Rinse The Fish And Run The Risk

[Scent Blazer Lures]

Morning All Fisho's,

Ever wondered why the local fish shopstinks? Or why you or someone you know doesn't like the taste of fish? Well its simple, the way fish and or any seafood for that matter is treated from capture to your plate are generally the reason behind that fishy, awful smell. Checkout the article on the link below and get a better understanding on the do' and don'ts on treating your catch to keep the quality!

If you can't catch it the article also explains how to pick the perfect fish from your local fishmonger.

http://scentblazer.c...ishRunRisk.aspx

Share on this post the way you look after your catch!!

Tight Lines,

SBC

[user1829]

Morning All Fisho's,

Ever wondered why the local fish shopstinks? Or why you or someone you know doesn't like the taste of fish? Well its simple, the way fish and or any seafood for that matter is treated from capture to your plate are generally the reason behind that fishy, awful smell. Checkout the article on the link below and get a better understanding on the do' and don'ts on treating your catch to keep the quality!

If you can't catch it the article also explains how to pick the perfect fish from your local fishmonger.

http://scentblazer.c...ishRunRisk.aspx

Share on this post the way you look after your catch!!

Tight Lines,

SBC

sooo, leads to the obvious question of where to get seawater ice?

but this is why i only kill my fish on site, and process at home... it can sit in a freshice/saltwater slurry and not get too damaged by the freshwater...

mind you - you need to be extra careful of processing the gut & head, as these have their own bacteria that you don't want to cross-contaminate into the food & processing area...

[Scent Blazer Lures]

sooo, leads to the obvious question of where to get seawater ice?

but this is why i only kill my fish on site, and process at home... it can sit in a freshice/saltwater slurry and not get too damaged by the freshwater...

mind you - you need to be extra careful of processing the gut & head, as these have their own bacteria that you don't want to cross-contaminate into the food & processing area...

Well we simply use thick plastic, water tight bottles and fill with fresh water, freezing them, placing them in saltwater ensuring they do not leak. i.e. 2ltr Orange juice bottles.

Works great.

thanks for the feed back, I like seeing how other people prep their catch as I see to many fisherman leave it in a bucket, no water and in the sun.

[Scent Blazer Lures]

Like to see an article on what freshwater does to freshwater fish!

Hey rads,

Stay posted and we will have an article up on what fresh water does to freshwater fish.

Tight Lines,

SBC

[user1829]

Well we simply use thick plastic, water tight bottles and fill with fresh water, freezing them, placing them in saltwater ensuring they do not leak. i.e. 2ltr Orange juice bottles.

Works great.

thanks for the feed back, I like seeing how other people prep their catch as I see to many fisherman leave it in a bucket, no water and in the sun.

cheers for that - i just wish a i had a proper freezer

plus - i think all the reading up on Ike Jime really taught me a lot about care of fish for the table...

[Scent Blazer Lures]

cheers for that - i just wish a i had a proper freezer

plus - i think all the reading up on Ike Jime really taught me a lot about care of fish for the table...

yea the bottles sure take up a fair bit of room. we use our bait freezer, a chest freezer.

yea i agree, certainly a great/humane way to dispatch a fish.

Tight Lines,

SBC

[Geoff]

yea the bottles sure take up a fair bit of room. we use our bait freezer, a chest freezer.

yea i agree, certainly a great/humane way to dispatch a fish.

Tight Lines,

SBC

I use 4.0lt wine bags , filled with 2 - 3 lt's of water , two lie flat in the bottom of the esky.

In respect to , avoid washing fish in fresh water , the same applies to bait. Any new bait I purchase that needs processing prior to the outing or anything worth keeping after the outing I wash in salt water.

I keep 2 X 2lt botles of saltwater which I fill when out fishing.

Geoff

[Scent Blazer Lures]

I use 4.0lt wine bags , filled with 2 - 3 lt's of water , two lie flat in the bottom of the esky.

In respect to , avoid washing fish in fresh water , the same applies to bait. Any new bait I purchase that needs processing prior to the outing or anything worth keeping after the outing I wash in salt water.

I keep 2 X 2lt botles of saltwater which I fill when out fishing.

Geoff

Hey Geoff,

Thats a brilliant idea!! We will have to employ that idea as it will take up a little less room in the freezer...

I agree 100%, aplies to bait, fish, burley etc

Thanks for sharing your ideas, great ideas!!

Tight Lines,

SBC

[shak4g63]

Hi guys just wondering if I was to bring home saltwater 1. How long before it goes off?

2. If frozen would salt water remain fresh? Once thawed out?

Just curious

Tight lines,

Shakeel

[Scent Blazer Lures]

Hi guys just wondering if I was to bring home saltwater 1. How long before it goes off?

2. If frozen would salt water remain fresh? Once thawed out?

Just curious

Tight lines,

Shakeel

Hey Shakeel,

My thoughts are after a few days saltwater starts to go off as all the living organisms die and decompose, water becomes stagnant.

Anyone out there got a scientific explanation?

As for freezing saltwater, 1. you need some pretty low temperature to freeze it solid but it will freeze to a slush in an everyday domestic freezer.

Tight Lines,

SBC

[Testlab]

To read all about how and why seawater goes off, google up a good marine aquarium suppliers site. Its all to do with nitrite levels which spike two to three days after being put into the aquarium and then stabilize over the next week or so.

A lot of it has to do with death of marine organisms (not to be confused with the 'little death' associated with orgasms).

Edited July 5, 2012 by Testlab

[Time Bandit]

Great topic guy's and valuable information, well done.

cheers

[bream111]

Great thread. I normally bleed and place immedately into an ice slurry. When it is time to clean the fish I fillet and bone my catches. I was told many years ago always only rinse fish in salt water. The next time you fillet a fish wash one in fresh water and the other in salt water. You will notice a huge difference in the texture of the fish. When it is rinsed in salt water the fillet will have silky shiny appearance. When it is rinsed in fresh water it will have withered texture. It also definitely tastes different. Much nicer when rinsed in salt water. Also if you can clean your fish without it using any water it taste better still. You don't wash off the natural oils and fat off the fish.

[CarlRak]

Like bream111, I was told when boning and filleting my catch never to rinse the fillets in fresh water. I never really freeze fish (usually because I don’t catch so much) but if I’m not going to eat the fish immediately I put them in the fridge for a day or two in a Ziploc bag.

To this point, I’ve been making a saltwater solution in the kitchen with tap water and table salt to rinse the fish. Is this OK? Or would it be better to use seawater? Considering the fish is always eaten within a couple of days and is not frozen.

Thanks

[shak4g63]

Guys I'm a convert to salt water washing post filleting fish. So every time I catch a fish I would prep it home in the back yard and use fresh water, and wondered why my fresh fish stank!

Any way after reading this post last weekend I caught a whiting I bled it scaled and filleted it I washed it with saltwater before I left my fishing spot and placed it into a small clean bucket being a cold winter night gave the ice a miss, any way got home sprinkled with a bit of salt and left it in a bowl covered with glad wrap 2 days later cooked it, No fishy SMELL what so ever!!!! I can't. Relieve how awe sum the fish tasted thanks guys for this tip it has me converted and I actually enjoy eating my fresh caught fish thank you,

Tight lines,

Shakeel

[user1829]

i filleted a pair of flatties on sunday, and didnt rinse them afterwards, just blotted off the little bit of blood with a paper towel.

i dont think you need to rinse them at all if you are not freezing them???

[user1829]

Also if you can clean your fish without it using any water it taste better still. You don't wash off the natural oils and fat off the fish.

whoops, just re-read your post! as you can see, I totally agree with this point

[Basil D]

I use 4.0lt wine bags , filled with 2 - 3 lt's of water , two lie flat in the bottom of the esky.

In respect to , avoid washing fish in fresh water , the same applies to bait. Any new bait I purchase that needs processing prior to the outing or anything worth keeping after the outing I wash in salt water.

I keep 2 X 2lt botles of saltwater which I fill when out fishing.

Geoff

Top Idea with the ice bags, thanks for sharing.

[Basil D]

Guys I'm a convert to salt water washing post filleting fish. So every time I catch a fish I would prep it home in the back yard and use fresh water, and wondered why my fresh fish stank!

Any way after reading this post last weekend I caught a whiting I bled it scaled and filleted it I washed it with saltwater before I left my fishing spot and placed it into a small clean bucket being a cold winter night gave the ice a miss, any way got home sprinkled with a bit of salt and left it in a bowl covered with glad wrap 2 days later cooked it, No fishy SMELL what so ever!!!! I can't. Relieve how awe sum the fish tasted thanks guys for this tip it has me converted and I actually enjoy eating my fresh caught fish thank you,

Tight lines,

Shakeel

I always clean my fish onsite, I learned pretty quickly after I washed the fish in plain how they went off.

[barnzey]

SBL Is this the link you placed in your original post?
http://blogs.scentblazer.com/GameFishingBlogs/tabid/723/EntryId/14/Rinse-the-Fish.aspx

Whilst not being a food scientist, fish technologist or a marine biologist I can tell that whilst your observations and method may be correct, the reasoning behind it is not.

Your premise, Freshwater contains natural bacteria, it is the cause of your smelly fish.

Freshwater from the tap will be treated with chlorine, or choroamine to reduce bacteria within the fresh water supply. Whilst most water suppliers don't report all the types of bacteria they do test 'tap' tests for each region and report chlorine levels and common harmful bacteria (such as E.Coli). Bacteria levels are expected to be low, check your local water supplier website.

The bacterial concentration in oceanic surface saltwater would vary considerably but here's a paper which shows for their testing around California they got bacteria counts of 10²-10^4.7/mL depending on the location and culture/count method.
http://www.aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_4/issue_2/0128.pdf

Floral bacteria counts on (alive) fish typically ranges from 10²-10⁷/cm² on skin, 10³-10⁹/g on gills, 10³-10⁹/g within the intestines. Muscle meat is considered sterile. (From end source)

In the presence of air (just) spoiled fish contains typically contains 10⁸-10⁹/g flesh or /cm² skin. If the fish fillet was kept at low temperatures bacteria species Pseudomonas and Alteromonas spp. selectively dominate.

As you can see, the source of bacteria is highly unlikely to be from your drinking tap.

Further info.

If the fish is stored whole, tests on cod show 12-14 days after capture minimal bacteria had invaded muscle tissue when held at low temp. (End source)

Strict hygiene measures from handling whole fish is of minor importance, only difference is observed in later stage of storage. Shelf life reduced from 16 to 12 days (from heavily contaminated storage items to aseptic containers). (End source)

Fish Spoilage
Spoilage of fish is a combination of cell autolysis, enzyme activity and bacteria. Enzymes such as Cathepsin D promote degradation of cell proteins to peptides, when a cell dies this is food for bacteria.

Trimethylamine-N-oxide is a metabolite (energy source) and osmolyte (regulates water pressure within living cells) found in fish.

The fishy smell that comes from fish shops is Trimethylamine. It is a result of bacteria reducing (aka eating) the Trimethylamine-N-oxide. So the more bacteria converting Trimethylamine-N-oxide to Trimethylamine, the smellier the fish and the quicker the spoilage. (End source)

What I believe is happening
I believe the difference in rinsing a fillet of fish with fresh water compared to salt water is due to a process of osmosis and diffusion.

An average fish muscle contains: Na⁺, K⁺, P, Ca²⁺, Mg²⁺ at 72, 278, 190, 79, 38mg/100g muscle. Approx 1-2% dissolved salt content + other compounds dissolved within the cell plasma. (http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tan/x5916e/x5916e01.htm and end source)

These dissolved items give the fish muscle a higher osmotic pressure than the fresh water you are rinsing with (check salt contents with your water provider). The water moves into surface muscle cells via osmosis until it bursts, this may happen whilst you are rinsing or in the minutes following. Burst muscle cells can't retain water so surface fillet texture and flavour is lost. If cell lysis occurs after rinsing, the proteins and enzymes within the cell are more readily available as food for bacteria. Cathepsin D is activated by water, accelerating bacteria growth.

Salt water has a salt content of 3.5g/100g water, 3.5% dissolved salt content and not many other dissolved compounds.

This makes salt water similar in osmotic pressure to the muscle cells of salt water fish fillet. No significant intake or outtake of water from the cell occurs thus texture is preserved.

Cathepsin D is deactivated by salt water, enzyme activity is completely diminished by a 5% NaCl (salt) solution. Proteins are kept intact, thus flavour remains unaltered

If anyone is studying in the area of food technology, it would be good to hear your thoughts on this.

Beware of supercooling your fish in your esky.
Using saltwater ice (ie freezing saltwater as blocks of ice) can cause partial freezing of your fish which would ruin the texture. Saltwater (ocean water) does not freeze homogeneously, the last bit to freeze (or defrost) occurs at -21C at 23% salt whilst the first bit which freezes (or last to defrost) occurs at 0C with ~0% salt. Most bony fish begin to freeze at -0.8C.
This means with saltwater ice blocks, in salt water with your fish could have the temperature at -5C, which would freeze 62% of your fish. This is equivalent of freezing (cooling fish)-->unfreezing (to fillet) -->freezing (storage for dinner in a month) --> unfreezing (dinner). Not good for the texture of your fish.

What SBL mentioned,

Well we simply use thick plastic, water tight bottles and fill with fresh water, freezing them, placing them in saltwater ensuring they do not leak. i.e. 2ltr Orange juice bottles.

is what I do too. With fresh water in your bottles, the temperature of the saltwater will not dip below 0C.


I don't wash my fillet in fresh or salt water. But the reasoning for that will be saved for another thread.


End Ref:
Fresh Fish - Quality and Quality Changes: A Training Manual Prepared for the FAO/DANIDA Training Programme on Fish Technology and Quality Control, H. H. Huss, 1988
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=50vKuTi-65AC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Edited March 16, 2013 by Barnzey

[adjustedpete]

Wow... Thanx for that info. I for 1 will be changing my fish storage practices from now on. I'm guilty of washing the fillets in fresh water.

[Scent Blazer Lures]

SBL Is this the link you placed in your original post?

http://blogs.scentblazer.com/GameFishingBlogs/tabid/723/EntryId/14/Rinse-the-Fish.aspx

Whilst not being a food scientist, fish technologist or a marine biologist I can tell that whilst your observations and method may be correct, the reasoning behind it is not.

Your premise, Freshwater contains natural bacteria, it is the cause of your smelly fish.

Freshwater from the tap will be treated with chlorine, or choroamine to reduce bacteria within the fresh water supply. Whilst most water suppliers don't report all the types of bacteria they do test 'tap' tests for each region and report chlorine levels and common harmful bacteria (such as E.Coli). Bacteria levels are expected to be low, check your local water supplier website.

The bacterial concentration in oceanic surface saltwater would vary considerably but here's a paper which shows for their testing around California they got bacteria counts of 10²-10^4.7/mL depending on the location and culture/count method.

http://www.aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_4/issue_2/0128.pdf

Floral bacteria counts on (alive) fish typically ranges from 10²-10⁷/cm² on skin, 10³-10⁹/g on gills, 10³-10⁹/g within the intestines. Muscle meat is considered sterile. (From end source)

In the presence of air (just) spoiled fish contains typically contains 10⁸-10⁹/g flesh or /cm² skin. If the fish fillet was kept at low temperatures bacteria species Pseudomonas and Alteromonas spp. selectively dominate.

As you can see, the source of bacteria is highly unlikely to be from your drinking tap.

Further info.

If the fish is stored whole, tests on cod show 12-14 days after capture minimal bacteria had invaded muscle tissue when held at low temp. (End source)

Strict hygiene measures from handling whole fish is of minor importance, only difference is observed in later stage of storage. Shelf life reduced from 16 to 12 days (from heavily contaminated storage items to aseptic containers). (End source)

Fish Spoilage

Spoilage of fish is a combination of cell autolysis, enzyme activity and bacteria. Enzymes such as Cathepsin D promote degradation of cell proteins to peptides, when a cell dies this is food for bacteria.

Trimethylamine-N-oxide is a metabolite (energy source) and osmolyte (regulates water pressure within living cells) found in fish.

The fishy smell that comes from fish shops is Trimethylamine. It is a result of bacteria reducing (aka eating) the Trimethylamine-N-oxide. So the more bacteria converting Trimethylamine-N-oxide to Trimethylamine, the smellier the fish and the quicker the spoilage. (End source)

What I believe is happening

I believe the difference in rinsing a fillet of fish with fresh water compared to salt water is due to a process of osmosis and diffusion.

An average fish muscle contains: Na⁺, K⁺, P, Ca²⁺, Mg²⁺ at 72, 278, 190, 79, 38mg/100g muscle. Approx 1-2% dissolved salt content + other compounds dissolved within the cell plasma. (http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tan/x5916e/x5916e01.htm and end source)

These dissolved items give the fish muscle a higher osmotic pressure than the fresh water you are rinsing with (check salt contents with your water provider). The water moves into surface muscle cells via osmosis until it bursts, this may happen whilst you are rinsing or in the minutes following. Burst muscle cells can't retain water so surface fillet texture and flavour is lost. If cell lysis occurs after rinsing, the proteins and enzymes within the cell are more readily available as food for bacteria. Cathepsin D is activated by water, accelerating bacteria growth.

Salt water has a salt content of 3.5g/100g water, 3.5% dissolved salt content and not many other dissolved compounds.

This makes salt water similar in osmotic pressure to the muscle cells of salt water fish fillet. No significant intake or outtake of water from the cell occurs thus texture is preserved.

Cathepsin D is deactivated by salt water, enzyme activity is completely diminished by a 5% NaCl (salt) solution. Proteins are kept intact, thus flavour remains unaltered

If anyone is studying in the area of food technology, it would be good to hear your thoughts on this.

Beware of supercooling your fish in your esky.

Using saltwater ice (ie freezing saltwater as blocks of ice) can cause partial freezing of your fish which would ruin the texture. Saltwater (ocean water) does not freeze homogeneously, the last bit to freeze (or defrost) occurs at -21C at 23% salt whilst the first bit which freezes (or last to defrost) occurs at 0C with ~0% salt. Most bony fish begin to freeze at -0.8C.

This means with saltwater ice blocks, in salt water with your fish could have the temperature at -5C, which would freeze 62% of your fish. This is equivalent of freezing (cooling fish)-->unfreezing (to fillet) -->freezing (storage for dinner in a month) --> unfreezing (dinner). Not good for the texture of your fish.

What SBL mentioned,

is what I do too. With fresh water in your bottles, the temperature of the saltwater will not dip below 0C.

I don't wash my fillet in fresh or salt water. But the reasoning for that will be saved for another thread.

End Ref:

Fresh Fish - Quality and Quality Changes: A Training Manual Prepared for the FAO/DANIDA Training Programme on Fish Technology and Quality Control, H. H. Huss, 1988

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=50vKuTi-65AC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Wow, awesome find Barnzey!! very in depth look at it, much appreciated.

[dogtooth]

You can make up a saltwater ice slurry using rocksalt and water in a small esky , fully dissolve the rocksalt before you add the ice , cut your filets or cutlets and place them in the slurry . When its time to bag them up to freeze ,or for the table just use a strainer and pull your fillets out 1 by 1 giving them a wash as you do it . You will be amazed at the dirty slurry water when finished and your fillets are below zero as the slurry is so cold . Hope this helps .

Cheers dogtooth.

[Marlin01]

Just to weigh in as it were, we have tried rinsing fish in both salt and fresh water and noticed very little difference in the finished product. I will point out that both rinses were chilled with fresh water ice.

The is the point I would make clear is that we process (fillet skin and bone) each fish one at a time to prevent temp rise. We have definitively noticed a drop in fillet quality when certain fish (especially soft fleshed fish like Mackeral and dollies) are kept in an salt water fresh ice slurry.

We vacuum pack all our fish we intend to freeze and this is awesome in ensuring fish quality up to 12 mths after capture.

I clean and eat a lot of fish and have never noticed an offensive odur from any fresh fish, all of which have been kept well chilled on lots of ice (I bought a 150kg a day ice machine). It certainly is incredible how many fish you see kept with little or no ice especially when holidaying on the North coast (SWR). All the money these anglers spend on boats, tackle and fuel and won't splurge $20 for a few bags of ice. I certainly find it almost humorous especially the blokes with big dollies or marlin laying on the deck with no cooling applied at all, not even a wet towel and then they say the flesh is all grey and mushy, SURPRISE.

Anyhow like beer, fish need ice and lots of it IMHO.

Cheers

Marlin

[barnzey]

Marlin01, do you rinse your fish or do you rinse your fillets? Whole fish have a fatty skin barrier which would slow cell autolysis of internal muscle tissue, skinless fillets do not.