Towing With Vz Wagon

[toxicfish]

G'day all,

The missus and I are getting our new boat soon, but I would like some advice in regards to tow setup.

We have two options:

1) Go to holden and get the 2100kg tow kit fitted ($760+$330 fitting) which is a heavy duty bar and air shocks

2) Go to local Hayman Reese stockist and get a HR bar for $780 fitted (also 2100kg rating) no shocks etc.

Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated, are the air shocks a necessity or am i making Mr. Holden richer?

Boat to be towed:

Whittley 2080 (formerly 550) with a weight of around 1550kgs on trailer with half tank of fuel.

Tow Vehicle:

2006 VZ Commodore Wagon (legal to tow 2100kg, madness, but legal).

Thanks in advance.

[Guest]

Go with the air shocks they are awesome and after you have finished towing just let them down again.

I used to tow a 5.25 carrabean crestcutter with my VN commodore and it was great with the air shocks.

Cheers Stewy

[toxicfish]

Go with the air shocks they are awesome and after you have finished towing just let them down again.

I used to tow a 5.25 carrabean crestcutter with my VN commodore and it was great with the air shocks.

Cheers Stewy

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

I should point out too though, I will have this wagon until september only, then i must swap it for a Falcon Wagon (company policy). Would it still be worth the extra spend for a temporary vehicle?

If i fore-go the air shocks, would a distribution hitch be necessary? (Makay Trailer)...

Sorry for all the questions, first real boat and all.... But i do appreciate the feedback...

[Guest]

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

I should point out too though, I will have this wagon until september only, then i must swap it for a Falcon Wagon (company policy). Would it still be worth the extra spend for a temporary vehicle?

If i fore-go the air shocks, would a distribution hitch be necessary? (Makay Trailer)...

Sorry for all the questions, first real boat and all.... But i do appreciate the feedback...

The good thing about the air shocks is when you put all that weight on the tow ball the front of the car may tend to lift up a bit and the air shocks over ride that and make it all level again which is what you are after.

You will get light steering with too much weight at the rear,which can be dangerous at best.

If its a company car ??? get them to pay for it

Cheers Stewy

[toxicfish]

If its a company car ??? get them to pay for it

Cheers Stewy

I wish i could, but they have long pockets and short arms, so i have to bare the costs

So the extra cost is still the way to go... Ok, it's off to Holden on Tuesday to get it all fitted out...

Any thoughts on towing 1600kg's with a Commodore wagon? (should be ok, from what else i have read, anyone got exerience with a boat of that weight and commodores?)

[Guest]

I wish i could, but they have long pockets and short arms, so i have to bare the costs

So the extra cost is still the way to go... Ok, it's off to Holden on Tuesday to get it all fitted out...

Any thoughts on towing 1600kg's with a Commodore wagon? (should be ok, from what else i have read, anyone got exerience with a boat of that weight and commodores?)

It should be on a dual axle trailer which will distribute the weight more evenly and you should have a good set of trailor brakes fitted and kept well maintained for optimum stopping power.

The pulling is not the hard part,its the stopping that is always the issue when sedans are pulling bigger than average trailer boats.

This can be a worry at the ramps as well with wheel slip when trying to haul the big girl out on a slippery ramp.

Just ease the gas on when starting your tow and similarly when pulling the boat from the ramp.

Cheers Stewy

[pelican]

How far are you going to tow? If doing short runs and aware of the shortcoming of your towing vehicle you can still do it safely. Talk to the local caravan guys as they know a lot more about vehicles towing det ups than any Holden dealer or boat shop.

As a hint I think the Holden bars are made by Hayman and reese ( well they were)

The other option is when you buy a boat to get a very good trailer set up. Good balanced axel set up and a correct towball weight and think about a "mini hich weight distrubition hitch"by H&R as you can move it between vehicles as they fit every towbar..

Other option is pollyair and pay the labour to have them transferred to new car but check with them..

Oh well you have some reading and talking to do now.

That price sounds too much so phone a few H&R dealers as they want business at the minute

Edit - not sure which commy models have limited slip diff but it make a big difference on slippery ramps . The base model - last ome didn't and the ABS antiskid is too slow to put brake on spinning wheel as it actually cuts engine revs in the process. Long story but I don't like em o slippery ramps. Someone else may know more on the car sites or hoons here

Edited April 15, 2009 by pelican

[Wantingaboat]

Hi there. May be a stupid question but is all the equipment not transferable when you change cars? Air shocks and tow bar off the old car and then fitted to the new one? It seems when you fit the tow bar they remove the back bumper and replace it with a new stronger part. When they did mine they offered the old bumper back to me. I would take Stewys advice on the shocks as people who have done this first hand are the best ones to ask. According to Toyotas website i could tow 700kg with my little car which is pretty ambitious. The manual says 550kg which obviously contradicts the website. Make sure you do your homework as it seems that you are going to be towing a reasonable amount. Cheers Mike.

[pelican]

Nah each car has it's own design of towbar

Some firms won't transfer to a second car as they can't warranty it hasn't been abused and overstressed.

Edit Oh year get the full size spare wheel as the small wheels are no good if you want to keep towing at speed.

Edited April 15, 2009 by pelican

[toxicfish]

Hi there. May be a stupid question but is all the equipment not transferable when you change cars? Air shocks and tow bar off the old car and then fitted to the new one? It seems when you fit the tow bar they remove the back bumper and replace it with a new stronger part. When they did mine they offered the old bumper back to me. I would take Stewys advice on the shocks as people who have done this first hand are the best ones to ask. According to Toyotas website i could tow 700kg with my little car which is pretty ambitious. The manual says 550kg which obviously contradicts the website. Make sure you do your homework as it seems that you are going to be towing a reasonable amount. Cheers Mike.

Unfortunately the gear won't be transferable between vehicles, as I will be moving from a Commodore Wagon to a Falcon Wagon in the future, so the setup and towbar will be different models. Not necessarily a bad thing, they are a better tow vehicle, so i read on caravan forums (live rear axle, instead of IRS etc).

I may look into getting a novated lease so i can pick my own tow vehicle come september, but, in the mean time, i'm stuck with the commodore, so i'll take it easy when on the tow... I live 30min from the Hawksbury on flat smooth road all the way there and back again, and they will be my main haunt, i may take it out to the oatley ramp from time to time, but i'll see how my short trips fare in the mean time before i make that jump...

Thanks for the input all, i do appreciate everyone's feedback...

[jewieslayer]

I am pretty sure vz commo come with traction control on all models standard so smoking them up is not a problem on a ramp,If it is a company car i would not bother with air shocks for the time been wait for the falcon.

Cheers Jewieslayer

[johnv]

go-day toxicfish ,

I wouldn,t tow anything with a holden never again i towed a 605 stacer 1/2 cab with a vx calais 5,7 v8 & bent the shassis, rear quarter panels near the back door seals, was told by the smash shop never to tow more than 3/4 of the cars weight. so we went out & bought the new hilux 4x4 3lt deisel daul cab ute & what a difference that made easy as now ..thats my 20 cents worth

cheers john

[dangles]

go-day toxicfish ,

I wouldn,t tow anything with a holden never again i towed a 605 stacer 1/2 cab with a vx calais 5,7 v8 & bent the shassis, rear quarter panels near the back door seals, was told by the smash shop never to tow more than 3/4 of the cars weight. so we went out & bought the new hilux 4x4 3lt deisel daul cab ute & what a difference that made easy as now ..thats my 20 cents worth

cheers john

John if i remember correctly the VX had an extra for the towbar that braced inside from the shocktower area back to the bar mounting points to prevent the sagging/ bending of the boot area. My old man used to tow a 1500kg trailer for work everyday without a drama in his vt with the bars fitted

[kinghightide]

Dont worry about the air shocks, wait for the falcon.

As for a Brand New towbar why bother if you have the vehicle for another 5 months.

There are heaps of Holden Wreckers out there as well as aftermarket towbars which are compatible with the holdens.

A good used one wont set you back more than $150.00. As for fitting you can do it yourself or get the fellas at the wrecking yard to slap it on for you.

JohnV, was your 8 banger a ute or sedan ? Out of curiosity did you go flying over a ditch or were you fishtailing ???

[Mrwooley]

G'Day,

I tend to agree with JohnV, after many years of towing boats, bikes, and bush bashers, I would only tow with a Holden or Ford ( family car or wagon ) if it was my absolute only option. While owning and running a panel shop for many years, I saw what damage can be done with the wrong towing set-ups. Like most non- chassis rail vehicles, their are not capable of towing anywhere near their maximum weight for extended periods with out extensive modifications.

In most cases, you would be better off getting a chassis rail vehicle ( light or heavy 4x4 or 4 x2 ) to the job

comfortably, for a long time.

IMHO.

Regards,

Barry.

[pelican]

Dont worry about the air shocks, wait for the falcon.

As for a Brand New towbar why bother if you have the vehicle for another 5 months.

There are heaps of Holden Wreckers out there as well as aftermarket towbars which are compatible with the holdens.

A good used one wont set you back more than $150.00. As for fitting you can do it yourself or get the fellas at the wrecking yard to slap it on for you.

JohnV, was your 8 banger a ute or sedan ? Out of curiosity did you go flying over a ditch or were you fishtailing ???

Company lease cars have a lot of conditions depending on type of lease and company. Read the lease and conditions as you don't want to upset them or your boss.

Many will not allow any equipment to be fitted unless by the fleet manager and will only allow Holden or Hayman and Reece equipment otherwise you may have warranty issues and be chasing a small manufacturer or wrecking yard mechanic ( if he is qualified to fit bars).

They do that as they must take the hit on the sale of the car if there is issues.

A lot of light 4wd and cheap chassis jobs may have the chassis for towing but to actually do a decent job you need to spend $ on suspension and bushes and the standards don't last well and are sloppy. The Hilux is ok standard but put a horse float on and yuck.

The holden traction control as I said works by killing the spark and then possibly braking individual wheels but does it too slowly it smokes one wheel on the base model commy. The company car I run does it and smokes a wheel at wet intersections . Other cars have LSD as standard and also have individual wheel braking that works instanly on spinning starting.

Edited April 16, 2009 by pelican

[BalmainBob]

Gday Mate,

Ive got a VZ wagon and fitted the 2100 tow bar to it my self. I towed my 530 Bar Crusher up to Port Maquaire twice and to and from the local 'sydney ramp plenty of times and had no problems at all.

The Bar Crusher weight in at around 125okg but withall the camping gear and fishing gear onboard it would easily have hit the 1600 kg mark.

I was going to go for the air shocks but after towing the boat a few times decided that I did not need them.

Make sure that your trailer brakes are working correctly and you should have no problems

cheers

Bob

[BFB]

I had a VX commodore and it towed my boat without a problem.

Going away camping I used to tow a single axle box travel which had an all up weight of over 1 tonne all I fitted to it was a load leveling bar between the tow bar and trailer and never had any problem.

[fishingrod]

I have a VZ Ute with the factory FE2 sports suspension. Its a fraction lower than a standard commodore and a fair bit firmer. I tow around 1550kg on a dual axle trailer with cable brakes. No equalizing hitch. It definatly doesnt sag. Just check the ramp for potholes or slippery spots and choose your lane accordingly. On the road it behaves reasonably. Overall it does the job OK.

Im assuming your wagon is auto. I don think anyone here has mentioned Auto Transmission coolers yet. The Holden kit would almost certainly come with a cooler. Would be worth asking Haymen Reese if they include it.

Sounds like your already booked into Holden and that is a sensible choice in my opinion, especially as its a lease car. At least you know its all OEM gear.

** Edit: for the record, mines a V6 6sp manual

Rod

Edited April 17, 2009 by fishingrod

[toxicfish]

I have a VZ Ute with the factory FE2 sports suspension. Its a fraction lower than a standard commodore and a fair bit firmer. I tow around 1550kg on a dual axle trailer with cable brakes. No equalizing hitch. It definatly doesnt sag. Just check the ramp for potholes or slippery spots and choose your lane accordingly. On the road it behaves reasonably. Overall it does the job OK.

Im assuming your wagon is auto. I don think anyone here has mentioned Auto Transmission coolers yet. The Holden kit would almost certainly come with a cooler. Would be worth asking Haymen Reese if they include it.

Sounds like your already booked into Holden and that is a sensible choice in my opinion, especially as its a lease car. At least you know its all OEM gear.

** Edit: for the record, mines a V6 6sp manual

Rod

Thanks all, i've decided to stick with the OEM holden gear, mainly because then there is no recourse for the lease company to have a winge about it - or my fleet manager.

After we pickup the new rig on Friday, i'll post back with how it tow's, and based on that, i'll make a descision in september to take the company falcon wagon or novate a vehicle more suitable for towing..

for the record, the company VZ wagon is an auto, and holden has advised that no extra transmission cooler is needed or warranted I'll ask the fleet manager if he wants me to fit one anyway (with full disclosure on towing).

Thanks all for the great advice, it is appreciated; will let you know how it goes after friday (and of course wetting the rig on the weekend)

[toxicfish]

well, just a quick update as promised;

The VZ was fitted with a hayman reese Heavy Duty tow kit (2100kg rating) instead of the holden OEM gear due to a bit of a stuff up with booking it in for fitment etc and my work schedule, confirmation from the lease company says this is fine, they don't require Holden gear exclusively, as long as it has been fitted by an approved fitter etc and it is a legal towing capacity for the vehicle (check).

Picking the boat up from hunts marine in Blakehurst saw us tow it to the St.George boat club ramp and that was fine, then we had to pull the boat out of our water test at low tide (bit of slime on the lower end of the ramp) and this was also fine, no wheel spin etc, towed it home (past a/port, East. Dist., Harbour Tunnel, M2, M7) and all up it went really well, fine up to 100km/h (no sway induced, not that we stayed at 100km/h for a long length of time). Car pulls fine, stops fine etc. I would like to fit some stiffer springs to the vehicle, but as it is coming into winter and won't be towing long trips during that time, (mainly just down the road to the hawksbury at windsor) i'll wait for the falcon replacement vehicle before optimising the vehicle for towing. I'm happy to plod along at 80km/h if required, leaving plenty of distance, playing the defensive driver all the way to our destination.

Thanks to all who posted their feedback, it has been really helpful. for interest sake the ar$e end of the wagon does dip a small bit, but not to the point that the headlights become off putting to oncoming traffic (or someone i am following) and the steering and braking remains responsive and firm. The setup did not once mis-behave on the 70km of towing we did to take it home, and handled the suburban streets fairly easily. I did notice a very slight increase to the nominal running temp of the wagon, but a quick call to Holden verified this is to be expected (why they still confirm an auto-cooler to not be necessary is beyond me) but as the vehicle is a company car, and the fleet manager doesn't want me to go fitted an external cooler for the short time I'll still have the car is good enough for me.

Cheers all, cya on the water.

[wrxhoon1]

You will find the Falcon will be a better tow wagon, she has leaf springs and the rear end where the tow bar fits is made stronger . The point others have made about towing with cars is a valid one but you should be fine as long as you have your trailer well babanced and you are sensible, after towing for long distances always look under the car where the towbar mounts for signs of stress .

As you will be towing a long way and at high speed you should get yourself a WDH that will fix your rear going to the ground and the front lifting . When you get the Falcon or any other vehicle you can still use the same WDH. Balance your trailer so you have 5-10% of the weight on the towbar , you can use bathroom scales with some timber on it and place it under the jockey wheel.

There are various WDH's you can buy from about $200 up, if you want a used WDH , I have one you can have for $120. You will be surpiced the difference they make , I tow with a landcruiser but I still use a WDH unless I'm going to the local boat ramp in suburban traffic and 60 k limit.