arpie Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) Hi guys As we all know, there are expensive lures and there are cheap lures. Cheap lures catch just as many fish as the expensive lures ...... and don't hurt the pocket as much when you lose one to a big fish or a snag!James Heddon is widely regarded as the inventor of artificial lures, when he was whittling a bit of wood beside a stream & chucked it in the water. Moments later, a large bass BOOFED the surface, eventually (after many attempts) engulfing the 'bit of wood' and the lure industry was about to begin! I still use Heddon Zara Puppies and other ' classic lures' as invented by him ...... some of his more famous lures are the Runts, Torpedos, Minnows Then, basically, others then started to 'copy' his lures & eventually he sold his company & it has changed hands many time since ...... but they are still making lures today, tho mainly in plastic now. So ...... many hard body lures on the market today can still trace it's roots back to the late 1800s and James Heddon. Do you buy the 'original' lure as put out by the designers ..... or do you go with the 'copies', which may be appreciably cheaper and still catch as many fish as the original tho not necessarily be the same quality? Personally, I use a mix of both - often depending on price and availability ...... just take a look at all the HBs and SPs out there - it is not THAT often that an innovative 'totally new' design hits the market, - many have been based on someone else's idea and just changed marginally to give a slightly different design ...... to avoid copyright issues. Take this one, for example - I can see that there is a 'bump' on the 'copy' that isn't on the original, there are 'eyes' on the copy (fat end) that isn't on the original, it is using different stripe patterns than the original - I wouldn't call this an exact copy of the original Ecogear PX45 - just a 'similar lookalike'! But some DO call it identical and get upset about it, calling it cheating? Admittedly they have added the 'whiskers' that really make it look more like the original - What do you reckon?? Similar but different, or the same? No product bashing, please - just wanting to see who uses what. Everyone knows that I love Sammys ..... I've tried some 'lookalikes' but they just haven't come up as good as the originals - so that is one that I 'stay with the original'!! I guess I'll have to try the PX45 'lookalike' just to see how it goes, eh?? cheers Roberta Edited December 14, 2013 by Roberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefish Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 generally not. Particularly in hard bodys, many cheap copy lures look good in the shop, however lose their finish - are fitted with rubbish hardware, or never run properly etc, Any money wasted on these could have gone towards a "good" lure. I feel all good lures have a dimension we do understand, either a sound or vibration that really does the trick, in addition to being about the right size,shape and colour. Do you find some lures just keep getting bit, then its identical replacement doesnt have the same mojo. I reckon ebay would have some really good cheapies, unfortunately you need to do all their development and weed out piles...and piles of rubbish between the good ones. but i buy fake TT blades for half price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpie Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 ...but i buy fake TT blades for half price..... Is that because you lose them to snags too much, or big fish (I hope) ...... I got a bunch of the real ones when they first came out & just haven't mastered them yet (other than losing them to big flatties!) Only ever caught on small bream on them (on knock offs as well!!) Yeah, got some lookalikes too - also Bushy's & other 'top brand' ones. I tend to use some of the knock offs in the racks, cos I prefer not to lose all my best (make that 'most expensive') ones that I know work well on the flats as well ..... why throw in a suicide cast, when you can offer a sacrificial lamb?? Then, if not getting a bite in the racks, I will bite the bullet & chuck a sammy or a jackall & get whacked & cracked! Yep, definitely agree on the hardware of the knock offs generally being disappointing .... you would kick yourself if you didn't change it & lose that trophy fish! That knockoff of the PX45 - I'd be prepared to give it a go - I have had great success with them in leases here, when the water is JUST covering the lease - bring it over the top & into the alley & usually a bluenose bream will follow it out & smash it & take it home with him!! (after thumbing his nose at me!) I've had Chubbys smashed and lookalikes smashed in the racks ..... I keep going back to Gulp Shrimp & grubs because 'they work' pretty well anywhere ...... I've got a bunch of knock off hard body cicadas that I'll hand out to my brothers tho to use over Xmas - rather than have them lose my Tiemco or Sigletts .... otherwise THIS would happen!! cheerio Roberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Interesting I usually look at the price of copy's as I generally wont touch a $5 copy of a $20 lure but will look at a $12 copy for example I use a lot of sinking stick baits mainly austackle shinkus which are pretty close to a copy of the tiemco stick minnow and under half the price I lose a lot of them to tailor pike and flatties One of the observations I have found though is when the fish are on the chew they will take the copy's but when it is tough the originals will work much better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpie Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 ....One of the observations I have found though is when the fish are on the chew they will take the copy's but when it is tough the originals will work much better ...... A VERY good point!! Thank you! I must remember that! Hmmm, Interesting theory on the price factor, too ...... any other 'copies' have you have found to as good (almost) as the originals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Looking in my tackle box I'm trying to determine what is a copy(how much different does a lure need to be to not be a copy?) I really don't think I have any others the closest maybe the lures that look similar to a sugapen but I am yet to give them a good run I haven't even looked at buying any new lures lately as the shinkus and atomic bream shads have been working too well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpie Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 Yep, I have the Strada Virals too (sugapen knockoff) & they go great guns on bream & flatties & whiting up here tho I can still cast the Sammy further even into wind! I will willingly put one in the racks and keep my sugapen for the flats! I put trailing hooks on one strada recently & brought it back quickly over the shallows & had a good hit from a flattie, so cast again & got him next go!! I reckon most lures are a essentially a copy of something else - unless someone is REALLY innovative & comes up with something COMPLETELY different - tho I am having difficulty thinking of one recently - tho I guess the Gulp 'biodegradable' may have been a huge stepup in the SPs. Most are often just a change of colours or stripes or brighter eyes - I am still 'out with the jury' re the UV thing tho I DO reckon the fluro (glow underwater) Berkley Shads etc are terrific on big offshore fish. In know of ONE big snapper with some bling on his chin in NZ! Blades have been around for 30 years - all have most of the diving lures - minnows and shads as well as all the topwaters/poppers - just in different sizes ..... some refining of shape - but the basic use of them is the same ..... Whoever made their lures 'hover by design' - now that was an innovative change that many have now copied - tho it is easy enough to add a bit of weight to slowly rising ones to 'make them hover' ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefin Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Hi Roberta, I started using Rebel Crawdad lures about 35 years ago and still they are my first choice. But I was in Port a couple of years ago and came across some Smiling Jack lures for $5 each. They work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpie Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) He, he, Smiling Jacks - one of Swordies fav from years back ..... I've caught some nice fish on that front R/H side 'flesh coloured' ones (I still have quite a few) matter of fact, I've been busted off by good bream on them in the racks! ..... even after the paint has come off & it is clear!! The purple one is a gun bass lure in the NSW dams, too Plus I've got some crawdads, but never had much success with them - yet! Oh dear ...... This may be embarrassing - I think I have all the originals & copies of same!! Any other 'lookalikes' to see if I've got them too?? Edited December 15, 2013 by Roberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abecedarian Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I have a few ecogear sx40 lures and a few copies that cost half the price or less. The copies have had plenty of use and have held up well from the finish perspective and their hardware was fine. But when it comes to how they swim, it's chalk and cheese. The copies, no matter how much I tweak them, just will not swim in a straight line and have a very loose and sloppy action. The ecogear lures however swim true with no work and have a much tighter and realistic action. The cheap lures will catch fish and in some cases more fish like when fishing snags where the expensive lures may not make it to the strike zone for fear of losing them. But there is a reason you pay more for an ecogear or similar. I have the cheap ones and use them often but always have just as many of the better quality lures to use when the fishing is harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordy Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Them smiling jacks!the missus went shopping one day and asked if needed anything I replied go and buy me a new lure,I wouldn't know what to buy she said.My reply was just surprise me and she came home with a bright pink smiling jack lure(same as front left of above picture)of course I acted very greatful.Couple of days later after a couple of fruitless hours bank bashing for bass I threw out this pink thing and about six casts later whack a nice mid 30's the only one for the trip.Who knows what our target species think as we swim our lumps of metal and plastic at them.Steve Starling has recently published some interesting stuff on how fish vision works through the water layers and light spectrums sort of leads me to believe that colour is not that important.I strongly believe that if the lure is practical for the target species and your confident in its use and likely success your more likely to come up trumps then using a lure your scared of losing for financial reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyNurse Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I had a 2" Rebel Crawdad I'd had for ages. (Stopped fishing for many years, so still had some of my novice purchases from the '80's). So I tied it on one day and with 1/2 hour, I landed two small bass from a Cattai Creek tributary. Later that day, I snagged it on a tree on the opposite bank. I couldn't retrieve it due to poor weather at the time, so bought a new one. After I was able to breath again, I handed over $20 for said lure. A few weeks after that, I bought a three pack of 4" copies from the big K for the "too good to be true" price of $5. First time out, without any lure tweaking, I chucked one out and got smashed by what felt like a good bass, only to have it spit the lure. On close inspection, I found that the two trebles were close enough to foul each other. That would not have helped. Plus, the other two in the pack needed lots of work to get them just to swim true. On the other hand, I hooked up a beautiful 80cm lizard on an el cheapo TT look alike blade. Unfortunately, I dropped when I turned to grab the landing net and lowered the rod tip. I have to put that down to user error. All in all, I'd be happy to go with cheaper look alikes in blades and SP's, but would be more circumspect when it comes to HB's, as there are more facets to a good HB design that you just can't emulate without much testing and engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassboy888 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I must admit I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to originals or knockoffs. BUT I must admit thats because I love the finish of the pricey lures. Companies have put in alot of money to develop them and get them swimming correctly, so the copies just dont give me as much faith! As well as that I have found you will find more dud lures in the copies than the original (taking on water or not swimming straight). Then again thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhype Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) The way I see it is if you are already spending tens of thousand on rods/reels/boat etc what is a few extra $$ on quality lures / jigs? With only a limited amount of time available to hit the water I want to make sure the lures i'm using are proven and work..... don't want to worry about cheapy lures swimming sideways! In saying that sometime you have to wonder how they can charge $30 for a Jackall TN50 when Kokoda G-Vibe knock offs are $5 !!! $30 Jackall $5 G Vibe Edited December 16, 2013 by dhype Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpie Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 ....how they can charge $30 for a Jackall TN50 when Kokoda G-Vibe knock offs are $5 !!!..... Yeah - sadly, because they can! Also, they sponsor a lot of pro fishermen & fishing events, so need to recoup some of that money, I guess ....they rely on the success of their sponsored fishos to generate sales for their products. I'll still play both sides .... mainly cos I am on a fixed income & just can't really afford all the top shelf lures, much as I'd like to I sneak the odd one in tho, when Keith isn't looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratchie Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I have caught many a fish using both types. I think it's more the anglers ability than anything. However with that said, the hardware on some copies are not as good and has resulted in few big fish lost! When fishing the racks in my area I only ever use copies as the amount of lost lures could make for an expensive day on the water! Cheers scratchie!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombora Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 One reason the name lures cost a lot is the makers start from scratch; refining the shapes, colours, swimming actions, materials etc etc. Add the cost of quality hooks and rings. Then there's marketing and advertising costs etc etc. The copycat scum of this world don't. Yep I've bough the odd el cheapo but get the guilts. Support the lure makers who actually create not copy. How would you feel if you created a new lure after many years effort, only to see a knock off factory in China rip off your idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Personally I opt for the cheaper options these days. Mainly because iv used both and the cheaper lures have out performed the more expensive lures. My favourite small king/sambo lure is a $12 no name hardbody which has outdone my $30 rapala lures. I caught my first Jew on a $9 blade. The thing you are compromising is the quality if the finish and how easily It gets damaged and in some cases the trebles. Harry If it's to good to be true, it usually is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpie Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) No aggro, please. Many (make that 'most') lures are basically copies of someone else's original idea, with slight variations - a change in shape, size, in eye colour or paint job ...... pretty well every top water lure is an imitation of that original Heddon Lure - and I believe he made the original diving lures as well - cos he was the only one making them!Heddon also was making blades 20-30 years ago ..... The Heddon Sonar Blade (and I have some of them too!) ..... which are pretty well what every other blade shape/weight is based on - with slight changes! In recent years, they were 're-invented' here in Aussie by numerous lure makers including Bushy, TT & others ..... but they didn't think up the original idea or design!! Pretty well all cicada lures are based on their Crazy Crawlers and their Torpedo range are famous in their own right! They've got a hollow frog with trailing bits of rubber that has probably been around since year DOT - and only this year, Carl Jocumsen has 'discovered them' and people here are buying the 'copies' .... (ooops - the Snagproof Company invented the first hollow frog just after WW2)It is everyone's choice to buy the original or the copy - if you want to support the originals (and I do on many occasions) just do so. Edited December 20, 2013 by Roberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paikea Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I have a cedar lure that was made by Eric Moller, Vic McCristal's mate. Black with yellow spots and a Zink anneal bib it looks like nothing but it sure as hell caught fish. Being a classic it has been retired for many years. I will try to post a pic soon. Cheers Paikea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I have a cedar lure that was made by Eric Moller, Vic McCristal's mate. Black with yellow spots and a Zink anneal bib it looks like nothing but it sure as hell caught fish. Being a classic it has been retired for many years. I will try to post a pic soon. Cheers Paikea Worth a lot on the vintage lure market Eric Mollers lures were a hand carved design based on the Heddon Tiger I was fascinated by Vic McCristals articles in fishing mags as a kid and that is what got me into lure fishing I was also fortunate to meet him in the early eighties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paikea Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Worth a lot on the vintage lure market Eric Mollers lures were a hand carved design based on the Heddon Tiger I was fascinated by Vic McCristals articles in fishing mags as a kid and that is what got me into lure fishing I was also fortunate to meet him in the early eighties You are kidding me, there is a market for old lures? Below are pics of the Moller lure and an old lure that I have had in my box but hardly used. I have a feeling it may be one of the Heddon lures that Roberta spoke about. The old lure has a waxy substance exuding from it that leaves a grey look, can be wiped off but feel that it should be polished if possible. anybody know how to do that. I like the shape of the old lure and for years planned to copy it using some red Aussie cedar that I had. Never did get around to it. Roberta can you throw any light on the second lure? Cheers Paikea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) Yep that's a Heddon Had a few myself mostly lost to mangrove jacks And there is quite a market for old aussie hand made lures Edited December 20, 2013 by The Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Heres an old abu killer and an old rebel both 70s vintage killer top rebel bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpie Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 ....Eric Mollers lures were a hand carved design based on the Heddon Tiger.... See ..... another copy!! Yep - big value in the older lures (and not so old as well ..... 70s, 80s stuff.) Just google "old lures'' and you'll get an idea. There are some dedicated Aussie Lure forums too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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