Remeasuring A 4.6 Webster

[Geoff]

I have a 4.6mt Webster purchased in late 2003 , it was the newer model which included the 300mm sponson extensions from the transom.

Around 2005 , boats manufactured with the same hull as mine were reclasified to 4.9 as it included the sponson extension

I want to have my boat reclasified to 4.9 but finding that a lot easier said than done. Won't bore you with the details other than to say the Boat Code agents I have contacted are not keen , mainly due to their lack of understanding, on doing the job.

I live in Sydney & would be interested to hear from anyone in NSW who have had their 4.6 remeasured to 4.9 , who did the remeasure & / or any problems encounted.

PM me if you prefer

Tks

Geoff

[Holmesie]

Have you tried talking to the manufacturer themselves? The owners, Kelly & Daniel, are quite approachable and very helpful. It would definitely be with a try, as they might have some ideas.

Cheers

Edited September 2, 2010 by Holmesie

[Geoff]

Have you tried talking to the manufacturer themselves? The owners, Kelly & Daniel, are quite approachable and very helpful. It would definitely be with a try, as they might have some ideas.

Cheers

I have sent Daniel a mail this morning however I'm not sure how involved they were as it occured around the time they purchased the business from Ron.

Also , it's my understanding the change was mainly driven or arranged by Inveloch Marine in Vic.

I have been in contact with I.M. & received information but it is only a general interest as what appries in Vic may not be applicable in NSW.

I have contacted Websters Sydney agent & awaiting a reply but not expecting a lot as this change came in many years before their involvment & they are not a registered Maritime Boat Code agent.

We will see what eventuates over the next few days

Geoff

[Catchin Jack]

Be interesting to hear their reply Geoff.

Apparently the older Allycraft Bar Raider 4.75 which I have is the same length as the new 4.80 model, wonder if I can get it changed to reflect the correct length also or will Allycraft want to keep it as is.

Will also send an email to them and see what they say.

Cheers,

Leo

[ray henry]

hi geoff apart from my p'm to you ;to ask about detemining the lenth of your vessell you can contact the waterways info line [131256 or visit www.waterways.nsw.gov au good luck ray

[Geoff]

hi geoff apart from my p'm to you ;to ask about detemining the lenth of your vessell you can contact the waterways info line [131256 or visit www.waterways.nsw.gov au good luck ray

Ray Have sent a second PM I received from Maritime prior to seeing your post.

I'm still not totally clear on the measuring point as allowed by Maritime so have gone back to Maritime with a photo & further information asking for clarification.

Will call you soon

Geoff

[Catchin Jack]

Hi Geoff,

I ran into a guy last night at work that used to deal with boats and he was telling me there's 3 ways to measure a boat and all are correct but it depends on the person measuring it and also manufacturer as to what they want to sell it as. I'm still confused by it all but thought i'd let you know what he said, be interesting to see what Maritime say when they get back to you. Also apparently it's unregulated in the measuring department so there's no control on correct measuring.

Cheers,

Leo

[Geoff]

Hi Geoff,

I ran into a guy last night at work that used to deal with boats and he was telling me there's 3 ways to measure a boat and all are correct but it depends on the person measuring it and also manufacturer as to what they want to sell it as. I'm still confused by it all but thought i'd let you know what he said, be interesting to see what Maritime say when they get back to you. Also apparently it's unregulated in the measuring department so there's no control on correct measuring.

Cheers,

Leo

Leo I have received this morning advice from Maritime that the measurment for my boat is from the bow to the motor mount.

This may not be applicable to other boat brands unless any extension from the transom makes up part of the water line, ie pods which are above the water line are not considered by Maritime as part of the length.

In essence , it is a matter of case by case & if others reading this thread are thinking of a remeasure then contact Maritime for advice.

The attached photo may clarify further

Geoff

Edited September 3, 2010 by Geoff

[ray henry]

this is a very interesting subject ;i have done 100;s of boat codes ;moification;replacement;and validations since 1996 and had many a debate with customers over the years you can not please ever one ;but rules must be followed . some customers want the boat measured as long as posible [so they can carry as many people as they can ; some want it measured as short as posible [to avoid higher registration fees ] registration fees are graded by the lenth of the vessell ; my guide is ;if avessell is original [no add ons then i measure the vessell over all [engine pod and anchor clearence spout ] if these things have been added after manufacture than i dont include them as waterways require .also these add ons can be removed if the vessell is stolen and rebirthed if i am in doubt ; or the customer wants to argue i ring waterways h.q and they decide the right way to go ; it works for me ' also the waterways have a flier out [determining the lenth of your vessell ] its free and a good guide line p's geoffs has been solved ;good luck ray

[Catchin Jack]

Thanks for the reply Geoff and Ray, i'm going to go have mine remeasured and see what they say.

Cheers,

Leo

[ray henry]

this is a very interesting subject ;i have done 100;s of boat codes ;moification;replacement;and validations since 1996 and had many a debate with customers over the years you can not please ever one ;but rules must be followed . some customers want the boat measured as long as posible [so they can carry as many people as they can ; some want it measured as short as posible [to avoid higher registration fees ] registration fees are graded by the lenth of the vessell ; my guide is ;if avessell is original [no add ons then i measure the vessell over all [engine pod and anchor clearence spout ] if these things have been added after manufacture than i dont include them as waterways require .also these add ons can be removed if the vessell is stolen and rebirthed if i am in doubt ; or the customer wants to argue i ring waterways h.q and they decide the right way to go ; it works for me ' also the waterways have a flier out [determining the lenth of your vessell ] its free and a good guide line p's geoffs has been solved ;good luck ray

geoffs situation has been solved after speaking with waterways h'q a new certificate will be issued next week with an updated measurement ;problem solved ray

[tuffy]

this is a very interesting subject ;i have done 100;s of boat codes ;moification;replacement;and validations since 1996 and had many a debate with customers over the years you can not please ever one ;but rules must be followed . some customers want the boat measured as long as posible [so they can carry as many people as they can ; some want it measured as short as posible [to avoid higher registration fees ] registration fees are graded by the lenth of the vessell ; my guide is ;if avessell is original [no add ons then i measure the vessell over all [engine pod and anchor clearence spout ] if these things have been added after manufacture than i dont include them as waterways require .also these add ons can be removed if the vessell is stolen and rebirthed if i am in doubt ; or the customer wants to argue i ring waterways h.q and they decide the right way to go ; it works for me ' also the waterways have a flier out [determining the lenth of your vessell ] its free and a good guide line p's geoffs has been solved ;good luck ray

Thanks for that Ray, you probably answered my question as to why Geoff wants to do this in the first place.

Cheers, Tuffy

[Geoff]

Thanks for that Ray, you probably answered my question as to why Geoff wants to do this in the first place.

Cheers, Tuffy

Tuffy. Ray has listed a number of reasons why people want to have their boat remeasured.

In my case there are 2 reasons , the first as stated in my origional post ,

Around 2005 , Webster boats manufactured with the same hull as mine were reclasified from 4.6mt to 4.9 as it included the sponson extension .

The second reason , as from the 1/11/10 life jackets need to be worn under the specified circumstances for boats under 4.8mt.

Generally speaking , I don't have a problem with the new rules but on hot days , in calm seas I would like the option of not wareing a jacket without being pinged by the authorities

Geoff

[tuffy]

Thanks, Geoff, sorry, I probably didn'y understand your original post.No offence meant.

Cheers, Russ.

[nsaykali]

so when you say "pod" that arnt part of the waterline, do you mean outboard pods like the one pictured? that actually sits in the water, as do the bungs that go in it... its part of the boat.

i have a stacer 4.75 and it measures longer if you include the outboard pod.

who can remeasure it and provide me with a certificate please pm me.

thankyou.

[Geoff]

so when you say "pod" that arnt part of the waterline, do you mean outboard pods like the one pictured? that actually sits in the water, as do the bungs that go in it... its part of the boat.

i have a stacer 4.75 and it measures longer if you include the outboard pod.

who can remeasure it and provide me with a certificate please pm me.

thankyou.

nsaykali. A friend of mine purchased a new "4.6" Stacer a few years ago. It is badged & registered as 4.6

It actually measurers 4.3 from the bow to the transom but when the outboard mounting , which is similar to yours is included it measurers 4.6mt

Let me say at this time , for your set up refrain from using the term "Pod" as it has a diferent meaning to Maritime to outboard mounting.

If you wish to have it remeasured the approach I took was to E Mail Maritime with a photo & asking can the motor mount & underlying filled in section be considered part of the boat & be included in the overall measurment.

If they say yes , (which in my case they did) then contact a Boat Code Agent to have the boat remeasured then off to the local Maritime office to have the rego changed.

I'm planing on visiting Fishraider Ray Henry tomorrow to have my boat remeasured.

Assuming this all goes through OK then it's a matter of having the decals changed by a sign company

Geoff

[Geoff]

Just thought I would provide an up date.

Finalised a few items with Maritime earlier in the week regarding the actual measuring points.

Once sorted , visited Fishraider ray henry who measured the boat & completed the necessary paper work

Visited Maritime at Liverpool this morning & had the rego papers amended.

Now , offically 4.9mt

Only job left , new decals.

Will raise a seperate thread to see if any one can assist with the decals

Geoff

[Catchin Jack]

Hi Geoff,

As for decals, all I did when I needed new ones for my boat was browse the net for picture I needed which was "Allycraft" and then went to a place that did stickers and got them to make them up, was a lot cheaper than getting them from boat manufacturer, if you want the printers details let me know and i'll PM it.

Cheers,

Leo

[Catchin Jack]

Hey Geoff,

Finally got a reply from Allycraft in regards to correct measurement of my boat and here's their reply.....

The 4.75 Bar Raider is the same as the old 4.80 Bar Raider (although not the same as the 2010 model with flat sides). We changed them to 4.80m to keep up with our competitors. The actual hull of these boats is 4.4m, but the overall all length is subjective when you take into account the tip to toe policy.

If you want your boat re-rated to say 4.80 instead of 4.75, you will have to send us a cheque or deposit money into our bank account for $25.00. This will cover the cost of the freight and the new compliance plate. We will also have to get your current plate back – as we DO NOT re-rate any plates without the original first (for legitimacy purposes).

Printed out the email and heading off to a boat coder to get it changed.

Cheers,

Leo

[Geoff]

Hey Geoff,

Finally got a reply from Allycraft in regards to correct measurement of my boat and here's their reply.....

Printed out the email and heading off to a boat coder to get it changed.

Cheers,

Leo

Will be interested to hear how you go & the approach the BC agent takes when he compares Maritime guide lines to that of the manufacture

Geoff

Geoff

[Catchin Jack]

Hi Geoff,

I spoke to a boat coder and he said he'd do it but wasn't real keen to do it, i just quoted what Allycraft had said

The 4.75 Bar Raider is the same as the old 4.80 Bar Raider (although not the same as the 2010 model with flat sides). We changed them to 4.80m to keep up with our competitors

He said he'll do it if I really want it changed so i'll take it to him tomorrow with copy of the email and see how it goes, i'll let you know haha.

Well another email came from a person and said

Sorry to be a pain, but we are unable to adjust your boat plate as Michaela incorrectly indicated. The boats specs were current at the time of manufacture in 2000 and we would not alter them given the age of it in any case. Ally Craft has been sold to Telwater P/L and is now closed and no longer trading. Apart from that, we would not be in a position to issue a HIN Certificate for NSW either.

I won't post what I said in my reply to last email from them but it was colourful. They've lost my business when I update my boat and will never recommend them either, this isn't the first time i've had issues with their office.

Cheers,

Leo

Edited September 13, 2010 by Fezza

[Geoff]

Leo As we , along with others I have had communication with over the past few weeks are finding , there is a lot more to this process than first meets the eye.

I thought that once Maritime had approved the measuring points it would be all straight forward instead , it has taken weeks to go through the process.

I won't bore every one with the detail but it's taken over a week just to get the new decals sorted.

As for the manufactures plate , on mine , only the BC No. appears on the plate. Other details like the length have not been entered so not necessary to have it replaced.

Geoff

Edited September 13, 2010 by Geoff

[mr475]

This is also a hot issue for me.

I have a 475 Quintrex with a configuration like nsaykali's Stacer in a previous post. The actual rear of the flotation part of the hull where the motor is mounted extends some 30cm aft of the rear of the cockpit as in nsaykali's photo. Having read the NSW Maritime brochure on determining the length of your vessel, it says that the measurement is to be taken to the transom. So where is the transom defined to be? Is it where the motor is mounted or is it the rear of the cockpit?

I will get the measuring tape out on the weekend and see what the difference is because it may take my hull length to around 5 metres. If so, I will do as Geoff suggests and send a photo to Maritime to see if they approve re-measuring.

[Geoff]

This is also a hot issue for me.

Having read the NSW Maritime brochure on determining the length of your vessel, it says that the measurement is to be taken to the transom. So where is the transom defined to be? Is it where the motor is mounted or is it the rear of the cockpit?

I will get the measuring tape out on the weekend and see what the difference is because it may take my hull length to around 5 metres. If so, I will do as Geoff suggests and send a photo to Maritime to see if they approve re-measuring.

Mr475 Firstly , I suggest you contact nsaykali ( Nick) perhaps via PM as we have had several comunications via PM & E Mail .

It sounds like you both have a similar situation. Nick has already done some leg work & working together you may be able to "kill 2 birds with one stone" , so to speak.

In respect to the Maritime brocher , is this the one you have looked at?

determininglength.pdf

If so this document does not specificaly cover our situation. The boat , third from the left shows a pod & pods are not considered part of the overall length.

The yacht , 2nd from the left is the closest to our situation.

Geoff

[mr475]

Thank you, Geoff,

Yes that is the brochure I looked at. I will do as you suggest when I can work out how to send a pm.