over 4 stroke outboards, then they could have selected their own Bombardier manufactured Johnson 115hp 4 stroke outboard for the test.

Both outboards are BRP products and both are rated at 115hp. Perhaps then, the results might have been much more plausible?

On the one hand BRP is denigrating across the board, all four stroke technology. Yet BRP sells the Johnson line of 4 stroke outboards across 16 separate horsepower brackets from 2.5hp to 225hp. These engines are sold in the Australian market by BRP appointed and authorised dealers.

What message is BRP telegraphing to their Johnson customers in Australia who have bought or about to take delivery of the BRP Johnson four stroke outboards?

We also understand BRP has distributed test data on boats presented to the press on the media day… with the exception of the twin rig. We at Yamaha find it very interesting that BRP are prepared to present this type of activity to the press but then don"t back up the exercise with factual information.

We would like to see this data as presented by BRP and are left wondering why they choose not to make this information public.

Taken from: http://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/hot_news/in...news_detail.asp (14/12/2006)

[Flightmanager]

This argument has been raging in the States since the film clip was released. There has been a lot of talk of " Dirty Tricks" , legal action and the Boating Forums have been running hot with this topic. If you are in the market for one of these engines , the ideal thing would be to run each motor on the boat , and come to your own conclusions. Sadly , this aint about to happen in a hurry!!

As far as I have been able to discern , none of the allegations against Eveinrude have been proved conclusively.

Ross

[namesay]

For me the outboard manufacturers battling it out makes for better product and sharper prices. So let them haggle it out! Yamaha are the market leaders and Bombardier are recent up starts. Yamaha have proven technology , Evinrude has so far unproven technology. Depending on who you listen to they are both right.

Bombardier has no automotive links so don't offer 4 strokes. Most other manufacturers with 4 stroke technology have also an automotive link. By the way Johnson are rebadged Suzukis. Having said that Yamaha also have direct injection 2 stroke engines like Evinrude in their V max range so they have the market covered.

The only problem with 2 strokes is that no matter what they still burn OIL. I have a 4 stroke yamaha. So far so good...runs on an oily rag. Cheers Kelvin

[Geoff]

For me the outboard manufacturers battling it out makes for better product and sharper prices. So let them haggle it out

This is sound logic however , the other aspect can be , the larger the product range the lower the production runs & this could hold prices higher so if companies like Yammie make both 4s & 2s then their actual product range is double.

The counter argument to that is , that if an outboard company only produce either 2s or 4s then it is fair to say their overall sales would be lower than producing both.

Catch 22

Back to the topic , I think there will be rationalation over the next 5 - 10 years partly for the reasons mentioned above. Also , I think the long term reliabilty & maintance cost of 4s is still to be proven.

How many of us drive our cars at 3500rpm - 5000rpm for long periods of time

If we go back into the the early 90's Honda found a nich in the market with their 4s motors. Perhaps others passed this off as a passing fad but as the interest grew in 4s companies like Yamaha had to make a decission , " if we can't beat them , let's join them "

In other words , I suspect the 2s manufacturs were pushed into 4s.

In reflection it may have been smarter to produce an "E Tec" style motor but that is now water under the bridge

Where it ends , only time will tell but think E Tec is on the right track , they only need to get their cost down so they are a competitive alternative to the standard 2s motor

Geoff

[macka17]

For me the outboard manufacturers battling it out makes for better product and sharper prices. So let them haggle it out

This is sound logic however , the other aspect can be , the larger the product range the lower the production runs & this could hold prices higher so if companies like Yammie make both 4s & 2s then their actual product range is double.

The counter argument to that is , that if an outboard company only produce either 2s or 4s then it is fair to say their overall sales would be lower than producing both.

Catch 22

Back to the topic , I think there will be rationalation over the next 5 - 10 years partly for the reasons mentioned above. Also , I think the long term reliabilty & maintance cost of 4s is still to be proven.

How many of us drive our cars at 3500rpm - 5000rpm for long periods of time

If we go back into the the early 90's Honda found a nich in the market with their 4s motors. Perhaps others passed this off as a passing fad but as the interest grew in 4s companies like Yamaha had to make a decission , " if we can't beat them , let's join them "

In other words , I suspect the 2s manufacturs were pushed into 4s.

In reflection it may have been smarter to produce an "E Tec" style motor but that is now water under the bridge

Where it ends , only time will tell but think E Tec is on the right track , they only need to get their cost down so they are a competitive alternative to the standard 2s motor

Geoff

Hi.

I reckon the Hi Tech 2 stroke is the way to go. I have Optimax 90. on 5.25 stacer....

Mates have similar sized boats/Weights..

So far. on the long trips..100plus km and more. The Opti, is noisier. faster. and drinks LESS juice than any of the others. 4 stroke. and E'Tec.. Uses virtually no oil, and as smooth as.. Trolls all day on nothing...

Uses 35/ 40% LESS juice than mates Yammy 85 on same trips.. (He's pissed)

Servicing costs similar, to 4 str,. But.. When it comes to more than that...2 stroke is 2 stroke. and 4's are 4's.. Lots more bits to replace. Fuel systems are both complex. Both expensive. so that levels that side of it.....

Time will tell.

They'll never be on costing levels with std 2 strokes though. Much more expense in manufacturing....... Mainly fuel systems....

Regards All

Macka17

[a boat]

Hi, I was at the dealer conference and spent a fair bit of time in the Haines 650 Classic that had the E-TEC and Yamaha on it. For what it is worth boat engines were propped correctly, in that with both engines running they both reached 6000 RPM, in fact the Yamaha was hitting the rev limiter. With the E-TEC trimmed up there was no way the boat was going to plane with 5 guys in it, but when we ran the boat only with the E-TEC the boat got on the plane, it did take about 200 metres, but once it got it on the plane it did a comfortable cruise speed. Why BRP did not use there own Johnson/Suzuki 4-Stroke was because Yamaha claim to be the market leader and so they went after them. I personally think no bodies 4-Stroke would of got that boat on the plane by itself and we also sell 4-Strokes and I have run hundreds of them. Also at low speed the E-TEC was just as quiet as the 4-Stoke and in fact with only the 4-Stroke running the boat with its SST rod rack and outriggers had an annoying vibration, this could of only been an issue with this particular boat, but I can only comment on what we experienced.

As to comments about proven technology, to say a 4-Stroke outboard, that really has only been out for about 10 years has proven itself over 2-Stroke outboards that have been around since 1913 is a bit wrong. Also the direct injection technology in outboards has been out for about as long as 4-Stroke outboards have been made in any great numbers, so I think it is fair to say that both technologies have proven themselves. Also the comment about 2-Strokes burning oil, yes they do BUT it is accounted for in the 3 star emission rating that the E-TEC has, that can not be said for the 4-Stroke side of the fence. Where does the used 4-Stroke oil go.The 4-Strokes outboards are lucky that they do not have to prove that it is dispose of in a environmently sound way. Also please do not think that 4-Strokes do not burn oil, they do, espescially in an situation where they spend alot of time at high RPM like on the back of a boat.

I personally prefer an E-TEC and we recomend them to all of our customers and the facts are that we could also sell them a 4-Stroke and in truth make more money from that customer in servicing. So every E-TEC we recomend and sell we do ourselves out of about $1200, but we just do not like 4-Stroke outboards, that being said, I am sure there is many people that will disagree with me, but we have over 45 years of expericne in the marine game and have driven more boats with 4-Strokes and E-TEC on the back than I have had roast dinners.

Just my 2 cents worth,

Cheers,

Huey.

[BUSTER 1]

Huey well said ,and when I buy my next engine it will be an ETEC and i will come and see you

[madasacutsnake]

Well said Huey, I spent months comparing everything and was certain I would end up with a yami four stroke but the etec just made more sense and everyone I know with one is very happy.

Stallo

[Shark Bait]

I wanted a yanaha 4 stroke bubut bought an E-Tec cause it made more sense to me. A 4 stroke must cost you $7.50 an hour for the first 100 hours just in servicing. That's before you put fuel in it. Even trolling. Each to their own.

[Guest johblow]

When i was down at the ramp the other day this bloke came in with a 40hp 4 stoke, so it was rather small compared to the one you guys are talking about, and the thing that i noticed was that it was just so damn quiet. Right then and there, i said to myself that my next outboard would be a 4 stroke, but if that (quietness) is the only plus, then id have to re-think another 2 stroke, based on this discussion? i could see myself falling in love with the peace and quite. It seems to be a personal thing. I have to say id be happy with either, in reality!!

For example, i used to fly model planes, and there were these dudes that used 4 strokes - they sound great - authentic - but being small motors the power losses of operating the pushrods/valves really takes a toll. So the 2 strokes really perform better. But for sound, the 4 strokes are great.

Cheers, Jon

[Flightmanager]

If you get the chance , listen to some of the new generation of 2 strokes , they are much quieter than their older brothers (sisters) .

Ross

[joerod]

Hi All,

I've got a 115 Etec and sometimes I have to go to the back of the boat to make sure it is running, That is how quiet they are.

Won't go past the Etec.