Benzeenees Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 My boat is about 8 years old and I've just installed my 5th Rule live bait pump. Three of the old ones still run, but they don't pump. One has a lot of wear near where the impeller sits in the body of the pump. The others look perfect. If I turn them off, then on, they pump for a few minutes before ceasing to pump. You can then hear the motor running, but there's no water coming thru. All behaved the same way at the end, so I've just assumed they have a limited life. I run them pretty much constantly as I nearly always have live bait on board. My outboard does over 100 hrs per year, so the pumps are probably doing at least twice that. Is it normal to have to replace the pump regularly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolongeramember Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Hi mate. It sounds like the impeller may be wearing down for some reason if they still run but don't pump. Do you pump any unusual water with abrasives like sand or something? Have you checked the impellers are still tight on the shaft and not slipping? That could also be happening. If they are failing for no obvious reason they have a warranty of 3 or 5 years. One of them, can't remember which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Mine has done around 300 hours over the past 10 years & still going strong. A friend of mine had a problem some years back with several pumps failing in quick sucession. He contacted Rule , for what i recall they were very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locodave Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Strange, Rule are pretty good. If you are not fussed with creating new holes, maybe try a johnson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Spanner Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Is the pickup permanently under the water surface? If I drive and forget mine is on is sucks air bubble and it continues to suck air until I turn it off and on again and sometimes have to reprise it by splashing water down the line for the outlet into the tank end. You might be sucking air somewhere in your intake line, you may have a small leak or may be sucking air at the start of the intake if the boat rocks and the intake comes out of the water for a second this could possibly be burning the pumps out or maybe they are ok but when An air leak gets I to the line it won't suck water. I also once sucked up a tiny bit of braid that wrapped up and killed a new pump and another time a piece of balloon did the same thing. Especially on elbow intakes facing down for some reason. Probably just coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzeenees Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Hi mate. It sounds like the impeller may be wearing down for some reason if they still run but don't pump. Do you pump any unusual water with abrasives like sand or something? Have you checked the impellers are still tight on the shaft and not slipping? That could also be happening. If they are failing for no obvious reason they have a warranty of 3 or 5 years. One of them, can't remember which. I don't pump anything unusual - I'm usually out in 30-50m of water. I do have a 90 degree bend on the end of the intake. Could that be causing the problem as the well certainly fills up even when the pump isn't on. I'll check the impellers on the old ones - still have them all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welster Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Is the pickup permanently under the water surface? If I drive and forget mine is on is sucks air bubble and it continues to suck air until I turn it off and on again and sometimes have to reprise it by splashing water down the line for the outlet into the tank end. You might be sucking air somewhere in your intake line, you may have a small leak or may be sucking air at the start of the intake if the boat rocks and the intake comes out of the water for a second this could possibly be burning the pumps out or maybe they are ok but when An air leak gets I to the line it won't suck water. I also once sucked up a tiny bit of braid that wrapped up and killed a new pump and another time a piece of balloon did the same thing. Especially on elbow intakes facing down for some reason. Probably just coincidence. I agree. My old boat had a rule pump mounted on the back of it with a pickup below. It was at least 6 or 7 years old and I had no hassle at all.My new boat has the pump built in. I haven't laid eyes on it yet. It has a strainer mounted on the transom and must be just inside. It regularly stops pumping but I can hear it still spinning. Switch it off and on and it starts working again. So it seems to have an airlock of some kind that sorts itself once it's turned off. You now have me thinking of the solution. As it is quite frustrating when I think the pump is going and it's not. Maybe a need a different pick up that works from the bung plug type setup. I might try and unscrew the floor to see how it's set up. The last thing I want to do is force water in it can't handle. The other option maybe an inline timer will solve it without me thinking about it. Does anybody have thoughts on this? Benzeenees I definitely think it's a pickup problem. Maybe post some pictures of the back of the boat and the setup. If you haven't tossed the old pumps out you may have a few perfectly good pumps! Edited June 19, 2015 by welst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzeenees Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'll take the 90 degree bend off. But the pumps do work very well for about 1 - 2 years, so I don't think I have a leak or a problem with the pickup coming out of the water. Towards the end, each pump motor keeps running and like Welst, if I turn it off, then on, it works for a while. But as I'm pretty deaf, I end up with a tank of dead "livies" (or are they deadies?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) I have had the same Rule 360gph on my live tank for 9yrs ... no issues with the pump - in fact I am waiting for it to fail so I can fit a bigger one - I could use the extra water flow as I have spliced into the live bait hose to run a tap on the cutting board and also a hose to fill the kill tank etc. I have the pump mounted on the stern on a s/s bracket that has a water pickup pipe with a small bend in it facing forward (bought from WWths). When I was fitting it, I do recall being advised if I was mounting a bilge pump on top to position the bracket so as NOT to have the pipe fully immersed facing forward when the hull was planing -- as I would be forcing water at quite some pressure through the pump - leading to early pump failure. I mounted mine so just part of the outer rim of the pipe protrudes from under the hull stern - my set up works fine at all speeds. Maybe check your setup - the position of your pickup at high speed or over time may be blowing the impeller off the spindle by forcing the water through the pump - which would explain why you can hear the pump running but get no water flow. You may not need to reposition your bracket or pickup. I have seen some custom ally boats where the pickup was a vertical aluminum pipe cut at an angle (no bend) with just the open face of the cut facing forward and they pick up water fine. So if your pick up is like mine with a bend facing forward, maybe just saw off the bend on the pipe. Edited June 19, 2015 by zmk1962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This is the correct position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzeenees Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 My pump sits inside the boat with the inlet thru the back of the transom. The inlet is well under the water even when on the plane. Even though my pumps are only lasting a year or so, they're probably running for 300 - 600 hours before playing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolongeramember Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Another possible cause could be if you are pumping under considerable pressure like if you have a spray bar squirting out of very small holes for example. Doing this for extended periods could be weakening and damaging the pump motor somehow. I don't think these pumps are designed to work under pressure. Just free flow out of a pipe basically. It would explain why when you turn it off and back on again, the pump will start ok but then lose some grunt because it has been damaged and weakened. I don't think the pick up pipe forcing water in can damage anything. Those pipes are generally very small diameter to cause any excess flow problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VViCKiD Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I have a rule as well in exactly the same setup as the pic geoff posted up. My pick up does nothing at all as there are holes at the bottom of the pump (ie. The blue base bit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The pick up is only there when on the plane & the blue base is out of the water . I find that when on the plane it's not necessary to have the pump turned on as there is sufficent pressure from the water passing under the boat to keep a good flow into the tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV Sunray Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I have a rule as well in exactly the same setup as the pic geoff posted up. My pick up does nothing at all as there are holes at the bottom of the pump (ie. The blue base bit) Did you drill a hole in the middle of the base to accommodate the pickup scoop? Pickup is designed to work when the pump is out of the water (on the plane). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VViCKiD Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Yeh I did drill a hole. There r "grills" on the filter and I suspect that's where the water pressure is lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric001 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Has anyone rigged a bilge float switch so that it switches off the pump when on the plane. Just a thought as it might save the pump bearing from overheating when out of water. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welster Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 During the week I changed my wire strainer on the back of the boat for a fitting with a 90 degree bend cut at the angle just lower than the bottom of the transom. My bait pump ( inside the transom) worked all day with no need to turn it off and on at all. I'm thinking my next mod is to change the hose to pressure hose and install a flow control fitting. I also want to get rid of the spray nozzle and plumb the water inlet down to the bottom of the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefish Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Keep in mind it could siphon the tank empty when you turn off the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welster Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Keep in mind it could siphon the tank empty when you turn off the pump. Thanks Steve, I will put the small pin hole at the top. My plan was to use a new skin fitting and in an electrical junction box so the conduit could run neatly down the inside of the tank. I realised to late that I need to remove the tank to change the fitting. Edited July 6, 2015 by welst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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