Bracey Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Was just after some advise on drag settings. Setup is Spheros 10000FB rated to 15kg drag and 50lb braid to 80lb FC leader and 100g knife jigs. Have been getting a few at the inshore reefs, water depth around 12 to 20m. Most fish around the 70cm mark and even these felt a handful with the drag set around 7kg. I have had the hooks pull a couple of times and I thought this was due to the drag being set too high. I assumed I shouldn't have the drag too low though as I'm always hopeful of hooking a hoodlum (still waiting) and was also worried about getting reefed in shallow water. What drag do you guys recommend in this situation. Cheers, Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2153 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Id up your gear to 80lb and 80 to 100lb wind on leader for that hoodlum in 12 to 20m if water against a hoodlum with 7kg of drag you don't stand a chance I reckon especially since the reel is rated at twice what your running, I would run more drag with that pound line but otherwise you'll start getting breakages I normally set my rods up @ 20% breaking strain of the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 i usually run my drag just off being locked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossfire63 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Your drag should be set to 2/3 the breaking strain of the line, but I'd be checking the condition of the drag if you're struggling with little kings on that gear. It may have water in it. Have you ever thought about upgrading to Carbon Fibre and lapped stainless washers? That'll push the drag up towards the 20kg mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvillanova Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 pm sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieR Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 What hooks have you got on the knife jigs ?That might be causing issues too .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bracey Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Your drag should be set to 2/3 the breaking strain of the line, but I'd be checking the condition of the drag if you're struggling with little kings on that gear. It may have water in it. Have you ever thought about upgrading to Carbon Fibre and lapped stainless washers? That'll push the drag up towards the 20kg mark Using 50lb braid 80lb leader I could set the drag to max and shouldn't need to worry about breakages. My understanding is that these sort of line ratings are more used for abrasion resistance than needing to set really high drags. When I said they were a handful I guess I was referring to the fact that they weren't taking drag but still pulled hard and this is when I have had the hooks pull. Less drag would allow a 'softer' fight but run the risk of them making it to the bottom and if something bigger does come along I guess you would need to adjust the drag mid fight which I've always heard was a no no. Is pulling hooks just bad luck and I should crank the drag up?? Edited March 5, 2014 by Bartdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bracey Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 What hooks have you got on the knife jigs ? That might be causing issues too .. They are just a standard J hook that comes with the jig. Jigs are from a local distributer that a lot of guys use so I'm sure that's not the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dfishin Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Alot of people will tell you to run crazy drag settings and say lock it up and all. I have found that the harder you go on them the harder they go on you.I run a fairly light drag compared to most because of this reason. I have found they will run and they will stop and change direction and once they start coming up just keep a gradual easy preasure on them and they will come with you for a bit, run a bit and tire out. Fish that size i reckon that yeh you probably are ripping there face off with high drag settings. If there not pulling any string back it off mate and have some fun and give em a chance. What have ya got to lose if your pulling hooks anyway. Just my opinion. Dave Edited March 5, 2014 by Dfishin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossfire63 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Using 50lb braid 80lb leader I could set the drag to max and shouldn't need to worry about breakages. My understanding is that these sort of line ratings are more used for abrasion resistance than needing to set really high drags. When I said they were a handful I guess I was referring to the fact that they weren't taking drag but still pulled hard and this is when I have had the hooks pull. Less drag would allow a 'softer' fight but run the risk of them making it to the bottom and if something bigger does come along I guess you would need to adjust the drag mid fight which I've always heard was a no no. Is pulling hooks just bad luck and I should crank the drag up?? The breaking strain is stated as the rating at which the line will break on a straight pull and has very little to do with abrasion resistance. Most good quality braid will break above its stated rating, cheaper ones often break below their stated breaking strain. Heavier line and leader is naturally more abrasion resistant than lighter merely because of the fact that it is thicker. I wouldn't be fishing as heavy as you are for kings. You'll get more hits if you go lighter. I only use 30lb to a 60lb leader. Pulled hooks can be a problem. I'd be changing the hooks that come on most commercially available jigs to better quality. Theres only one good hook and thats a sharp one. Getting busted off is part of the game. A mate and I lost 24 jigs in a day but landed 20 over 30lb in the day (Lord Howe Island) You shouldn't need to adjust the drag. if you need morre drag then just palm the spool while its taking line Edited March 5, 2014 by Crossfire63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasksta Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Dfishin is right the hardwr you go the harder they fight espexially on jigs i find. I have a spheros 18000 with 80lb and i know its wrong but i just adjust it mid fight. Initially setting is so its 'very hard' to oull off with one hand. Hardly precise but ive had no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bracey Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Alot of people will tell you to run crazy drag settings and say lock it up and all. I have found that the harder you go on them the harder they go on you.I run a fairly light drag compared to most because of this reason. I have found they will run and they will stop and change direction and once they start coming up just keep a gradual easy preasure on them and they will come with you for a bit, run a bit and tire out. Fish that size i reckon that yeh you probably are ripping there face off with high drag settings. If there not pulling any string back it off mate and have some fun and give em a chance. What have ya got to lose if your pulling hooks anyway. Just my opinion. Dave Thanks Dave. That all sounds like good advice. Cheers, Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flickn Mad Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Another issue to think about is the fact that you have almost no stretch in a set up like that. you may want to think about a longer leader. Is FC leader very stretchy, I mainly use black majic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Ray Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I love topics like this!!!! I love kingfish..... Set the drag too tight and risk pinging the line... Too loose and they will reef you quicker than the missus will say " ya gotta mow the lawn before ya go fishing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidboy Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 15kg cause if it's a rat and you loose it so what, if it's a hoodlum your in set match for some pain lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adventureman Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 test your knots on some scales. i use the same 50lb braid and 80lb mono and my knots fail at the Bimini on average 18kg, i fish a lever drag so its easy to set my drag to the max. Full sunset on my reel is set at 18kg, i have never pushed it all the way but i've been close and it almost pulled me out of the boat!! Once you have your average breaking point its time to set the drag. with your rod in the holder and the leader past the rod tip yank on those scales fiercely as the fish will pull violently too. 7kg of drag will skull drag 70cm fish in my opinion so unless your guessing on your 7kg of drag think about getting it serviced. Carbotex wet system is the way to go. On hooks pulling make sure your tying to the ring on the assist hook not the jig, it makes a big difference. i normally crimp an assist hook onto my leader and then put the jig on with a split ring when its time to drop (crimps improve the breaking strain IMO my uni knots average 60% while crimps 80%). join team "man drag" and go hard or go home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bracey Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 test your knots on some scales. i use the same 50lb braid and 80lb mono and my knots fail at the Bimini on average 18kg, i fish a lever drag so its easy to set my drag to the max. Full sunset on my reel is set at 18kg, i have never pushed it all the way but i've been close and it almost pulled me out of the boat!! Once you have your average breaking point its time to set the drag. with your rod in the holder and the leader past the rod tip yank on those scales fiercely as the fish will pull violently too. 7kg of drag will skull drag 70cm fish in my opinion so unless your guessing on your 7kg of drag think about getting it serviced. Carbotex wet system is the way to go. On hooks pulling make sure your tying to the ring on the assist hook not the jig, it makes a big difference. i normally crimp an assist hook onto my leader and then put the jig on with a split ring when its time to drop (crimps improve the breaking strain IMO my uni knots average 60% while crimps 80%). join team "man drag" and go hard or go home! Thanks for the reply. I am very like you when it comes knots, quite fastidious by the sound of it (read anal in my own case). The 7kg was an estimate (although I have used scales in the past) and yes we were basically skull dragging them as they weren't taking any line. I'm not sure what you mean about getting the reel serviced though as I never said that I had it selected at full sunset, it could still go toward 15kg. I normally still tie a uni knot in 80lb which is the heaviest I have ever fished and I have tested my line strength and I agree it goes at around 60 to 70% of the rating. I use a 50 turn bimini for the doubles and that comes out at close to 100% breaking at the top of the bimini. So on this setup I'm saying it will let go around 50lb which is 23kg. We do tie our leader to the solid ring that is connected to the assist hook so it sounds like I got that part right. Pulled hooks happen sometimes I guess. Going tomorrow and I have used a crimp for the first time. As a matter of interest, when they fail at around the 80% mark, where is the actual failure occurring? Cheers, Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bracey Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 I love topics like this!!!! I love kingfish..... Set the drag too tight and risk pinging the line... Too loose and they will reef you quicker than the missus will say " ya gotta mow the lawn before ya go fishing" A topic that seems to split people down the middle. Half suggested I was fishing too heavy in line class and drag and the other half said to beef up the gear and man up. Classic Cheers, Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmaniac Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I think if you are serious about targeting large kings you need to fish heavy. If you are running around 8kg of drag which I would say is suitable for a 50lb outfit, anything less than 70cm won't pull a wrap off the reel as adventureman said. I hear a lot of people talking about 15kg+ of drag. This is serious pressure and will stop a 1m cold in its tracks. I would argue that (despite the ratings stated on a reel box) this sort of pressure applied on a regular basis will destroy anything other than the best quality reels. Kings will generally fire up when more pressure is applied, but they will still run through reef when you are on light gear. The only difference being the fight will be shorter on heavy tackle so that is less time the fish has to run over some nasty country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adventureman Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 my Bimini always breaks at the top of the twists leaving what appears to be an intact Bimini and a connection knot with leader connected to the scales. good luck and turn up that drag! the hoodlum is in the post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Iv been following this post, and as I thought there would be varying responses according to different expiriences. I belive there's no difinitive answer because every fish is different, but from my expirience iv lost nearly all fish with heavy and landed most with a firm drag, leaning a little to the heavier side. Again, just my personal expirience. Harry If it's to good to be true, it usually is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolongeramember Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Was just after some advise on drag settings. Setup is Spheros 10000FB rated to 15kg drag and 50lb braid to 80lb FC leader and 100g knife jigs. Have been getting a few at the inshore reefs, water depth around 12 to 20m. Most fish around the 70cm mark and even these felt a handful with the drag set around 7kg. I have had the hooks pull a couple of times and I thought this was due to the drag being set too high. I assumed I shouldn't have the drag too low though as I'm always hopeful of hooking a hoodlum (still waiting) and was also worried about getting reefed in shallow water. What drag do you guys recommend in this situation. Cheers, Bart You can use a little less initial drag if your only expecting average fish. You can always add more drag with your hand on the spool during a fight if you need. Actually, this is a good method to use and is the way I do it as you can adjust your drag in an instant during a fight which will help with your pulled hooks. Always have a mental picture in your head as to where in the water column a hooked fish is during the fight. If you know its very near the bottom then its hand on the spool and don't give it an inch. If you have pumped it up a couple, then let it take some if it wants to, remembering that the bottom is near and getting your hand back on that spool again. If the fish is near the top, even a large size, and your in 30m of water I'll unscrew the drag as a 'safety' and if he wants to pull then fine. If I feel a hooked fish is another average size, I'll back the drag off soon as possible. There is no need to pull them all the way to the boat without letting them have their way on their biggest lunges. I've never heard to not alter your drag during a fight but I do it all the time with almost every fish I hook and I reckon its a part of landing a fish with the most success. Not just kings either, but anything. Another option is to slow down your jigging method. That may help not pulling hooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galini09 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 mate i fish very similar gear to you, 50lb braid/ 80-100lb Leader on a stradic 8000 which goes to 12 kilos of drag and when fishing for kings its locked up tight. I've landed kings up to 8 or 9 kilos no problems but i'll tell you now when a big king hits hard, they rip line out at 12 kilos like a gazelle on the run! I'm upgrading for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgod Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Personally i think to tight and your at risk at pulling the hooks on the take either way however if you do get a hook up the main aim i believe is to turn his head ( very much easier said then done ) Goodluck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinfisher 4.9 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Don't we all love kingies! For what it's worth, I regularly catch kings to 8kg in less than 3 m of water over a dreadful bottom. Whilst not the same as jigging, I have found the only way to extract that fish is gently. Not fighting but simply "leading" the fish to the boat. Once close to the boat in deeper water they go crazy and the fight begins but you can lead them with gentle pressure without firing them up. My largest King of 17kgs was caught off High Rock at Avoca, the bait was taken around 10 m from the rocks - it could have been over in about 10 seconds but using the light pressure technique it took about 20 minutes and at no stage did it try to reef me. A fluke perhaps, but I still feel that the light pressure does work, the harder you pull, the harder they do.....and often they will win that contest. I generally fish with a Stella 20000 but only ever tighten that drag when they are near the boat Edited March 27, 2014 by Twinfisher 4.9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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