Undersized Kingies-a Different Viewpoint?

[adkel53]

This morning while I was walking past a stall selling seafood at our local growers market I heard the operator extolling the virtues of a particular type of fish to a potential customer. When the customer asked what the fillets were he replied '"little baby kingfish". I stopped in my tracks, inspected the fillets and confirmed them to be kingfish. I then asked the stall operator how he could be selling fillets from obviously undersized kingfish when I, or anyone else, would cop a considerable fine for keeping such fish. His reply- and I quote, was "when they do a trawl and catch them they fillet them up and sell them - they are already dead". I shook my head and walked of and as I left he called out "most of them are over 65 cm". I should have replied "bullshit" as not one of them appeared to have come from a fish over about 50cm long. However, I'm not into public confrontation in a small town so I continued on my way.

There is a police station just up the road near where I had parked. Noticing a policeman out the front (having a gasper!!) I enquired of him about what role they had in policing such obvious breaches of the law. He wasn't interested and fobbed me off by saying that the seller had probably purchased the fish from someone else and that you would need to catch that person with the undersized fish. There is no fisheries office nearby so not much more I could do.

Just thought I'd share my anger and frustration with you. How many more times and places does this happen in NSW?

Cheers

Kel

[GregL]

This morning while I was walking past a stall selling seafood at our local growers market I heard the operator extolling the virtues of a particular type of fish to a potential customer. When the customer asked what the fillets were he replied '"little baby kingfish". I stopped in my tracks, inspected the fillets and confirmed them to be kingfish. I then asked the stall operator how he could be selling fillets from obviously undersized kingfish when I, or anyone else, would cop a considerable fine for keeping such fish. His reply- and I quote, was "when they do a trawl and catch them they fillet them up and sell them - they are already dead". I shook my head and walked of and as I left he called out "most of them are over 65 cm". I should have replied "bullshit" as not one of them appeared to have come from a fish over about 50cm long. However, I'm not into public confrontation in a small town so I continued on my way.

There is a police station just up the road near where I had parked. Noticing a policeman out the front (having a gasper!!) I enquired of him about what role they had in policing such obvious breaches of the law. He wasn't interested and fobbed me off by saying that the seller had probably purchased the fish from someone else and that you would need to catch that person with the undersized fish. There is no fisheries office nearby so not much more I could do.

Just thought I'd share my anger and frustration with you. How many more times and places does this happen in NSW?

Cheers

Kel

Hi Kel

Kingfish are farmed down in South Australia just like barras are in the north. That's why you see the little barras in the tanks down at your local chinese. When they are famed I don't think they have a size limit to them.

Greg

[BFB]

I know it is frustrating but there must be a different size limits for commercial fisherman compared to us recreational fisherman. Just have a look at the size of the school prawns they sell at fish markets and in bait packets and then try to see with you can catch a prawn that size in a legal hand net.

We can only do our bit.

[Penguin]

Hi Kel

Kingfish are farmed down in South Australia just like barras are in the north. That's why you see the little barras in the tanks down at your local chinese. When they are famed I don't think they have a size limit to them.

Greg

Im sure if this seller was selling farmed Kingies he would have stated this

fact when confronted about his baby King fillets.

I would inform fisheries about this seller. Im sure they would like to know

of his whereabouts.

penguin

[GregL]

Again same thing with prawns being farmed as well.

I'd say 90% of people selling seafood have no idea where it comes from.

Now they lable seafood on what country it comes from, personally I think it should say if it's wild fish or farmed as well.

How many people have been caught out buying thos little farmed barras that I think taste like crap, specially if you have tasted a saltwater barra, no comparison.....

Back to the Kingies, justa a quick look at a fish farm site, one company in SA in Jan 2008 produces 50 tonn PER WEEK and is targeting 200 tonn a week in a few years!

This is only out of 1 company, I just don't think seafood sellers know where their stock is from and half the time know what it is!

I have caught the local shop down stairs so many times on "what type of fish is that?" They always seem to say popular fish names which I know they are 100% not!

Greg

[clem]

I have also been wondering how the fish shops can sell undersize bream,flathead,snapper,etc and not have a problem.I pop in at one in Sevenhills when I do my shopping(FOLLOWING THE WIFE) and always wonder how they can do it when we fisho's stick to the rules.

The wife complains that I go fishing for 12hours and come home empty handed.She does not realize that I return all that I catch as they are undersize.

Anyway someone is standing behind me with a WIP wanting some attention as well.(HEE! HEE!)

Guess what kind?

Cheers Clem

[GregL]

I also wonder what the guide is on what is classed fresh and whats not.

The fish I see in my local don't look anywhere near "fresh" in my books. I've had snapper in my fridge for 5 days and they look no where near as "dead" as the ones in the shops.

Then I have seen the same single fish in a shop window 3 days in a row under the lights, ewwww!

G

[stevefish]

Kingfish mature and breed at around 80cm. dont kill me but is an 1 undersize kingfish that hasnt bred yet that diferent to 1 legal kingfish that hasnt bred yet.

someone must know for sure if pros have size limits or not. i was of the opinion they werent, then there is of course farmed fish and fish from interstate that are "managed" by different governments.

ps. i always adhere to size and bag limits.

[pjbink]

Kingfish mature and breed at around 80cm. dont kill me but is an 1 undersize kingfish that hasnt bred yet that diferent to 1 legal kingfish that hasnt bred yet.

someone must know for sure if pros have size limits or not. i was of the opinion they werent, then there is of course farmed fish and fish from interstate that are "managed" by different governments.

ps. i always adhere to size and bag limits.

Yes the pros have the same size limits as rec fishermen. There are some differences between Commonwealth and State size limits and so pros with Commonwealth licences may in some cases have different size limits to what we are used to.

The legal size for kingfish was revised upwards recently and I believe part of the reason was that it was discovered that the breeding size was larger than previously though. If it is 80cm then it legal to catch fish that haven't bred yet, though the 65cm limit does limit the catch and does mean that more fish will get to breeding size than if there was no limit or a much smaller one.

[Josh88]

I have seen similar things like this, they often sell small kingfish at the sydney fish market but these are farmed fish so there is obviously not a size limit on these particular fish. But this guy sounds a bit dodgy, i agree with penguin why wouldn't he say they were farmed if they were. I'd just like to see stricter laws being imposed and more patrolling done on both commercial and rec fishos that think they can get away with breaking the law while the rest of us put in heaps of effort to try and get quality fish the legal way.

More research needs to be done on fish breeding patterns and effective size and bag limits need to be put in place. We all fish as a sport its not like we are dependent on eating fish we catch to survive, sure its nice from time to time but i know i am in it for the fun of planning out and catching fish whatever size or species, who is going to stand up and do anything about it though??

[fyshfood]

QLD 50cm and no bag limit

VIC no min length , bag of 5

Commonwealth LFB fishing in the same nsw waters as us NO MIN LENGTH

NSW rec anglers an unrealistic 65cm (15CM MORE THAN ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Got to say that i feel discriminated against.

Also if the pros are netting these fish by the time they get them to the boat they are dead anyway ,they may as well take them to market . It would be a waste to throw them overboard dead.

Id like to see rec fishing in NSW go they same way as VIC in that way maintaining a strict volume limit as the mainsay of our conservation, but also allowing rec anglers the opportunity to possibly bring home a feed if they so desire

[marcel haber]

Ditto.

Sounds like different rules for different fools.

[Jewhunter]

I also wonder what the guide is on what is classed fresh and whats not.

The fish I see in my local don't look anywhere near "fresh" in my books. I've had snapper in my fridge for 5 days and they look no where near as "dead" as the ones in the shops.

Then I have seen the same single fish in a shop window 3 days in a row under the lights, ewwww!

G

Totally agree Greg.

Don't you love the "Frozen for your convenience" labels!

Cheers,

Grant.

[Boban]

I can't believe you people eat Sea Kittens!!!!!!!!!!

[Flightmanager]

NSW rec anglers an unrealistic 65cm (15CM MORE THAN ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Unrealistic?? I think not !

Many members have applauded the increased limit , as it means next years fish are that much bigger , and harder to catch !

We are currently experiencing a massive increase in numbers of Kingfish in Sydney Harbour and Botany Bay , albeit , many are " rats " below the legal limit , but there are quite a few " hoodlums " amongst them !

Sometimes , regulations work in our favour !! ( OK, it may take 24 months to take effect , but you get the general idea !!!)

Ross

[A.dawg]

Small kingies are getting more comon in shops When i first saw a kingie which was 30cm's at the fishmarkets i had same thought where did this come from isnt the legal limit 65cm or 60cm at that time

A.dawg~~~

[Flightmanager]

I'm led to believe (and I may be quite wrong about this ) that ANY fish caught in a Commercial Fishers net is automatically legal !!

It is classed as a " bycatch" , and even if undersize , is available for sale by the boats owner.

As I said , I could be wrong ....( wouldnt be the first time !) .

Ross

[Davemmm]

Unrealistic?? I think not !

Many members have applauded the increased limit , as it means next years fish are that much bigger , and harder to catch !

We are currently experiencing a massive increase in numbers of Kingfish in Sydney Harbour and Botany Bay , albeit , many are " rats " below the legal limit , but there are quite a few " hoodlums " amongst them !

Sometimes , regulations work in our favour !! ( OK, it may take 24 months to take effect , but you get the general idea !!!)

Ross

This is the first season ever where I have regularly caught rat kings as a bycatch in the Hacking. This morning I landed a 60cm version on a nuclear chicken shrimp in three foot of water on the Burraneer Bay flats - I found it absolutley amazing on 6lb line and 10lb leader. There was a school of rats hitting bait all over the flats and at one stage I counted six circling under the poly.

Given the rarity of this happening in the past then I think the size limits and the pro buy back may be working.

Question: Does anyone know how many "commonwealth licences" are there being used in NSW?

Dave

[pjbink]

I'm led to believe (and I may be quite wrong about this ) that ANY fish caught in a Commercial Fishers net is automatically legal !!

It is classed as a " bycatch" , and even if undersize , is available for sale by the boats owner.

As I said , I could be wrong ....( wouldnt be the first time !) .

Ross

Not true - size limits apply equally to rec and pro sectors. The only difference is (as I said earlier) if the pro has a Commonwealth licence then he may be working to Commonwealth legal sizes, which can be different to the State ones.

[Piss'n'Broke]

One shoe should fit all!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whats good for the recreational angler should be the same to the professional angler!! I dont see why laws should distinguish what one can do but another cant! Love to see people argue these things in court, anyhow what the government says go. BUT doesnt mean I agree with it.

Dan

Edited January 25, 2009 by Dan and Greg

[kinghightide]

This morning while I was walking past a stall selling seafood at our local growers market I heard the operator extolling the virtues of a particular type of fish to a potential customer. When the customer asked what the fillets were he replied '"little baby kingfish". I stopped in my tracks, inspected the fillets and confirmed them to be kingfish. I then asked the stall operator how he could be selling fillets from obviously undersized kingfish when I, or anyone else, would cop a considerable fine for keeping such fish. His reply- and I quote, was "when they do a trawl and catch them they fillet them up and sell them - they are already dead". I shook my head and walked of and as I left he called out "most of them are over 65 cm". I should have replied "bullshit" as not one of them appeared to have come from a fish over about 50cm long. However, I'm not into public confrontation in a small town so I continued on my way.

There is a police station just up the road near where I had parked. Noticing a policeman out the front (having a gasper!!) I enquired of him about what role they had in policing such obvious breaches of the law. He wasn't interested and fobbed me off by saying that the seller had probably purchased the fish from someone else and that you would need to catch that person with the undersized fish. There is no fisheries office nearby so not much more I could do.

Just thought I'd share my anger and frustration with you. How many more times and places does this happen in NSW?

Cheers

Kel

When fish are netted yes they are dead, commercial fishing involves netting and these things happen, they to need to earn a living like every other human being.

Commercial dredging used to take place in wollongong for scallops, this was very good for the recreational fisherman as this would attract very good snapper and mahi mahi, now this is banned because the recreational fishermen would complain about it.

The fisheries used the recreational fisherman as an excuse to ban commercial fishing and now they are using the recreational fishermen to form a marine park.

Fishing is like lotto, one week you pick three numbers and the other you pick none, and one week you might pick the jackpot.

Fishing is the same, one week you catch a fish or two and the other week you bag out.

It's a sport,you win and you loose.

Bad looser's will always remain bad sport's.

Edited January 26, 2009 by kinghightide

[pjbink]

When fish are netted yes they are dead, commercial fishing involves netting and these things happen, they to need to earn a living like every other human being.

I would imagine most commercially caught kingies are caught on droplines not by nets.

[kinghightide]

I would imagine most commercially caught kingies are caught on droplines not by nets.

That is incorrect.

[Dan]

We need to fish for the future..... But at the same time we ARE fishing today.

I NEVER EVER take a fish smaller than the legal limit... and will NEVER allow anyone on my boat to take home a fish that is even 1cm smaller than the limit!!!!

Trust me, I hate it when I get a 29CM snapper (even worse a 63cm king) and it’s the best fish that’s come onboard so far…. But it goes back EVERY time.

However at the same time we are TOLD we cannot have more than 4 rods with more than 3 hooks on a rod per person (overkill for sure) but we have a bag limit for our catch anyway!!!!

Why can’t a person have as many rods as they like, but be strict with the law when it comes to bag limits...?

My main objection to the DPI in NSW is: As a crabber I can have 5 hats and 1 pot...... Why can’t I have 5 pots? Same amount of buoys in the water. Easier to manage.... Most pots are built locally and hats are always built in china!

I MUST follow the bag limit anyway (For myself and a mate that’s 40 blue swimmers.... more than I would ever want to take in one day)

Why create a rule that limits the gear you can use but have such large bag limits..... To me that’s just stupid..

For this reason I have sent a letter to the department of fisheries of NSW asking for an explanation of why these rules exist and what avenues recreational anglers have to object to these rules and make a conserved effort to make changes based on both the well being of the future of fishing in NSW and the anglers that fish today.

In QLD it’s illegal to take a female crab if it's under berry or not..... In NSW you CAN take a female crab if its under berry or not...... that’s just bloody stupid! They have bugger all meat in them and are much smaller than the males, it should be illegal to take them..... We throw ALL females back and only take males for obvious reasons....

By the way: 6cm is way too small for a blue swimmer crab…. 8cm+ should be the size limit. I see a 6cm crab at the fish markets and think……. You must be kidding, who in there right mind would buy such a small crab!!!!!

I can’t count the amount of times I have seen boat's fishing Botany Bay and NOT throw back under sized fish..... It makes me very angry … myself and my fishing partners are happy to pull-up to a boat and educate them in HOW to fish in Australia!

It's time that the department of fisheries in NSW fished for the NOW and for the FUTURE in a single policy.

It’s up to us the angler to police the water ways when we see something is not right AND make adjustments to the current legislation, because if we don’t……. we don’t stand a chance in 100 years time.

Remember if you see something that’s not right on the water and ignore it….. You are almost as bad as those that ignore the law.

I welcome you're feedback on this matter, perhaps the anglers of NSW should get together and speak as one to the DPI in regards to future legislation changes that benefit every one (do we already have such a voice?)…..

Dan.

[huntman]

That is incorrect.

I know a few commercial fishermen, one uses nets, the rest use lead lines for kings.

There is heaps of dodgey stuff that goes on in the fishing world, and they'll never stop everyone from breaking the rules, but what has been done for kings is working, and kingies are in plague proportion in the harbour this year. I think there are other species that you should get more worried about if you want to get a bee in your bonnet about something. Like tuna for example. The tuna stocks are rooted especially southern bluefin.