frankS Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I believe a longer drag link will increase the amount of lock, especially one that you can adjust to optimal length to suit. We will just have to wait to see the end result. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hateanchors said: Looking at the second video, I would not be satisfied with that amount of lock to lock that you now have. Thats why I suggested testing the 2nd hole closer to the motor.. this would give increased lock movement traded off with increased effort as there is less leverage on the pivot. Here's another diagram .... picture = 1000 words With bracket inward, and drag link at points A and B we had good rotation of motor but the set up was binding up and there was not enough leverage requiring high effort to turn. With bracket outward, and drag link at point C, we have lost rotation but we require significantly lower effort. It seems the optimum position for the drag link connection will be somewhere around point D. The carry handle seems redundant for a fixed motor anyway so consider drilling through it. For strength, maybe consider inverting the bracket to go across the carry handle and then drill through the carry handle. Cheers Zoran Edited March 28, 2019 by zmk1962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP3 Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 Frank, Zoran, you're both stars! One thing is bothering me though. If the drag link was made long enough to push the motor to full port lock with the cable fully retracted, wouldn't this mean that there would be less travel towards starboard lock, due to the longer drag link keeping the motor further away from starboard, as the steering cable has fixed length/travel? If what I have in my mind's eye is correct, I'd need more length in the steering cable, to account for the extra distance for the motor bracket to move in either direction. (Fully willing to consider that I've got all this totally wrong!) The great thing to know though, is that I have 4 options to play with (2 holes in the bracket, with the bracket flipping in 2 directions) to try and find the right balance of lock-to-lock vs. steering effort! Cheers, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, AP3 said: One thing is bothering me though. If the drag link was made long enough to push the motor to full port lock with the cable fully retracted, wouldn't this mean that there would be less travel towards starboard lock, due to the longer drag link keeping the motor further away from starboard, as the steering cable has fixed length/travel? Andy, Please look back at my post with this below diagram and the explanation in that post. Yes the drag link has fixed length/travel. The way I see it you should be measuring the drag link length when the cable is 1/2 way out and the motor centred (to run straight). That will give you equidistant movement either way. But first. Do a test at which drag link position on the bracket do you have acceptable steering effort vs motor rotation. Cheers Zoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP3 Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 Hi Zoran, still trying to get my head around it, but I think I've disproven myself. I made a quick sketch to a made up scale, and it seems that the drag link being longer wouldn't result in different origin points on the steering cable, as they intersect at the same points. Does this look right to you? Your engineering mind is far better than mine! Would the current setup actually give me unbalanced steering travel port to starboard? Cheers, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolongeramember Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 11 hours ago, frankS said: I believe a longer drag link will increase the amount of lock, especially one that you can adjust to optimal length to suit. We will just have to wait to see the end result. Frank Ok I’ll leave you guys oto solve this problem 😣 I’m off this one. I still think he has an issue somewhere else and this bracket changing is creating other issues and covering up the original problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP3 Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, Hateanchors said: Ok I’ll leave you guys oto solve this problem 😣 I’m off this one. I still think he has an issue somewhere else and this bracket changing is creating other issues and covering up the original problem. I fear you're right. I checked the angle at port and starboard, and I have a lot more starboard lock that I do port lock. Attached are a couple of photos showing the distance between the steering bracket and steering cable, with the drag link disconnected, and the motor and cable turned lock to lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Andy, Apologies, I'm having trouble following your diagram. The cable moves in a line, and protrudes out a max lock to lock length (L), so half way should be centre (L/2)... this will require equal number of turn of wheel to go left or right. The bracket moves in an arc, pulled a linear distance of L/2 to left or pushed L/2 distance to right. My diagram below shows a move from centre to max lock on left. In the diagram the drag link is connected to hole C on the bracket when the cable is at centre position. That way you will get equal rotation to right or left. If you connect to holes A, B or D you will need a different length (shorter) drag link (again measured of the centre position of the cable). I think Frank was saying if you had an adjustable length drag link you could try the other bracket holes and pick the optimum one that gives you best rotation and least effort. @Hateanchors I appreciate fully what you are saying. But in my opinion all steering systems are a compromise, and in my experience you are rarely gated by the motor rotation lock to lock... and more often by the steering system. I had to go to a bullhorn hydraulic because a side mount hydraulic ram was not rated for my outboard HP. The largest bullhorn had a total travel of 860mm which was way below my motors lock to lock rotation capability. If I wanted the ease of hydraulic steering I had to compromise on my slow speed turning circle. In Andy's case, the original position of the bracket and drag link connection seemed to be binding - the angles were just too tight - that may be because of where the cable is anchored to the hull. But the quickest fix seemed to be to move the bracket and get more leverage - if you can live with the reduced rotation. Cheers Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, AP3 said: I have a lot more starboard lock that I do port lock. Yup.. That drag link is incorrect length as per my explanation above. Disconnect the link. Position the motor to be dead centre. Turn the wheel until the cable is half out (half of the max travel), and measure the distance from the cable connection to the bracket connection - thats the drag link length you need to get equidistant turn rotation. Cheers Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP3 Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, zmk1962 said: Yup.. That drag link is incorrect length as per my explanation above. Disconnect the link. Position the motor to be dead centre. Turn the wheel until the cable is half out (half of the max travel), and measure the distance from the cable connection to the bracket connection - thats the drag link length you need to get equidistant turn rotation. Cheers Z Cheers Zoran, I think I understand now. With a correctly measured drag link, I would have equidistant travel port to starboard, but still a reduced lock. Have I got it right? Cheers, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 6 hours ago, AP3 said: Cheers Zoran, I think I understand now. With a correctly measured drag link, I would have equidistant travel port to starboard, but still a reduced lock. Have I got it right? Yes. That's correct Andy. You will get a bit more motor lock to lock rotation if you attach to hole D, a bit more if to B and again a bit more if to A (each will need a different length drag link to give you equidistant rotation) but your steering will also require more effort as you get closer to A. Cheers Zoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankS Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 As I said in a previous post, It is my opinion that pretty well no boat with push pull morse/teleflex steering has full motor lock, the amount of thread which goes into the helm just isn't made long enough ( don't know why ) . It is a bit of a compromise but for my money I would rather sacrifice a little bit of lock for smoother/easier steering. With the drag link left in it's original position the helm will strip its thread ( eventually ) and Andy will end up with a lot of slack back in his steering, this is of coarse after years of putting up with very stiff steering. I am offering Andy a possible solution ( with compromise ) and it's up to him if he wants to go ahead with my offer. IF it fails and doesn't fix Andy's problem to his satisfaction, well then at least we have tried. Frank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP3 Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 10 hours ago, frankS said: As I said in a previous post, It is my opinion that pretty well no boat with push pull morse/teleflex steering has full motor lock, the amount of thread which goes into the helm just isn't made long enough ( don't know why ) . It is a bit of a compromise but for my money I would rather sacrifice a little bit of lock for smoother/easier steering. With the drag link left in it's original position the helm will strip its thread ( eventually ) and Andy will end up with a lot of slack back in his steering, this is of coarse after years of putting up with very stiff steering. I am offering Andy a possible solution ( with compromise ) and it's up to him if he wants to go ahead with my offer. IF it fails and doesn't fix Andy's problem to his satisfaction, well then at least we have tried. Frank Hi Frank, I would love to take up your kind offer. Do the photos I've provided give you enough information on the correct length etc? I'm in no rush, as I have options available in the meanwhile, so happy to wait for your mate to come over to the UK. Cheers! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankS Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Andy I have sent you a PM (personal message ) regarding further contact details. Cheers Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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