FG dramas

[Berrero]

Hey Raiders,

 

Took the time & effort to learn the notorious FG knot about a year or so ago. They became really easy once I got the hang of it and it has been my go-to braid to leader knot since.

 

One thing I have noticed however - and something that has given me dramas the whole time I've used it now that I think about it - is the FC tag end either poking through the bank of half hitches or the half hitches coming loose, sliding a bit down the braided line allowing the FC tag to work its way out. My knots usually hold well for a little while at least but notice after the 3rd or 4th session that the tag has popped out or half hitches have started to come undone. I try my hardest to tighten the half hitches as hard as I can and yet it still seems to happen.

It's usually a quick fix - trim the FC tag as short as possible and attempt to tighten the half hitches again. Most of the time this works and seems to hold OK but it has just always boggled me how it has continually happened since I began using it.

The 'FG' part of the knot seems to always hold fine, never had any issues bearing down on it & getting it to bite in, it's just the damn FC tag end that always gives me dramas..

 

I tried using the Rizzuto finish and seems to give me the same problems.

 

The only idea I have so far is that I usually tie a longer leader than normal (I change lures OFTEN and don't want to use any clips) - I'm thinking maybe as the knot goes through the bail arm roller it is bending it roughly 90 degrees and thinking maybe that's where the tag end is working its way out. It's not like I'm running with 3-4 rod lengths, probably between 1 & 1.5 rod lengths. Knot is usually either just above the bail arm when casting or just wound on to the top of the spool.

 

I have tried other knots (double uni, slim beauty, etc) but the two light rods I use have absolutely TINY guide holes and can cause dramas with knots getting stuck while casting & wind knots because of it.. Lost plenty of lures to knot catching / wind knots while casting and lure snapping off & sent flying into yonder.

 

Hoping there is something small I'm missing or a tip one of you have that could be saving me a lot of hassle!! Or is this just something that happens with the FG and something I should get used to?

Thanks & tight lines

Edited December 30, 2020 by Berrero

[kingie chaser]

Are you putting enough tension on the knot before closing it off?

I think everyone has their own way of finishing their FG's, the way that I have come to is I close mine off with a series of 3 or 4 sets of half hitches altenating in directions & the use the so called Rizzuto or what I just call a reversed uni locking it all off, never had it come undone.

 

On the leader tag end I think your always going to have a little exposed, I have tried a few other ways of trying to cover it over with other finishing knots but think the way I settled with is more important just to secure the knot over covering the tag of the leader.

 

After you cut your tag end you could try doing another reverse uni or regular uni on top of the other??

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by kingie chaser

[zmk1962]

I use the FG extensively, with leaders 2-3x rod length. I always try to have a few wraps of leader on the spool given I mostly fish from my boat and leader is more abrasive resistant than braid - so playing fish close to the boat I have leader from reel to terminal gear.   

When finishing the FG knot, I cut the leader (mono or FC) at a long sloping angle and then make sure the half hitches tie over this sloping cut so that you end up with a smooth transition to the braid and no leader poking out.  Also, I alternate 3 half hitches left, 3 right, 3 left etc until all the leader is well covered and finish off with something like a 4 turn blood knot that locks the braid down.

I have not had the FG come apart at the braid ever ... and honestly, the FG/leader knot gets used every outing (some have gone for months and easily 10+ trips) .... rightly or wrongly  I only retie the FGs and leaders when something breaks - the braid or the leader is too short.  I'll probably be shouted down for that... but it works for me. 

I've had raiders on board that can attest I've had leaders snap, swivels break, and even the braid line break ... but I've not had a failure at the FG knot so far.

Cheers Zoran

[Berrero]

16 minutes ago, zmk1962 said:

I use the FG extensively, with leaders 2-3x rod length. I always try to have a few wraps of leader on the spool given I mostly fish from my boat and leader is more abrasive resistant than braid - so playing fish close to the boat I have leader from reel to terminal gear.   

When finishing the FG knot, I cut the leader (mono or FC) at a long sloping angle and then make sure the half hitches tie over this sloping cut so that you end up with a smooth transition to the braid and no leader poking out.  Also, I alternate 3 half hitches left, 3 right, 3 left etc until all the leader is well covered and finish off with something like a 4 turn blood knot that locks the braid down.

I have not had the FG come apart at the braid ever ... and honestly, the FG/leader knot gets used every outing (some have gone for months and easily 10+ trips) .... rightly or wrongly  I only retie the FGs and leaders when something breaks - the braid or the leader is too short.  I'll probably be shouted down for that... but it works for me. 

I've had raiders on board that can attest I've had leaders snap, swivels break, and even the braid line break ... but I've not had a failure at the FG knot so far.

Cheers Zoran

I usually alternate something like 8 or 10 half hitches - started with the 4 or so but have been upping the count to try and make it 'tighter'. Cut tag end flush with braid and most of the time I'll throw a couple more alternating half hitches to cover the tag end. Where the leader usually pokes out is a few half hitches up the line, resulting in a 2-3mm tag end sticking out. Furthermore I think I've only ever had two or three FG knots actually come undone. It's regular habit for me to check the knot periodically during a session now, usually catch it in the act before it actually gives way.

18 minutes ago, kingie chaser said:

Are you putting enough tension on the knot before closing it off?

I think everyone has their own way of finishing their FG's, the way that I have come to is I close mine off with a series of 3 or 4 sets of half hitches altenating in directions & the use the so called Rizzuto or what I just call a reversed uni locking it all off, never had it come undone.

 

On the leader tag end I think your always going to have a little exposed, I have tried a few other ways of trying to cover it over with other finishing knots but think the way I settled with is more important just to secure the knot over covering the tag of the leader.

 

After you cut your tag end you could try doing another reverse uni or regular uni on top of the other??

 

Yep that's what I've been doing, have even put so much tension on the half hitches some times where it would snap the braid I was using. The half hitches are definitely tight as hell when I finish the knot, as well as the FG part being extremely tight.. leading me to believe it is some other factor such as the bail arm

Edited December 30, 2020 by Berrero

[kingie chaser]

4 minutes ago, Berrero said:

I usually alternate something like 8 or 10 half hitches - started with the 4 or so but have been upping the count to try and make it 'tighter'. Cut tag end flush with braid and most of the time I'll throw a couple more alternating half hitches to cover the tag end. Where the leader usually pokes out is a few half hitches up the line, resulting in a 2-3mm tag end sticking out. Furthermore I think I've only ever had two or three FG knots actually come undone. It's regular habit for me to check the knot periodically during a session now, usually catch it in the act before it actually gives way.

Yep that's what I've been doing, have even put so much tension on the half hitches some times where it would snap the braid I was using. The half hitches are definitely tight as hell when I finish the knot, as well as the FG part being extremely tight.. leading me to believe it is some other factor such as the bail arm

Im like Zoran, never had a knot failure or one come lose.

Either the main line breaks or the leader, never the knot.

 

What type braid are you using??

[Berrero]

15 minutes ago, kingie chaser said:

Im like Zoran, never had a knot failure or one come lose.

Either the main line breaks or the leader, never the knot.

 

What type braid are you using??

I think this last lot is Daiwa tournament evo8, usually spend $80+ per spool on braid, it's something I've never skimped on.

On the comment of it breaking when tying knots - it was 6 or 8lb braid that it would happen on, nothing big like 20lb+, I pull all of my knots very tight but in these cases I was tightening them so much trying to stop them coming undone that the actual line was breaking.

 

I don't think I've ever lost a fish to the FG coming undone either. The knot doesn't actually fail as a whole, the half hitches just start coming undone, the knot integrity doesn't seem to be affected when this happens as the usual trim & tighten I do does the trick. Just wondering if there was something I could do to avoid having to do this all together

Edited December 30, 2020 by Berrero

[Green Hornet]

I've never had a problem with a 3 or 4 turn rizzuto and personally, I don't mind leaving a tag on the braid or about 4 or 5mm as the braid is so soft I don't find it impedes the cast at all in light gear.

I have an ultra light baitcast (BFS,) Majorcraft Volkey rod which has the tiniest micro guides you'll ever see, about 2mm at the tip, and the braid tag sails through them just fine.

[zmk1962]

1 hour ago, Green Hornet said:

I don't mind leaving a tag on the braid or about 4 or 5mm as the braid is so soft I don't find it impedes the cast

+1 for that @Green Hornet.  The braid tail actually softens over time ... no impact to having a little braid tail.  It's the leader tail that I try hardest to eliminate.

Cheers Zoran

[big Neil]

I use the FG knot as my go to. When you finish the knot and you have about 6mm tag of braid, put a TINY dab of superglue on it and hold the tab against your braid for a few seconds. Naturally you need to ensure that you have enough half hitches to adequately cover the stub end of the fluro. Let me know what you think. Cheers bn

[Green Hornet]

1 hour ago, zmk1962 said:

+1 for that @Green Hornet.  The braid tail actually softens over time ... no impact to having a little braid tail.  It's the leader tail that I try hardest to eliminate.

Cheers Zoran

Exactly. I tie my FG tight so there's no initial slip and I can trim the leader tag back to near zero. I don't have a problem with the lump as its facing the right way when lure casting. I can live with a slight "clunk" through the guides when retrieving.

 

[kingie chaser]

Knot that it has anything to do with finishing of the knot itself I am still loving my Daiichi Seiko 2.0 FG tool.

 

I have done the knot by hand many different ways but I find this tool helps me in the closeness of the winds & also when finishing off the knot.

 

[PaddyT]

use a rizzuto finish in it after the hitches-the other important thing to do is sinch it up before fishing -or dont waste fishing time by tying it and use a albright.

[James Clain]

I designed my own variation of the FG knot which solved all my problems similar to your problems. My variation has won against all the other variations of the FG knot you can find on the internet. 

The method goes as follows:

1, wrap braid around legs or use rod holder and teeth and apply maximum pressure to the braid (while still being able to maintain a straight wrap in the leader)

2, Complete approx 30 alternating wraps (more on lighter lines) under as much tension as possible

3, tie 2 alternating half hitches on top of the leader tag end and sinch hard

4, tie 2 alternating half hitches on top of leader tag end and braid mainline together, sinch hard

5, use gloves or pulling dowel to apply as much tension on the main leader and braid mainline keeping in mind the breaking strength of your lines. 

6, cut leader tag and burn a small mushroom onto the leader

7, use the braid tag and tie multiple alternating half hitches on the braid mainline. Do as many as necessary to create a barrier between the braid mainline and the burnt mushroom. (the purpose of these half hitches are to help seal the knot better, protect against abrasion from the burnt mushroom on the braid mainline and to anchor the braid tag end to protect from fray) 

8, cut the braid tag with about half a centimetre to spare and test the knot to check for inconsistencies during your method. 

This knot variation if done correctly will break after the braid mainline or after the hook knot. It's a Freaking Good knot  

Edit: I also use this knot on any breaking strain line 4lb - 400lb

 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by James Clain