Who gives way when drifting?

[Mutt]

Was talking to a sailing mate recently about a recent experience I had near Towra. We were leisurely drifting back up the river in search for flathead when basically a whole armada of junior sailors surrounded us. We had to wind up and carefully motor out of there as our lines could have been cut they were that close. I know I have to give way when under power but what's the rule when drifting? My sailing mate couldn't answer, he just said he regularly runs over fishing lines!!!! Will deal with him later....

[Dalucius]

From the Maritime handbook -

A vessel drifting is deemed to be underway and has no special right of way. It is required to comply with the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea.

[Mutt]

Thank you so much, mustn't have got that question in my boating exam!

[Guest Aussie007]

Mutt thats a pretty bad spot for small sailing boats ive had the same problem near the first bridge there like going near a bee's nest! they come that close to your boat its not really funny if a gust of wind flips them into your boat im sure that'll hurt as they do around 50kph or faster and come latterly within 3 meters of your boat one time i was anchored i thought the guy was going to hit my anchor line its just crazy they have the whole river to sail in yet they come so close i think its there way of pissing off boaters from there territory? surely you'd have enough brains to stay clear unless otherwise

[BFB]

Part of the problems is that all the requirements are about avoiding collisions. They are not about not cutting through fishing lines. Therefore providing they avoid a collision, under the law, they can come as close to you as they want. The rules are for all users of the waterways and not just fisherman.

Sometimes we need to remember that we are just another user of the waterways and just because we want to catch fish it does not give us any special previleges.

[Guest Aussie007]

Part of the problems is that all the requirements are about avoiding collisions. They are not about not cutting through fishing lines. Therefore providing they avoid a collision, under the law, they can come as close to you as they want. The rules are for all users of the waterways and not just fisherman.

Sometimes we need to remember that we are just another user of the waterways and just because we want to catch fish it does not give us any special previleges.

they need to keep the minimum distance to another vessel which they clearly dont

[shak4g63]

Part of the problems is that all the requirements are about avoiding collisions. They are not about not cutting through fishing lines. Therefore providing they avoid a collision, under the law, they can come as close to you as they want. The rules are for all users of the waterways and not just fisherman.

Sometimes we need to remember that we are just another user of the waterways and just because we want to catch fish it does not give us any special previleges.

special privileges? I thought we "paid" for that with our fishing license, there's no such thing as a sailing license! ..... I feel for these guys it's hard enough to get out on the water in the first place considering, costs: fish lic, boat lic, boat & safety gear, regos, insurance, fishing gear, tackle, baits, fuel, food, drinks, and most importantly earning brownie from the mrs, and then the freaken weather n tides to catch some bloody fish! I thought this was relaxing time!!!! But seriously!!! We need to share our water ways it belongs to everyone we need to have common sense and courtesy when it comes to water safety obviously these jr guys should really be careful and us fishermen should try and find some spots which are more secluded to avoid any incidents!! Just my 2 cents :-)

Tight lines,

Shakeel

[Guest Aussie007]

special privileges? I thought we "paid" for that with our fishing license, there's no such thing as a sailing license! ..... I feel for these guys it's hard enough to get out on the water in the first place considering, costs: fish lic, boat lic, boat & safety gear, regos, insurance, fishing gear, tackle, baits, fuel, food, drinks, and most importantly earning brownie from the mrs, and then the freaken weather n tides to catch some bloody fish! I thought this was relaxing time!!!! But seriously!!! We need to share our water ways it belongs to everyone we need to have common sense and courtesy when it comes to water safety obviously these jr guys should really be careful and us fishermen should try and find some spots which are more secluded to avoid any incidents!! Just my 2 cents :-) Tight lines, Shakeel

sadly its not only the juniors my first incident in the bay was with a grown man on one of those 1-2 people high speed sailing boats

these little boats are found on the weekend anywhere from the captain cooks bridge to towra point if anyone navigates this section keep an eye out for them would hate to see someone actually ran over

[BFB]

they need to keep the minimum distance to another vessel which they clearly dont

What is the minimum distance? I do not think there is any specified so long as an accident does not occur.

special privileges? I thought we "paid" for that with our fishing license, there's no such thing as a sailing license! ..... I feel for these guys it's hard enough to get out on the water in the first place considering, costs: fish lic, boat lic, boat & safety gear, regos, insurance, fishing gear, tackle, baits, fuel, food, drinks, and most importantly earning brownie from the mrs, and then the freaken weather n tides to catch some bloody fish! I thought this was relaxing time!!!! But seriously!!! We need to share our water ways it belongs to everyone we need to have common sense and courtesy when it comes to water safety obviously these jr guys should really be careful and us fishermen should try and find some spots which are more secluded to avoid any incidents!! Just my 2 cents :-) Tight lines, Shakeel

Unfortnately paying of our fishing licenses does not give us any special privileges on the water. It only allows us to fish.

The real truth is not if an accident was to occurr the blame could go either way but the law of the water is that a vessel under sail has the right of way over a vessel under power and as stated earlier, drifting is the same as being under power. I know it is not idea but it is the law.

The best thing we can do is to try and find a secluded spot away from the sailing boats. Not easy I know.

[Guest Aussie007]

here u go guys while your drifting your engaging fishing

The master must continuously assess the risk of collision with other vessels.
Power vessels must give way to:

• Sailing vessels.
• Vessels approaching head on (by altering course to starboard).
• Vessels approaching from the right (starboard) hand side (ie, crossing).
• Vessels displaying the special lights and signals shown in this chapter.
• Large vessels restricted in their manoeuvrability.
• Any vessel being overtaken.
• Vessels engaged in fishing activities and showing appropriate signals.

A vessel drifting is deemed to be underway and has no special right of way. It is required to comply with the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea.

Do not create a dangerous situation by forcing your right of way. Always keep a safe distance off other vessels so the vessel can be stopped or manoeuvred to avoid any sudden danger.

The faster the speed, the greater the safe distance must be.

When altering course make your intentions clear to others as early as possible.

so they can be held accountable if something happen i reckon a sailing boat doing 50kph over a boat drifting in court it would be clear whos in the wrong

Edited January 30, 2013 by gazza

[BFB]

Only problem with the quote is the first part which states "Power vessels must give way to". We are talking about sailing vessels and this requirement makes it clear that the sailing vessel has a right of way over a power vessel and even a driting vessel.

We might not like it but it is the law.

[Mutt]

Another disappointing part of the tale was there was an adult supervisor in a tinny, keeping an eye on proceedings. Surely he could have motored up to me and given me a heads up? This has happened a number of times now, I know the water is there for all to share but I think what angers me the most is the attitude of the sailing fraternity, like I was encroaching on their space when their race started at the sailing club right under Captain Cook and I was a couple of km away. There were also no marker buoys etc either. Anyhow, the boating law is the law....

[Guest Aussie007]

NOTE: In a collision, all masters involved can be held responsible even if the give-way vessel does not give way, because all masters are required to exercise caution and take avoiding action if the other vessel does not.

the maritime web site also states the above http://www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/sbh/safety_on_the_water/safety_on.html

[DrownNprawns]

in the rules posted above "the overtaking vessel must give way" so to add to that as gazz said they are going faster than you and are over taking they must give way

that is the way I see it

David

[Guest Aussie007]

yup so if your drifting and the sailing boat is doing 50kph and they crash into you im sure they would be at fault next time im out there im going to take a video on my phone of these idiots that come with in 3 meters of my boat at high speeds and email it to maritime to see what they think of it

[arpie]

Common sense should prevail (even if you are in the 'right') - and if you think the other vessel hasn't seen you or won't be altering course to avoid a collision - I'd be getting out of there, quick smart!

It has happened to me in my kayak many times. Taking evasive action from idiot boaters who have the front of their tinny in the air so they can't see what is ahead of them!

No point having 'But I was in the Right' on your gravestone!

[Geoff]

• Vessels engaged in fishing activities and showing appropriate signals.

What are the "appropriate signals" ??

I assume it does not mean throwing sinkers , shouting abuse or offending hand signals.

Geoff

[kingiemaster]

• Vessels engaged in fishing activities and showing appropriate signals.

What are the "appropriate signals" ??

I assume it does not mean throwing sinkers , shouting abuse or offending hand signals.

Geoff

This refers to commercial fishing vessels not rec fishers. Those signals are specific shapes and lights depending on the fishing activity.

However, I think it would be a great idea if a trolling flag or something similar was introduced so that boats giving way to starboard can choose not to give way by crossing the bow of a trolling boat or gave them say 60 metres across the stern. As it stands there nothing stopping the giving way to starboard boat from crossing a the stern of trolling rec fisher as close as they like if doing less than 10 knots or at least 30 metres if doing more than 10 knots whic still may not be enough for some people that like to have the lures more than 30 metres out the back.

[kingiemaster]

Drifting and giving way

As all ready stated drifting is still considered being underway and you must give way to all vessels to your starboard/right and any or all vessels under sail. In a t bone situation (where the drifting vessels is perpendicular to the vessel approaching from starboard) this could mean that the drifting boat has to go astern to allow the starboard passing vessel to cross their bow.

Conversely an approaching boat coming towards a drifting vessel's port or left side must give way to the drifting vessel by going to starboard (and therefore crossing the stern) . If doing more than 10 knots the passing/giving way vessel must give the drifting vessel at least 30 metres of room but if doing less than 10 knots, eg in the 4 knot zone through the Spit, you could in theory go as close as you like, SO long as you are not exceeding any 4 or 8 knot speed limits.

This opens up a can of worms as in this instance the passing vessel (including sailing vessels) can cut across the drifting boats stern as close as they like cutting across any lines out the back. The same is true of giving way to a starboard boat that is trolling lures at the back.

[Guest Aussie007]

anyone who has half a brain looks out for trolling fisherman lol if they dont they can keep my $25 xrap and 10 meters of line wrapped around there propeller shaft it will cost them $500 shortly after for a gearbox rebuild lol

[kingiemaster]

they need to keep the minimum distance to another vessel which they clearly dont

yup so if your drifting and the sailing boat is doing 50kph and they crash into you im sure they would be at fault next time im out there im going to take a video on my phone of these idiots that come with in 3 meters of my boat at high speeds and email it to maritime to see what they think of it

Once again if you are drifting you must give way to sailing vessels regardless of what speed they are doing.

I don't know of many sailing boats that come even close to those speeds. Most would be lucky to more than 15 knots or 30 km/h downwind. SOME skiffs (16s and 18s), sail boards, Moths (hydrofoil keel) and the current America's Cup cats are about the only sailing vessels I know of that can do those kinds of speeds in enclosed waters.

In fact most sailing vessels would struggle to do more than 10 knots so can in fact come as close as they like to anchored boats or overtaking a drifting vessel, fishing or otherwise. That doesn't mean they should but sailing is not an exact science and it can be very hard to manoeuvre a decent sized yacht in enclosed waters especially if the wind is variable and very light or very strong. Just like fishing things don't always go to plan when sailing and sometimes things go wrong. This could prevent a sailing vessel being able to "tack" over or even steer properly. So if your drifting you might just have to get out of the way unfortunately.

If they are indeed doing more than 10 knots as they pass you (anchored) then yes they should do so at no less than 30 metres.

[kingiemaster]

anyone who has half a brain looks out for trolling fisherman lol if they dont they can keep my $25 xrap and 10 meters of line wrapped around there propeller shaft it will cost them $500 shortly after for a gearbox rebuild lol

The point is that they don't have to and in fact MUST cross stern if giving way to starboard its just a question of how close. Nor does it stop fisherman jumping up and down waving at the back of their boats when some with no idea crosses their stern (doing the right thing). If you have your lures more than 30 metres out the back then its unreasonable to expect the boat giving way to avoid your lines.

[Guest Aussie007]

go for a fish in the georges river/botany bay on a nice windy weekend unless your one of those sailors i doubt you'll be defending them

[zook2001]

The point is that they don't have to and in fact MUST cross stern if giving way to starboard its just a question of how close. Nor does it stop fisherman jumping up and down waving at the back of their boats when some with no idea crosses their stern (doing the right thing). If you have your lures more than 30 metres out the back then its unreasonable to expect the boat giving way to avoid your lines.

The main intent of the give way to sail rule seems be to do with a keeled craft lack of maneuverability in a narrow channel, if a sailing boat can't cross on the correct side without grounding then they have right of way to pass on the incorrect side. Whether they have right of way in more open waters or can tack towards you is up for debate,I'd imagine there would be shared responsibility in case of collision.

[Scratchie]

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 bob worth. Ban sailing vessels full stop! If they are to close to me, it's time to drop anchor. Sorry if their boat is in my way as I throw it!

Cheers scratchie!!!