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[the_lure]

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Edited August 10, 2006 by the_lure

[shecomb]

I release all my fish... except bait fish (yakkas etc...)

I figure i fish for the sport of it and if i took them all, there will be no sport left for the future. Even now there's a major decrease in fish compared with 10yrs ago.

I have no problem with people keeping anything that's legal. But i HATE seeing punks dropping tiny bream into a kill tank for some sorta crap stew or something.

-Dave

[Grozzo]

I think as long as its legal and if havnt caught ALOT of other (fish) to eat then i will keep a flatty of any size...

As long as its legal than I have no guilt and no-one should try and shove it down your throat either.... just cause they do it doesnt mean everyone else has to...

Dont forget not all fisher-people get to fish all the time they might fish once a month, 3 months ect and would like to take a few fish to keep and freeze until they are able to go next... there is nothing wrong with this i think... as long as nothing is wasted...

Wayne

[nick_s]

ive never relly caught big flathed but anythink bigger the say 60 i will release.

[Bashir]

I don't see anything wrong with it. By killing the smaller males, you are effectively doing the same damage aren't you?? They never get a chance to grow into big breeders. They are not a species that is in any bit of decline whatsoever and I believe the subject attracts far too much attention. Nobody takes shots when people get a big jewie and they are a lot harder to catch than a big flathead.

[Ken A]

I release big flatties. Breeding prospects aside in my opinion they are dry tasteless crap to eat anyhow so why bother killing them.

Ditto what Bashir also.

The bottom line is that while it is legal to take big flatties people will continue to do it. If you have a problem with that the people to target are the law makers not the individuals who are NOT breaking any law by taking them.

But then its easier to make a nasty post pointed at someone on a fishing site like this than write to a minister.

[mitch]

Personally I release all my fish that I catch, if I am fishing with someone who wants a flaty for the table then they are welcome to one of my catch. I will happily hand over a pan size fish but like to see the big mumma's swim free.

I have a good feeling this post has been put up after reading of the "7Kg" Flathead that was caught and kept for the table by a Fishraider member. There is no law at the moment in NSW stating that large Lizards are to Be released and until there is I don't feel that anyone should be able to dictate to another angler on whether he/she should keep or release there catch.

Mitch

[Lightweight]

I love seafood. So therefore the main reason i fish is to catch a feed of fish, and have some fun in the process. Once i have enough fish to feed myself (read Family) for two meals, the rest goes back into the water regardless of size. There is a perennial healthy discussion about the morality of keeping certain sizes of fish, and that will continue.

I believe in abiding by the laws as they stand at first cause and then going further if you wish, but not imposing your own morals onto someone else. I mainly go on eating quality over anything, i know that a 50-60cm lizard is the best eating so any outside of that go back regardless... same applies for Jewies, the best eating are between 10-15Kg (well that is what the better restauraunts demand) so once again, outside of that bye-bye. I have never had a bad tasting Bream, so if it is over 30cm, esky it is!

So in the end my taste buds with a help from our friends at the Fisheries determine what i keep or release.

Also, there are many other important things we can do on a daily basis to preserve the environment that our fish and fish stocks call home. It is not only about fish size in preserving a great asset for the next generation of mad keen fisho's, there are many factors that will ultimately help keep this resource for many years...

LW

[Guest Jocool]

Lightweight has posted EVERYTHING i was going to say! Good work...saved me the typing!

As far as the 7KG fish...He is entitled to keep it, although I would have advocated its release if it were on my boat!

[Thumperbream]

I have no real problem with people keeping large lizards, and I have mates who have kept flatties which have been over the 90cm mark. However I agree with Ken, lizards of that size taste .

I assume that most people who have caught them of this sort of size havn't tasted one because if they had im sure they would have second thoughts about keeping them for the table.

I would be suprised if anyone could honestly tell me that they enjoyed the taste of a flathead over 80cm long. Fish of between 40-70cm are best.

Anyhow I would never bag anyone for keeping them and would be the first one to congratulate them on their catch.

Keep on

Ryan

[Trouble]

i believe as long as its legal you can do what you want with it just depends on if you are more of a C & R orientated fisho or like some food for the table..

If i was lucky enough to get a fish of that size ill send her back to be caught again but that is my opinion..

[Guest Jewel]

I cant add any more after Joe and Lightweights comments, other than personally if its not going to be eaten in the next day or two it goes back ........ I dont care for frozen fish too much!

[Bashir]

"Dusky flathead are large fish, growing to 15kg (120cm). At sexual maturity they average around 63cm in length." 

I guess it recieves attention due to the fact that there are anglers out there concerned about the ongoing survival of the recreational fishery. They are not in decline... yet.

49996[/snapback]

I am also concerned about our recreational fishery. The danger in it collapsing does not stand with the odd angler keeping a breeding flathead however, this is such a minute issue. what makes them different to any other species? Sure they are big breeding females, but so are plenty of other fish people decide to keep. Yet they never receive this sort of attraction. I suspect it is because people are not 100% sure if they are male or female. If they start breeding at 60cm then surely a flathead over 80cm has done its job in the breeding department. Does anybody know when they STOP breeding?? I haven't kept a big flattie for years, at least 10, so I can't really remember if they taste any good, so won't comment on that issue.

Let me ask you this question,

If you had a way of determining the sex of each species you caught, would you release all the females? Should we be releasing the smaller flathead instead to give them a chance to grow into big breeders? Really I don't know, I think the answer to all this is only take what you need, if this is done then there will never be a problem with fish stocks (except for the commercial debate, but you get what I mean).

[Richobull]

i believe as long as its legal you can do what you want with it just depends on if you are more of a C & R orientated fisho or like some food for the table..

If i was lucky enough to get a fish of that size ill send her back to be caught again but that is my opinion..

50021[/snapback]

Ive got my own slot limit for all species to decide on keeping - and if they are over or under the slot, back it goes as it does if Ive got enough already or cant be bothered keepin them. A personal slot limit is a good thing.

cheers

[kikila]

Listing to High Tide a couple of weeks back I believe they said that NSW Fisheries were conducting tests on big flathead and murry cod to ascertain if the larger fish were indeed breeders or that like other animals that when they get to a certain age they become barren. That said I release all flatties over 70cm and if I have a good feed in those over 60cm.

[Ken A]

Ken is that directed at me, because I don't believe I have been nasty anywhere on this site... ever?

If it was directed at you your name would be in front of it.

I was referring to the nasty crap that happens here & everywhere else when pics of big flatties are posted by many people.

Instead of doing something about getting laws changed they sit back & sling shit at people who have done nothing outside the law!

[pogo]

My understanding is that the flathead over 70 cms are all female and that the reason for releasing the big mommas is that they are so fecund, that is that a big lady flathead will produce many more eggs that will turn into little flathead than a smaller breeding female.

I have also read that male flathead are sexually mature at a much smaller size than the females and dont grow as big full stop. I have caught male flathead just over legal size that have had fully developed milt sacs.

Slot limits are also a good idea because there is some good research from the states in trout fisheries that a minimum legal size only causes the overall population of fish to reduce in size. the theory goes that if lots of fish are taken at or just over the legal limit what happens is that the fish that have the genes to grow large quickly are taken after they have spawned once or not at all.(working on the basis that the size limit is to allow the fish to grow to maturity before they can be kept). Whereas the fish that have genes for stunted growth get to spawn many times before they are legal, so that over time the selection is for fish that mature early and small. By having an upper limit you get to maintain the genes for large fast fish growth in the gene pool.

Personally 65 cm is top for flathead for me, the last big one I posted was 63 and was plenty big enough to feed the family. Not that I get to test my self imposed limit to often, only twice, a 72 and a 67 which really tested my conscience.

The only fish I generally take for the freezer are some trout from the big lakes, cause I lovesmoked trout. A good sized kingy also ends up with some in the freezer and those flllets or cutlets end up brined and smoked too Yum.

Some days its pretty hard to get a feed and some days the ocean showers you with her bounty, the secret is not too be greedy on the great days and hope you are buliding up credits with Huey for less of the thin days.

"YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE" Sam Kekovitch

regards POGO

Edited May 31, 2005 by pogo

[macman]

G'day,

I release the bigger flatties I catch, but only because I don't like the bigger ones to eat and quite often its too much for a couple to eat. If its legal to catch the bigger fish then go for it. No problem as I see it.

Matt

[Guest Jocool]

I have also read that male flathead are sexually mature at a much smaller size than the females and dont grow as big full stop.

50059[/snapback]

I always thought male and female were one and the same Pogo! They all start as males when first hatched, and transform to females at around the 70 cm mark. Flathead are a-sexual. Or am I grossly mistaken????

[Hooky.]

Personally I don't keep large flatties, as said previously, they taste like crap.

The following is from the NSW DPI web site.

If they feel the need to do a study on flatties doesn't this mean that no one really has a clue as suggested in the highlighted sentence?

Project Title: Size and age at maturity and timing and location of spawning of dusky flathead in NSW (FSC2000/056)

Principal Investigator: Dr Charles Gray

Funding Source: Recreational Fishing Trust

Objectives:

* Determine the reproductive cycle, size and age at maturity and the timing and location of spawning of dusky flathead in NSW.

* Provide advice on the species life history and possible management options to maintain sustainable harvesting including suitable size limits.

* Disseminate information on the biology of dusky flathead to recreational anglers.

Summary:

Dusky flathead is an important finfish species harvested by recreational and commercial fishers in NSW. Because of concerns over the long-term sustainability of the resource (see Gray et al. 2002), the minimum legal length of dusky flathead was increased from 33 to 36cm in July 2001, with a further increase to 40 cm proposed. This proposed increase in size limit is based on relatively rudimentary information concerning the size that flathead spawn. No detailed study of the reproductive biology of dusky flathead has been done. This is needed so that future decisions on the most appropriate size limit for the species can be based on rigorous scientific knowledge.

Sampling of the size and age compositions and reproductive condition of estuarine populations of dusky flathead was done throughout 2001 and 2002. Preliminary analyses indicate that flathead grow quickly and that spawning occurs between October and March. Further data will be collected during the 2004/05 spawning season to ascertain the minimum age and size that dusky flathead reach maturity and the exact timing and location of spawning. The outcomes of the study will be used to develop management plans for the sustainable harvesting and conservation of the species.

[pogo]

I dont know Joe, I do know that thats the way it works for barra, its called "andronomy" I think but Ild have to look that up

but many other fish species have male and female from birth and I thought thats the way flathead work.

Regards POGO

[pogo]

I know what you mean telco, as I said in my previous post Ive only ever caught 2 over 65 cms and only as a bycatch when fishing seriously big baits for a big jewie ( which I m yet to catch so no moral dilemma there until the day comes) but it is interestingto read about the number of big flatties caught in QLD where the top limit is in effect.

wouldnt it be nice to have enough big flathead around to make them a species worthwhile targeting like the flathead competion they have up there.

I'm pretty confident if I go out and try to catch a couple of pan size flatties but I wouldnt count on catching them over 50 cms on a regular basis. Be nice if I could though.

Regards POGO

[pogo]

Sorry Joe you might be right, been doing some research and came up with this.

Life history

Both species of flathead spawn in bays and estuaries and in shallow, nearshore coastal waters,7,8 apparently in response to increasing day length and water temperature.3,4

Dusky flathead spawn during the warmer months of September to March in northern tropical waters,8 November to February in Moreton Bay2 and January to March in New South Wales3,7 and Victoria.9 In New South Wales, dusky flathead spawn in the channels near estuary mouths and ripe fish have also been collected over seagrass beds in Botany Bay.3 There is no information on the frequency of their spawning or fecundity. There is conflicting information2,3,8 on whether they are protandrous sex reversers or not; ie each fish first functions as a male and then changes to a female. Dusky flathead mature as males probably in their second year and sex reversal from male to female probably takes place at 4 or 5 years of age.2

Sand flathead undertake a single, brief spawning between August and October in Port Phillip Bay.4 There is no reproduction information from other areas.

Eggs and larvae of dusky flathead are dispersed along the coast by tide and current movements.7 Small juveniles less than 12 cm total length first appear in coastal bays 1–2 months after spawning (eg April in Botany Bay3). Small juveniles mainly inhabit shallow mangrove and mud flats and seagrass beds.2,3

Dusky flathead attain a maximum size of approximately 15 kg and 1.2 m total length.7,9 At 1 year old, dusky flathead in Queensland waters are about 18 cm total length.2 By 3 years of age they average 40 cm, and by 8 years of age average 90 cm total length. Dusky flathead mature at a larger size in warmer waters and at a smaller size in cooler waters. For example, the average total length at first sexual maturity is 46 cm (males) and 56 cm (females) in Queensland,8 32 cm (male) and 38 cm (female) in Botany Bay.3 In southern New South Wales and Victoria the average total length at maturity (both sexes) is about 26 cm.7,9

will investigate further, it seems a shame that so little is known about such a popular species.

Regards POGO

[Narralakes]

If there were plenty of fish of any type some of us might keep more than we do now. The trend of C & R lately is a good move, and the dwindling stocks, and for the sake of the environment and for us to catch anything in the future, we have to look after mother nature and what she provides. Now with the news that the govt might or has halved the flow of water in my favourite bass waters, the mighty Hawkesbury and Nepean, I'm feeling mightly blue.

[pogo]

Heres some more

Variations in sex, length and age compositions of commercial catches of Platycephalus fuscus (Pisces : Platycephalidae) in New South Wales, Australia

C. A. Gray, V. J. Gale, S. L. Stringfellow and L. P. Raines

Abstract

Commercial landings of dusky flathead (Platycephalus fuscus) from four estuaries in New South Wales (NSW), Australia, were sampled for data on sex, length and age composition between February and July each year for 2–3 years between 1995 and 1997. Landings primarily contained female fish, ranging from 55% to 93% by number for different estuaries. Flathead sampled in commercial catches ranged from 30 cm to 96 cm total length (TL), but the majority were 33–50 cm TL. Fish >40 cm TL were primarily female and male fish >45 cm TL were uncommon. The length composition of catches differed between gillnets of different mesh sizes, with the average length of fish being least in the smallest allowed mesh size of 70 mm. Fish were aged by otolith interpretation and the analysis of marginal increments indicated that one opaque and one translucent growth zone was formed each year; the opaque zone being deposited in June–August (winter) and first observed in September–October (spring). Commercial landings included fish aged 2–11+ years, but fish aged 2–4+ years dominated landings in all estuaries. The total mortality of dusky flathead in each estuary was estimated by catch curve analysis and was relatively high, ranging from 0.45 to 1.64. The data indicate that dusky flathead may be heavily exploited in NSW.

The more I read about this the more I think the argument for a top limit is related to fecundity, that is big fish more eggs.

I reckon I will stick with my self imposed limit of 65cm and only taking enough for a feed the way I have always done and hope that there are still plenty of lizards around for my two year old to catch when he is 40

Ciao for now

POGO