netic Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 (edited) Hey guys.... some time ago you may remember that i ran some tests on different types of braid and some were good and others were bad.... after all the tests i ran i came to the conclusion that most of the heavier stuff was crap except for the PE 8 weave braids...... SO after reading up on Jap jigging sites researching the best braids, 3 brands were on the list to spool up my heavy kingy outfit. 1. YFK Jigman PE 8 weave 2. Daiwa Sensor braid SW 3. VARIVAS AVANI GT All these brands were raved about but the VARIVAS AVANI GT was said to be the best by far but at well over $300 for a spool overseas it seemed like over kill so i went with the Jigman mainly because it came in 600 metre spools as opposed to the Daiwa sensor which only came in 300 metres. When i first got my Jigman 70lb braid i rigged it up and tested its breaking strain.......... I ran a plaited doubled then use an improved allbright to 60lb leader...... tested it and it rated past 25kg without breaking which was awesome.... anyways since then i have use the outfit ten or so times...... Yesterday Sal was over and he said lets run some more tests on your braid...... we tried it again with the same plait and allbright and guess what.....broke at 14kg Tied another plaited double and 14 kg again..........it was breaking on the single line mm's before the plait.... we did this many times and it broke at 14kg everytime without fail...so obviously as the jigman got exposed to saltwater it weakened somehow...... we tried singles to mono....straight braid to swivel...you name it we tried it and it all failed at 14kg... With all faith lost in my braid i took the whole lot off the spool and now im braidless on my outfit..... I then called Kelvin and got his thoughts and he said that he hasnt got faith in the Jigman either and that he uses Daiwa sensor braid SW only and it serves him well..... so i called Crazy JOhn who has a Stella 20000 with Daiwa Sensor braid 60lb and i asked him to bring it over to run tests...... His 60ld braid was breaking at 19kg....much better then my Jigman but still not perfect.....we did a few different rigs and his outfit always broke at 19kg...... So the issues of braid breaking below its rating still continues on the top brands also....... Now i know people are gonna say "my braid is good" but if you would like to bring it past i can show you how good it is......chck and recheck your braid so you truly know how much you can lock up your outfits.... from what i can see the older/thicker braids are good its the newer thinner stuff that is no good.... just to let you know i have now gone with the VARIVAS AVANI GT in 100lb..........cost me more then a new twinpower though so the is gonna go crazy Edited August 27, 2007 by netic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy0884 Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 (edited) hi Oz, Well done for doing the research and actually getting the facts first hand. Personally i have tried many braids and have found the following to be true. The thinner the braid for the stated breaking strain the lower the knot strength, lower the abrasion resistance and the shorter the life. i have been using FINS PRT braid on all of my outfits that run line 20lb and higher, in particular i have had two spools in regular use for over 18 months with almost no loss of colour, performance or reliability. One spool of 20lb on my baitrunner and another spool of 30lb on my tekota. They are used more frequently than any other combo i have and have more than proven themselves, my biggest problem is that it DOESNT break when i snag up bottom bouncing because 40lb leader can sometimes be near impossible to break. Yes it is much thicker than Nitlon, Jigman etc, but it performs! ties excellent knots too.. CFD will also attest to the performance of FINS, he has had a spool of 20lb on his charter special longer than i have known him! another horror story includes some Pioneer 'tuna terror' braid that actually began rotting on the spool . As for the lighter braids, i go for the 8 weave linesystems "bass hard".. i have had a nighmare in the past when i strayed from the humble but stiff fireline. i tried fins but it was too thick, i tried Nitlon and i couldnt tie a knot without it breaking, i also had a few light duty failures with the nitlon stuff. Finally, after nearly going back to fireline, Tony convinced me to try the bass hard, which is an extremely tight weave braid thats not too stiff (fireline) and not too limp (nitlon).. i have been totally satisfied with it and now run it on both of my twin powers in 6 and 15lb. Edited August 27, 2007 by Sammy0884 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyt Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 the bass hard is great stuff it doesnt have that wet feel of other braids ive used never let me down, love the orange colour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netic Posted August 27, 2007 Author Share Posted August 27, 2007 hi Oz, Well done for doing the research and actually getting the facts first hand. Personally i have tried many braids and have found the following to be true. The thinner the braid for the stated breaking strain the lower the knot strength, lower the abrasion resistance and the shorter the life. i have been using FINS PRT braid on all of my outfits that run line 20lb and higher, in particular i have had two spools in regular use for over 18 months with almost no loss of colour, performance or reliability. One spool of 20lb on my baitrunner and another spool of 30lb on my tekota. They are used more frequently than any other combo i have and have more than proven themselves, my biggest problem is that it DOESNT break when i snag up bottom bouncing because 40lb leader can sometimes be near impossible to break. Yes it is much thicker than Nitlon, Jigman etc, but it performs! ties excellent knots too.. CFD will also attest to the performance of FINS, he has had a spool of 20lb on his charter special longer than i have known him! another horror story includes some Pioneer 'tuna terror' braid that actually began rotting on the spool . As for the lighter braids, i go for the 8 weave linesystems "bass hard".. i have had a nighmare in the past when i strayed from the humble but stiff fireline. i tried fins but it was too thick, i tried Nitlon and i couldnt tie a knot without it breaking, i also had a few light duty failures with the nitlon stuff. Finally, after nearly going back to fireline, Tony convinced me to try the bass hard, which is an extremely tight weave braid thats not too stiff (fireline) and not too limp (nitlon).. i have been totally satisfied with it and now run it on both of my twin powers in 6 and 15lb. Sammy all my test have revealed that under the 30lb mark all seems to be pretty good......I never forget one day last year when we were trying to get anchor for jew fishing but the current was just too strong..... Then Sal got snagged and we couldnt get it off......we tied the line onto the boat and guess what....it helod like anchor for well over 60 mniutes..... I think the new braids in trying to get thinner have lost quality big time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warnie Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Hey Oz just a question....... i'm not that up with all the ins and out's with braid but after years of fishing brown's have come to rely and have faith in whiplash and exclusively use such dropping there no testing............. just the old hang on to it and heave em up from the bottom style but on sunday horror of horrors i busted off three times on fish (150lb test) the average fish sunday were 15-18kg even if i had a double on that would of been way under test but this is 3rd season with the braid so do you think maybe after time braid starts to breakdown? degenerate? think maybe it's time to spool up with a fresh 1,000 mtrs of line........... Cheers Warnie.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDiko Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Braid will definately get worn and lose it's strength after use. This is one of the disadvantages. However, if you look after it (i.e. no knives near it or having it left on the spool with just the leader through the guides when not in use) it should last for a very long time. What rating is your braid breaking at? And was there enough leader material on the rig so that the fish couldn't touch the braid? IFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone_wishin Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Guy's, Do you think it's exposure to salt water or UV rays? would it last longer if after use the reel was washed down and then placed in bag or cupboard out of the light?. With mono line it is the exposure to UV that eventually breaks it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netic Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 In all honesty gone wishin my braid wasnt that old....probably 4 months or so........after paying $200 for the braid you would like to think it is gonna last longer then four months...just plain old dissapointing if you ask me.......most braids these days are crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warnie Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Hey guys as said i like whiplash addmitably the 150-200 lb class its been a bit hard to get recently thats partly why i havent changed it as often as i should be doing.......... any how when making enquiries they said the manufactuer was using the product for body armour due to a resurgence in body protection with the present world unrest...... iraq...etc... and found this market more lucritive than fishing line.... well does it sound plausible or do you think it's a fob off any thoughts?????? Warnie......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screamnlines Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I have to agree, braid has gone a bit down hill of late. just recently I purchased a new reel and they gave me a spool of 65lb Spiderwire Stealth, never used the stuff before always used Tuff Line without a problem.. After spooling up the sustain I run a few tests and found the breaking strain around the 12 - 14 kg right at the knot, nowhere near the 29kg you should expect.. I did however get a bit better BS when I platted and catpaws or improve albright knot it to heavier mono, started to get around the 20 - 22kg alot better but still nowhere near the 29kg it's rated at. At the end of the day yes it isn't preforming to it stated strength but then again I don't really think I can achieve the 20kg drag on a sustain 8000 so on it stays for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolongeramember Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Hey guys.... some time ago you may remember that i ran some tests on different types of braid and some were good and others were bad.... after all the tests i ran i came to the conclusion that most of the heavier stuff was crap except for the PE 8 weave braids...... SO after reading up on Jap jigging sites researching the best braids, 3 brands were on the list to spool up my heavy kingy outfit. 1. YFK Jigman PE 8 weave 2. Daiwa Sensor braid SW 3. VARIVAS AVANI GT All these brands were raved about but the VARIVAS AVANI GT was said to be the best by far but at well over $300 for a spool overseas it seemed like over kill so i went with the Jigman mainly because it came in 600 metre spools as opposed to the Daiwa sensor which only came in 300 metres. When i first got my Jigman 70lb braid i rigged it up and tested its breaking strain.......... I ran a plaited doubled then use an improved allbright to 60lb leader...... tested it and it rated past 25kg without breaking which was awesome.... anyways since then i have use the outfit ten or so times...... Yesterday Sal was over and he said lets run some more tests on your braid...... we tried it again with the same plait and allbright and guess what.....broke at 14kg Tied another plaited double and 14 kg again..........it was breaking on the single line mm's before the plait.... we did this many times and it broke at 14kg everytime without fail...so obviously as the jigman got exposed to saltwater it weakened somehow...... we tried singles to mono....straight braid to swivel...you name it we tried it and it all failed at 14kg... With all faith lost in my braid i took the whole lot off the spool and now im braidless on my outfit..... I then called Kelvin and got his thoughts and he said that he hasnt got faith in the Jigman either and that he uses Daiwa sensor braid SW only and it serves him well..... so i called Crazy JOhn who has a Stella 20000 with Daiwa Sensor braid 60lb and i asked him to bring it over to run tests...... His 60ld braid was breaking at 19kg....much better then my Jigman but still not perfect.....we did a few different rigs and his outfit always broke at 19kg...... So the issues of braid breaking below its rating still continues on the top brands also....... Now i know people are gonna say "my braid is good" but if you would like to bring it past i can show you how good it is......chck and recheck your braid so you truly know how much you can lock up your outfits.... from what i can see the older/thicker braids are good its the newer thinner stuff that is no good.... just to let you know i have now gone with the VARIVAS AVANI GT in 100lb..........cost me more then a new twinpower though so the is gonna go crazy OHHH shiit man. Just when i bought the PE7 Jigman. I havnt even used it yet. You know I would use Squidgy braid (Rapala) every time as Ive found this to be the strongest out of all the braids. Try and test the 60 or 80Lb. Only problem is its thick. Thats why I dont want to use it on the 20000 because I want to fit atleast 500m of line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoRn Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 hi nectic Im just wondering how do u test the line? im just curious as i want to test out my lines as well.. in fact we had berkley whip lash 80 pound on an accurate whilst fiting a ray the line gave way the ray was on its way up...we then tested it by tying the line on a pole and pull...wasnt surprised i was able to snap the line with ease.... however the week after we faught a bigger ray much bigger for a whole hour without breaking. im bring my physics in here as well...perchance the rating is done over a longer distance ? I think (its been a long time since uni) if have a longer distance it takes much more force to break then shorter test eg 1-2 m... or maybe its the other way around...i forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Wyrsta Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Hi Netic, Were you testing with a gradual straight pull or applying a heavy and sharp force? GSP lines don't really handle shock load very well and can regularly break well below stated breaking strain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warnie Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Netic did you stop at braid or did you also try mono as well???? we recently tested 10 well known brand names........ and lets just say it was dissapointing..... one particular brand sold as 24kg on the label consistently broke at 9kg when you think some hapless fisho has more than likely got his strike setting at 8kg it goes with out saying hes behind the 8 ball before he starts......... thats why when some one gets confidence in a particular brand of line they tend to stick with it its sounding like the same will apply to braid.......... these testings were carried out with a line tester...... actual line no knot..... Warnie..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davester28 Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 (edited) Hi Netic, The problem with the Varivas GT is it changes colour only every 25m - not the greatest for jigging. The Varivas Avani Big One and Varivas Avani Jigging Max Power are the same braid as the GT, but with colour changes every 10m. I have spools of both the Big One and GT and can't tell the difference in performance. (BTW, you can often score a bargain on eBay - I bought a 600m spool of GT for US$110). However, I was a bit concerned reading an article written by one of the skippers on Nomad - they reckon the Varivas does not wear well and the braid needs to be changed the moment starts to fluff up. cheers, dave Edited August 29, 2007 by David L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolongeramember Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Might be a good idea to give your spools a nice soaking of fresh water everytime you wash your reels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Gday Oz, I am also very interested in how you conduct your testing?, i should have some new braid very soon it would be great to put under the same testing standards as you have done for the daiwa and jigman. This will be a new product brought into Australia, i am confident that it will out perform the lines already tested. I will PM you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Wyrsta Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Btw, saltwater has absolutely no affect on GSP whatsoever (so i'm told by the manufacturer of certain high quality braid manufactuer). Certainly not a factor dictating the breakage of your lines. Some other useful information... UV/sunlight will not degrade GSP Age will not degrade GSP Soaps, detergents (and i've even heard bleach - not game to try that one though!) will not degrade GSP Colour loss (when dye fades and GSP goes white) does not mean the GSP has deteriorated or lost strength Therefore anything that is marketed as braid, GSP, PE, Gel Spun, dyneema, spectra - you name it, it is all made of the same raw materials and should have the same properties. Number of weaves, tightness of the weave and finish (coastings, resins etc.) are the primary differences. US GSP is generally a looser weaved product whereas premium Japanese GSP is usually an 8 carrier weave that is very tight producing a very round and soft resultant product. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netic Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share Posted August 29, 2007 Guys the testing is pretty simple....... I mimick the fight of a fish......lock my drag up slowly and then with scales pull like a fish in an attempt to get some drag......then measure where the line breaks................ We have done tests with a testing machine and the results matched the simpler and cheaper way that i do it. Make sure you have quality scales for the test so they are accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDiko Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Btw, saltwater has absolutely no affect on GSP whatsoever (so i'm told by the manufacturer of certain high quality braid manufactuer). Certainly not a factor dictating the breakage of your lines. Some other useful information... UV/sunlight will not degrade GSP Age will not degrade GSP Soaps, detergents (and i've even heard bleach - not game to try that one though!) will not degrade GSP Colour loss (when dye fades and GSP goes white) does not mean the GSP has deteriorated or lost strength Therefore anything that is marketed as braid, GSP, PE, Gel Spun, dyneema, spectra - you name it, it is all made of the same raw materials and should have the same properties. Number of weaves, tightness of the weave and finish (coastings, resins etc.) are the primary differences. US GSP is generally a looser weaved product whereas premium Japanese GSP is usually an 8 carrier weave that is very tight producing a very round and soft resultant product. Hope this helps. The thing is mate, the braid goes in saltwater. When the salt dries little sharp salt crystals form on the line. Over time this can cause the braid to lose its strength. The same happens to nylon lines. IFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netic Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share Posted August 29, 2007 Btw, saltwater has absolutely no affect on GSP whatsoever (so i'm told by the manufacturer of certain high quality braid manufactuer). Certainly not a factor dictating the breakage of your lines. Some other useful information... UV/sunlight will not degrade GSP Age will not degrade GSP Soaps, detergents (and i've even heard bleach - not game to try that one though!) will not degrade GSP Colour loss (when dye fades and GSP goes white) does not mean the GSP has deteriorated or lost strength Therefore anything that is marketed as braid, GSP, PE, Gel Spun, dyneema, spectra - you name it, it is all made of the same raw materials and should have the same properties. Number of weaves, tightness of the weave and finish (coastings, resins etc.) are the primary differences. US GSP is generally a looser weaved product whereas premium Japanese GSP is usually an 8 carrier weave that is very tight producing a very round and soft resultant product. Hope this helps. Mate research has shown that UV does effect braid...thats why companies like Daiwa are now producing UV Resistant braids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Wyrsta Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 (edited) Ryan, i could see that as a problem if you didn't clean your line - but definately an issue as you point out. GSP lines do require TLC - it's a fact of life that you can't treat them like mono. Hadn't thought of that one - thanks. Mate research has shown that UV does effect braid...thats why companies like Daiwa are now producing UV Resistant braids Can't help you on that one other than saying that this is what i have received from a manufacturer. I'm no expert, but i've always believed that UV had no affect on GSP whatsoever. I don't doubt what you say but is there any more information that you know about this? Interested to know more because there is no point being under the wrong impression. This may help, however, i'm not denying that there may be further research to say that GSP is affected by GSP - i simply don't know. "PE is also not bothered, to all intents, by sunlight. In ultraviolet ray irradiation tests, which are a lot more severe than sunlight, the tenacity holding ratio after 1,000 hours of irradiation exceeds 80 per cent for PE. Nylon is down around 50 per cent after only ten hours. PE is also pretty much not bothered by chemicals, and it doesn’t absorb water or weaken in water. It does get stronger when it freezes, if that’s of any use to you. Another filament of use to fishermen is fluorocarbon. I gave that a wrap a few issues back, so I won’t go over it in depth this time. In short, it falls between nylon and PE. It looks like monofilament nylon but has much less stretch; its index of refraction is closer to that of water than any other line, making it hardest to see; and it has good abrasion resistance. It is, like PE, not bothered by sunlight." Edited August 30, 2007 by rzep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lighthouse2k Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Varivas-Braided-Lin...2QQcmdZViewItem Just found this braid cleaner on ebay for anyone who is interested. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolongeramember Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Ive been doing a bit of testing of my own and maybe saltwater and UV is not always the cause of line breaking way under its rating. I have the same 70Lb line as Netic tested here and have been testing it out a bit myself. Its brand new never used and it snaps at around 25kgs with my bimini twist same as what Netics did. Then I started pulling back and really loading up the 24kg rod against some serious drag, and winding down repeatedly over the same spot of line a few times and noticed the line fuzzing up a little where it goes over the line roller. I tested the line again and it snapped way under 25kgs, right where it met the line roller- NOT at the knot. So my conclusion is that normal usage on the line is goin to weaken it no matter what line it is. A big fish taking line under heavy drag is going to weaken it alot when the line has to travel around the roller at a sharp angle. This would be one advantage overheads have over eggbeaters.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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