Collin The Whale

[ORES]

Hay guys,

On a serious note,

Id like to know what are your thoughts on that whale that was killed in pittwater.

I recon its a very difficult subject.

You feed it but who can teach it to hunt or feed for itself when it gets old enough?

You kill it and its a cruel act.

You leave it take its corse and it suffers from hunger and it it will be eaten alive by preditor fish.

Some people might say thats nature that whales get eaten or die naturaly, and thats fair enough but pittwater is not the place where these things hapen and especialy when it feels that all its mothers it sees (the hulls of boats that it tries to clutch on as its mother) are just doing nothing.

So what is the right thing to do?

Whats your opinion?

[secki]

How many whales and animals in general are abandoned by their mothers in the world? Would it have been crueler to let the poor thing swim half heartedtly only to be eaten alive by sharks?

I think putting it down saved the poor thing a lot of grief, as there is no way it would have survived unless adopted by another pod of whales.

[ORES]

I agree.

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are.

[Davemmm]

I'm tempted to say we should have had a BBQ but I know that will only end up with angry responses.

The fact is that humans only get emotional over animals with bright eyes.

When the Barrier reef slowly dies nobody puts up monument to coral spores that are killed by excessive nitrates. The way we comemorate hundreds of mammal species dying in South American rain forest is buy more timber etc etc

So why should we be concerned over a whale calf that is abandoned. Nature has shown that this type of thing occurs quite regularly but because it happened on our doorstep the nightly news has a field day.

We should marvel at the way in which whale numbers have continued to increase since we stopped culling them and not get all hung up on a natural death that occured where we can all experience it.

My two bobs worth.

Dave

[PM79]

We shouldn't have interfered, who are we to decide what's best for this creature or any other?

What happened was natural and we shouldn't think of it in any other way just because it happens in front of our eyes, we should have let nature take it's course cruel or not.

I hope the mother turns up this week as it will serve the so called experts right, who apparently exhausted all options yet were suggesting killing it from the get go.

Edited August 23, 2008 by reLapse

[daleyboy]

Do we care if a kangaroo abandons its baby ... hell no ... its nature and nature was never meant to be fair!

We shoulda sent a quick msg to the PM of japan asking if they wanted some veal

Edited August 23, 2008 by daleyboy

[fisherboy]

they recon they had found the mother down the cost dead being eatin by sharkes

i think it was right what they did and not let it suffer

i dount think they could have helped it as it was only 3 mouths old and it needs ins mum until it is 11 mouths old

my mum sugested sell it to the japs

there is my 2 cents worth

fisherboy

[jimnicdusty]

LET NATURE TAKE ITS COARSE

They kill it and then take it to do reserch. I am sure thats wat the japanese want to do.

I thought we were against killing wales. Maby its all right for us but no one else.

[puka9988]

i thought that no one even tried to save it. most of the specialists wanted it goone.

i believe they shoulda tried more things as a similar situation happend in sandiago and they saved that whale.

[lighthouse2k]

It was going to die anyway, so you may as well put it out of its misery. People are kidding themselves if they thought it was going to live.

[brickman]

mmmm very tempting for somone with a dry warped sarcastic demeaner[thats me all over]

but i wont go there.it will be interesting to find out if there was any think wrong with it

i hope they do'nt waste the oportunity and maybe we will see colin in the museum that would be cool

they could hang it under the bigger one already there

gary

[Kingyfisher]

i hope they do'nt waste the oportunity and maybe we will see colin in the museum that would be cool

they could hang it under the bigger one already there

gary

This has got to be one of the most common sense threads that I have seen about the whale

Possibly it will go to a museum as when its buried the carcass is wrapped in chicken wire so later it can be removed intact

It was hard on all that were there and I can vouch for that personally

KF

[parad0x]

It was going to die anyway. I can't see the sense in spending money on saving it.. When put in perspective I think they said around 2million first up, wouldn't you rather see that money go towards cancer research or something more worth while?

Or, can anyone comment on using whale strips for jews. I heard they are decent. Would you need to salt them?

[mr magoo]

the whole thing was sad,life can be cruel,it didnt have a chance in hell on its own,needed its mum to survive,they just saved it from suffering more

cheers arman

[rizzo]

By the way collin turned out to be Collete the poor

baby girl life can be cruel at times but thats mother

nature i guess R.I.P our whale friendy

[Jigholio]

I reckon all you guys are right on the money. It takes someone with a strong connection to the natural world (like a fisho) to understand the drama of life & death for what it is. The zealots will always have their say, but naturalists (no not naturists) will always take a pragmatic view & accept things for what they are. If whales really are as 'tuned in' to human emotions & behaviour as many believe then screaming & shouting and all that other ugly protest behaviour is only going to compound its suffering.

Has anyone here seen the BBC doco series "The Blue Planet"? Watching a pack of Orcas pursue a Grey Whale & calf for six hours to utterly exhaust the calf, forcibly seperate the calf from its mother then slowly drown it by forcing themselves on top of it is pretty disturbing stuff. The tragedy of it is the Orcas only eat the tongue & lower jaw of the newborn.

Colin could have suffered a much worse fate, noahs would finish her in quick time.

IMHO Whales are neither cute nor cuddly.

[andrew399]

Was it sad? yes it was.

But in reality, how many kids are starving to death in Africa and other countries? yet we dont start protesting about that or putting it on the news... it would have been better to spend the money over there or something.

And then comes in the point of euthenasia, why is Ok for us to kill a whale to put it out of its misery but if a human wants the same thing its illegal?

But at least now i guess we get a chance to see what the japanese are so crazy about and try some whale steaks, im psyched!!

[Ross Hunter]

Was it sad? yes it was.

But in reality, how many kids are starving to death in Africa and other countries? yet we dont start protesting about that or putting it on the news... it would have been better to spend the money over there or something.

And then comes in the point of euthenasia, why is Ok for us to kill a whale to put it out of its misery but if a human wants the same thing its illegal?

But at least now i guess we get a chance to see what the japanese are so crazy about and try some whale steaks, im psyched!!

Dicko,

You make great sense Anything that blows air is naturally loved by all and sundry. The greenys go crazy over dolphins, whales etc..The truth is that they have few preditors, although I did see a humpback calf get eaten by a couple of Orcas some years ago They only eat the lower jaw and tounge, but there are few Orca pods off our coast..

Humbacks are increasing in enormous numbers every year and it is predicted by scientists that within ten years with climatic changes in the Antarctic that there may be a lack of krill to sustain the number of whales that will be in our oceans.This could see us culling them!.

Whales and dolphins are in fine fettle but who cares about the real problem with Mother Ocean.. The rape and plunder of tuna stocks by International long lining It is estimated that our shark population has been reduced by up to 70% and our SB tuna stocks are all but gone and should be put on the endangered specie list.

This is what I see is our real problems looming up in the next decade or so.Lets not waste money dragging whales off beaches only to find them next day beached elsewhere.

They've been doing this for thousands of years and wiill continue to do it in years to come, bury them with a bulldozer I say and get on with the job.

Colin! Well it should have been put down on the first day instead of dragging out some "helpless whale show" by the media. It is nature "The survival of the fittest" . and always will be. Let's get our priorities right I say.

Ross

[Jigholio]

I'm with you on that one. The plight of SBT is the real tragedy. Since the quota agreement on the southern fishery came into effect every nation involved signed off... except Japan. Every nation agreed to the idea of tracking devices to monitor locations of F/V's...except Japan. Every nation has within reason stuck to its agreed limits...except Japan. They have plundered our waters with an excess catch estimated to be three billion dollars worth of catch. That's 3bn international fraud, well documented, meantime the former Minister for Foreign Affairs wrote 'please don't' letters...hmmm.

How about old mate Orange Roughy? Remember him? Fished to near extinction. Only then was the question asked why? Well because he lives for more than 100 years & reproductive age is around 30yrs. Still hammered by trawlers despite <10% of biomass remaining. Only took a decade!

It's so bloody simple. Research the species before it's fished to ascertain sustainability, not the 'what happened' research when it's too late ffs.

[r]end rant[r/]

oooh Ross you got me steaming now!

[pjbink]

I have heard reports that the SBT are somewhat resurgent in our Southern waters due to reductions in commercial fishing. There is also speculation that climate change is boosting the food chain through more upwellings of nutrient rich waters. Game fishermen are reporting captures of some really large specimens.

Here's a report that also might be of interest:

More Bluefin Tuna in Southern Ocean

Posted Thu Jul 3, 2008 7:24am AEST

New research shows Bluefin Tuna stocks may be higher than first thought. (AAP Image)

Map: Albany 6330

Scientists believe there could be more Bluefin Tuna in the Southern Ocean than previously thought.

The tuna are born near Indonesia and migrate down the coast of Western Australia and to the Southern Ocean in summer.

CSIRO Researcher Alistair Hobday has been studying the juvenile tuna for the past seven years and tracking their distribution and movements.

Dr Hobday says recently he discovered only part of the tuna population migrates past Albany in summer, when the CSIRO monitors the fish.

He says the challenge now is to discover where the rest of the population goes.

"We released fish in WA near Fremantle and also near the Chattum Islands and then around Albany, and so far, none of the fish from the Fremantle region migrate around the corner into Southern Australia and that's a very interesting result," he said.

Commercial fisherman, Peter Westerberg, sold his tuna fishing licence in the 1980s when the Federal Government slashed quotas because it feared tuna stocks would collapse.

Mr Westerberg says, if scientists prove there are more tuna in the sea, he would like his quota back.

"Because of the scientific reports and all that, they reduced our quotas to such an extent that we weren't viable anymore, so that was the end of it for us," he said.

"If the quotas were incorrect when they were handed out I suppose we'd love to have a bit back."

[Ross Hunter]

I have heard reports that the SBT are somewhat resurgent in our Southern waters due to reductions in commercial fishing. There is also speculation that climate change is boosting the food chain through more upwellings of nutrient rich waters. Game fishermen are reporting captures of some really large specimens.

Here's a report that also might be of interest:

More Bluefin Tuna in Southern Ocean

Posted Thu Jul 3, 2008 7:24am AEST

New research shows Bluefin Tuna stocks may be higher than first thought. (AAP Image)

Map: Albany 6330

Scientists believe there could be more Bluefin Tuna in the Southern Ocean than previously thought.

The tuna are born near Indonesia and migrate down the coast of Western Australia and to the Southern Ocean in summer.

CSIRO Researcher Alistair Hobday has been studying the juvenile tuna for the past seven years and tracking their distribution and movements.

Dr Hobday says recently he discovered only part of the tuna population migrates past Albany in summer, when the CSIRO monitors the fish.

He says the challenge now is to discover where the rest of the population goes.

"We released fish in WA near Fremantle and also near the Chattum Islands and then around Albany, and so far, none of the fish from the Fremantle region migrate around the corner into Southern Australia and that's a very interesting result," he said.

Commercial fisherman, Peter Westerberg, sold his tuna fishing licence in the 1980s when the Federal Government slashed quotas because it feared tuna stocks would collapse.

Mr Westerberg says, if scientists prove there are more tuna in the sea, he would like his quota back.

"Because of the scientific reports and all that, they reduced our quotas to such an extent that we weren't viable anymore, so that was the end of it for us," he said.

"If the quotas were incorrect when they were handed out I suppose we'd love to have a bit back."

Billfisher

I do not believe that for one moment...Always be wary of a lobyists working hand in hand for the sbt guys multi billion industry.

SBT'S are in major decline and no one can convice me otherwise Yeh! so a few mexicans caught a couple and yes there were three or four caught in our waters but surely that's not scientific fact.

Any way it was about the whale I guess but thanks for your thoughts.

Ross

[Mondo Rock]

As fishermen I think we all struggle occasionally with the 'morality' of killing animals. What is it that drives us to suddenly release a captured fish during the midst of a bag-out? What is it that drives us to look into the eyes of a flathead and decide "back you go old girl"?

Sometimes it is a scientific decision, i.e. releasing breeders or protecting a species, but more often than not it is a phenomenon known as "anthropomorphisation". The process by which we artificially give uniquely human characteristics to animals. "Colin looks sad" or "Colin looks happy" is anthropomorphisation as it attributes emotional characteristics to a whale - an animal that is wholly incapable of experiencing those emotions in a human sense.

At its core anthropomorphisation is an evolutionary misfire. Our empathy, that most wonderful of characteristics that has allowed us to function as a society for many thousands of years, drives us to sympathise with others - to put ouselves in their shoes so to speak. It is absolutely central to our success as a society, but it does lead to curious outcomes such as this one. Feeling empathy with a fish is really quite a ridiculous concept when you think about it.

Bottom line is that anthropomorphisation is an illogical process, and there is little doubt that Collette the whale should have been left to die on her own (as hundreds of whale calves are left each year). Nonetheless I'm certainly not going to be the one to argue that we, as a people, should do anything to lessen our ability to empathise (even if, in this case, our aim was a little off).

[pjbink]

Billfisher

I do not believe that for one moment...Always be wary of a lobyists working hand in hand for the sbt guys multi billion industry.

SBT'S are in major decline and no one can convice me otherwise Yeh! so a few mexicans caught a couple and yes there were three or four caught in our waters but surely that's not scientific fact.

Any way it was about the whale I guess but thanks for your thoughts.

Ross

Environment groups are big funders too, Particualy the Pew Charitable Trust. A lot of the gloom and doom reports you here in the media regarding fisheries are from scientists funded by Pew. A lot of them are exaggerations based on flawed methodology. Eg the report that 90% of the World's pelagic fish are gone, all the World's fished stocks will be depleted in 50 years and so on. There is always the kicker at the end of these reports that no-take marine reserves are the answer.

Here's the bio of the scientist who was quoted on the STB:

Dr Alistair Hobday

BSc Hons (Stanford), PhD (Scripps)

Research Associate

Contact Details

Telephone: +61 3 6226 1708

Fax: +61 3 6226 2745

Location: Hobart Campus, Life Sciences Building, 3/41

Email: alistair.hobday@csiro.au

I trained as marine scientist in California, with undergraduate and graduate degrees from Stanford University and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography respectively. I completed post-doctoral work on abalone and Pacific salmon, before moving to the pelagic fisheries group at CSIRO Marine Research.

Research Interests

My research field is Biological Oceanography; the mechanism of environment-biology interactions is given greater importance than "pure" Marine Ecology . My recent research focus is the influence of the environment on the distribution and abundance of marine species, particularly relating to the sustainable management of Australian fishery resources. I have worked with a wide variety of marine taxa and systems and use a variety of technology, including satellite data, and acoustic tagging and monitoring.

Research Areas:

Marine Ecology

[Dreamtime]

What happened to SeaWorld????

In the 10 years from 1997 to 2006 Australian commercial tuna catches totalled nearly 60,000 tons.

Worldwide for the same period, the total was almost 20,000,000 tons (Yes 20 million tons)

Who are we kidding??? Is this sustainable??

PM me with your email address if you would like the comprehensive catch figures, and values for Albacore, Bigeye, Skipjack and Yellowfin Tuna for the 10 years 1997 to 2006. (Released in March this year)

Cheers

Mariner

[Ross Hunter]

Environment groups are big funders too, Particualy the Pew Charitable Trust. A lot of the gloom and doom reports you here in the media regarding fisheries are from scientists funded by Pew. A lot of them are exaggerations based on flawed methodology. Eg the report that 90% of the World's pelagic fish are gone, all the World's fished stocks will be depleted in 50 years and so on. There is always the kicker at the end of these reports that no-take marine reserves are the answer.

Here's the bio of the scientist who was quoted on the STB:

Dr Alistair Hobday

BSc Hons (Stanford), PhD (Scripps)

Research Associate

Contact Details

Telephone: +61 3 6226 1708

Fax: +61 3 6226 2745

Location: Hobart Campus, Life Sciences Building, 3/41

Email: alistair.hobday@csiro.au

I trained as marine scientist in California, with undergraduate and graduate degrees from Stanford University and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography respectively. I completed post-doctoral work on abalone and Pacific salmon, before moving to the pelagic fisheries group at CSIRO Marine Research.

Research Interests

My research field is Biological Oceanography; the mechanism of environment-biology interactions is given greater importance than "pure" Marine Ecology . My recent research focus is the influence of the environment on the distribution and abundance of marine species, particularly relating to the sustainable management of Australian fishery resources. I have worked with a wide variety of marine taxa and systems and use a variety of technology, including satellite data, and acoustic tagging and monitoring.

Research Areas:

Marine Ecology

Billfisher,

Your credentials are beyond reproach, and always your points are most valid, but I am still yet to be convinced by any scientist inc. Dr Hobday unless they can tell me where the government has spent a billion dollars in research performed over a decade or so to substantiate their facts. Without that sort of research, any findings from Australian scientists are just not going to pass my sceptical scrutiny. Call me a sceptic or just plain suspicious of their directions.

These guys need to spend a decade or so punching in sonic tags on oceans all over the world at $7000.00 dollars a pop and then tell me that the millions of tonnes of SBT's taken from the oceans each year is not effecting the stocks that don't breed until their 7 or 8 years of age. These juvenile fish are purse seined by the Pt Lincoln fleet by the thousands each year prior to them ever breeding.They are then penned, fattened and sold to the Japs for unbelievable prices thus making then Port Lincoln fishermen in the top ten richest groups in our country.

All the doctorates in the world will not convince me unless the above boxes are ticked that our world wide SBT stocks are not being exploited towards extinction. Call me old fashion or just call me pig headed but no one will change my mind.

Sorry mate! it's a lifetime of observations and experiences that I draw from and I have lived thru the demise of many of our oceanic species....... Where were the scientists then?

I have watched the Ajax pole 6 tonne of bluefin a day off the Sir John Banks In the 60's they now pole kings or bonito and have not seen a bluefin for 40 years. If they kept polling bluefin their would have never been a problem with stocks, but no, lets purse seine and long line Greed and more greed uncontrolled fishing turning fisherman into millionairs in a short time and slowly going broke over the next decade as stocks dwindled or became in accessable.

No I am sorry I am not convinced...I'LL GIVE THE BLUEFIN A DECADE AND THAT'S IT if the slaughter continues....................Any way.............. Let's go back to Colin it's so much easier

Ross