Ban On Live Bait

[kenmare]

Hi Fishraiders,

Food for thought?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...07/nangle07.xml

Regards,

Bob

[zrealist]

Hi Fishraiders,

Food for thought?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...07/nangle07.xml

Regards,

Bob

I think their live bait ban is more aimed at fresh water angling to prevent the spread of alien species.

[johnno]

silly i think

[Guest dicko1]

wat a pack of friggin idiots

[dazzassj6]

of course fish feels pain, dont need a scientist to prove that. The stupid thing is the live bait fish is getting chased and eaten by the large fishes anyways. We are just speeding up the process thats all! The bloody politicians probably hasnt even went fishing before. In the ocean its all about survival of the fittest its all about the big fish eating the lil fish there is nothing wrong with that. Think about indigenous ways of catching fish. They use all sorts of methods.

We humans are just outsmarting the fishes all part of the food chain thats wat i think

[DaveD]

Pathetic. The fish is going to die anyway, we're just feeding them to others in a much quicker process and hopefully getting something for our own good.

[johnno]

i bet they would say

well if they get eaten they get eaten

putting a hook through them is not the circle of life.

this is not my thoughts

i use live bait

[Davy]

Livies->big fish->we eat big fish

I think some people have forgotten fish is food

Cheers

Davy

[caine]

i always punish any evil big fish thats eats my poor cute little live bait

by ripping out his gills and snapping his neck then feeding him to my vietnamese inlaws!!

greenies are out of control in the uk, they turn up in force at fox hunting events and have been known to perform acts of terrorism against companies that do animal testing

[fishguts]

gits i tell ya! dragging fish up from the depths is not cruel???? (suffocation)

these greens better not open a tin of tuna or salmon! SHAME.

i'm gonna eat a nice big fillet now, and then go for some poddy's

the lizards are on in the lake!

..stevo!..

[mcownage]

Thats rediculous the next thing you know they wont want us fishing at all it might cause the fish too much stress and pain before you violently cut its throut and guts out and cook it on the barbie...They take things too far its a fish eat fish world and then we eat the winners

[Little_Flatty]

I dunno guys...I haven't used live bait for quite a few years now so the idea kind of freaks me out these days. I'm not really opposed to it I just feel strange using live bait so I don't do it anymore.

I wonder if the lure companies are in on this?

[Robert Brown]

Thats rediculous the next thing you know they wont want us fishing at all it might cause the fish too much stress and pain before you violently cut its throut and guts out and cook it on the barbie...They take things too far its a fish eat fish world and then we eat the winners

Don't laugh too loud boys. PETA has just set up in Australia. Voiceless has about $1m pa to use against all animal ( and fish) users.

Sort of reminds me of 1993.... ban on duck hunting in WA, 1995.... ban on duck hunting in NSW, 2006.... ban on duck hunting in QLD. All on the basis of cruelty.

Don't forget, just prior to the intro of fishing licences, HSI International were all set to mount a case under POCTA ( Prevention of Cruelty to Animals), against the young lady from Bermagui that set a new light line record for Marlin. They didn't go ahead.... but the thought was there.

For a number of years I sat on the Government's AWAC ( Animal Welfare Advisory Committee) as a hunting representative. I guess the isssue of "fish feel pain" probably came up on at least a dozen occasions. They operate ( AWAC) in every state... and at aFederal level

These Animal Lib wackos are just as dedicated as you - probably more so. They sometimes use petrol bombs to make their point.

Ignore their creeping influence at your collective peril.

Robert

[barrykrocker]

dthdfgsdf]

Edited March 29, 2007 by barrykrocker

[fishguts]

Don't laugh too loud boys. PETA has just set up in Australia. Voiceless has about $1m pa to use against all animal ( and fish) users.

Sort of reminds me of 1993.... ban on duck hunting in WA, 1995.... ban on duck hunting in NSW, 2006.... ban on duck hunting in QLD. All on the basis of cruelty.

Don't forget, just prior to the intro of fishing licences, HSI International were all set to mount a case under POCTA ( Prevention of Cruelty to Animals), against the young lady from Bermagui that set a new light line record for Marlin. They didn't go ahead.... but the thought was there.

For a number of years I sat on the Government's AWAC ( Animal Welfare Advisory Committee) as a hunting representative. I guess the isssue of "fish feel pain" probably came up on at least a dozen occasions. They operate ( AWAC) in every state... and at aFederal level

These Animal Lib wackos are just as dedicated as you - probably more so. They sometimes use petrol bombs to make their point.

Ignore their creeping influence at your collective peril.

Robert

hi! do vegetables feel pain during harvest, i like vegies with my fillets!

..only serious replies will be unanswered!

..stevo!..

[Robert Brown]

hi! do vegetables feel pain during harvest, i like vegies with my fillets!

..only serious replies will be unanswered!

..stevo!..

Hi Steve...

I do believe I heard an artichoke squeal once.....

Robert

[fishguts]

Hi Steve...

I do believe I heard an artichoke squeal once.....

Robert

[namesay]

We have marine parks and now THIS???

If we aren't careful the lunatics will have their way. I think it is inevitable that something like this will be aired here in Australia. ONly a matter of time. Just need to be preapred!!! Take ALL your kids out fishing so that we have a MASSIVE number of addicted "next" generation fishos and we can defend our rights. Cheers Kelvin

[clutch]

of course fish feels pain, dont need a scientist to prove that.

What makes you think that fish feel pain? I'm not so sure, and I tend to think not

[Grantm]

Ive never really understood the problem. The same hook that goes through the live bait will be going through the mouth of the fish you are catching. Whats the difference ? You cant ban live baiting but allow normal line fishing.

PETA are screwballs. Powerfull screwballs though. Keep an eye out.

I dont give a stuff anyway. I will always live bait if a want to, im not going to be dictated to by imbiciles.

Hey Clutch, I agree. If I had a hook in my mouth Id be in such pain that everyone would know. I ve seen those Bream swimming around in the Shimano tank at comps with hooks hanging out of them and they act no different to any other fish. If they were in pain they would be noticably different in their actions but hey arent.

[catchnrelease]

of course fish feels pain, dont need a scientist to prove that.

What makes you think that fish feel pain? I'm not so sure, and I tend to think not

The reason scientists are divided on the pain issue is because the "cortex" is the part of the brain in animals that recognises pain. Fish, however, do not have a "cortex", or even a part of the brain that acts as the "cortex" and therefore do not feel pain, or at least this is what we believe.

Good thing I personally think fish do not feel pain, so no guilt for me!

HOWEVER! This is still not an excuse to be cruel to fish and letting them die slowly or by a stress related death. Live baiting is the limit for me, but keeping a fish out of water and letting it flap about to die is malicious and cruel. Put it out of its misery quickly, and although many of you raiders do it, there are still some d*ckheads around that just leave fish to die slowly and cruely.

Fish do feel things however through the laterosensory pores found on their body (head and nose mostly), but this is probably recognised from pressure waves and electical impulses** sent from fish to fish. But no pain...we think.

This is why I believe fish spaz out when taken out of water...their method of feeling is shoved into overdrive and thrown out of wack by the change from water to atmosphere and us physically touching them.

Have your noticed some people handle great whites by pushing them on the nose...when the shark approaches the person pushes their nose (which has most of the laterosensory pores) and throws the whole nervous system out of wack, and the shark just rears up and sinks back in the water, not trying to bite the person at all.

Just a bit of biology from school, books and TV.

** Again I think that's it but will check it up. Some sort of wave or impulse.

Edited April 16, 2007 by catchnrelease

[clutch]

The reason scientists are divided on the pain issue is because the "cortex" is the part of the brain in animals that recognises pain. Fish, however, do not have a "cortex", or even a part of the brain that acts as the "cortex" and therefore do not feel pain, or at least this is what we believe.

Wow, thanks for your informative response CnR

I did a google search and was amazed to see many of the results suggested that fish can feel pain.

Of course very little of their research was fact based rather supposition that some of the receptors in their brain could feel pain by comparing them with that of human receptors. I think our brain is a tad more complex than that of a fish.......

Like you said much talk was about the neo-cortex

Another query posed was whether or not they had a consciousness or not....are they aware of what they are doing or is it all instinct.

All instinct and no pain is my opinion

Ps forgot to add that I hope everything is well with you and recent Baby GrantM

Edited April 16, 2007 by clutch

[Mondo Rock]

Clutch - I recently read a book by Dr Carl where he addressed a bunch of general questions, one of which was 'do fish feel pain'. His answer admitted that the jury is still out, but he referred to evidence conducted on trout whereby bee venom was injected into their lips in a controlled experiment to observe whether their behavior changed.

Unfortunately the 'injected' trout's behaviour (supposedly) changed markedly, with many swimming with their heads down in the gravel rubbing their lips along the seabed. When an anathetic was injected they went back to swimming normally.

Dr Carl did not extrapolate from this that all fish definitively feel pain, but he did surmise that it is likely that at least trout were complex enough to feel pain and react accordingly.

So I think we're probably kidding ourselves if we pretend that fish do not feel pain as a result of angling activities.

Whether we care or not is another matter.

[clutch]

So I think we're probably kidding ourselves if we pretend that fish do not feel pain as a result of angling activities.

With all due respect I'll keep my own opinion on this issue Mondo

I did read some of Dr Carls study on some 20 trout.... it could be that using anescetic on fish makes them rub their mouths in gravel couldnt it?

I reckon I've probably had more experience with fish than Mr Carl so I reckon no pain

[Mondo Rock]

I did read some of Dr Carls study on some 20 trout.... it could be that using anescetic on fish makes them rub their mouths in gravel couldnt it?

Could be - except that the use of anaethetic was what stopped them from rubbing their lips on the gravel. It was the bee venom that caused it.

I'm not claiming to be any sort of scientist Clutch, nor do I believe that the experiments described by Dr Carl are conclusive. However, with all due respect, I don't think it's a logically defensible position to maintain that fish feel no pain in the face of scientific study that suggests they might.

But hey - I'm a fisherman and I use live bait often. The idea that fish feel pain in no way implies to me that they are a complex enough organism for that pain to result in any 'cruelty', so to speak.

And, as you rightly note, there is always the chance that the scientists are wrong!!