hook size and weight for soft plastics

[DerekD]

Hi BKK,

This topic is a small part of what we will cover if and when you make it out with me.

I've replied to this topic a few times in the past based on my experiences and fishing style so please don't treat this as set in stone.

I would say yes on the 5/0 but the problem is that it depends on the manufacturer. For example, I use TT bullet head style jig heads. My go to is the TT Tournament type jig head (yellowish packet) but I'll also use the TT HeadlockZ. When using the headlockZ the 5/0 looks to be the same gape and size of the 3/0 in the Tournament series. Have a look at this post to see what I am talking about:

I'll generally hold the jig head alongside the plastic to see if it looks right. Where does the end of the hook sit relative to the shoulder of the lure. How does the gape look. Too big and it might put off the fish or not swim right. Too small and it reduces the chances of hooking up or it might bend when subjected to the force of a king.

Some further reading on this topic in general:

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by DerekD

[bkk]

20 hours ago, JamoDamo said:

I'm no expert on kings.. but these are what I have seen people using for kingies. I usually fish finesse for bream and flatties so can't really help you there but i'm sure both would work well the 10" plastics and the minnowz

yep hopefully they produce some good pelagics

[bkk]

11 hours ago, slothparade said:

Thats how i found out this is a good place. Actually found it during a school camp 

yes same, is it a good place tho i havent been there yet

where was ur school camp?

[bkk]

7 hours ago, DerekD said:

Hi BKK,

This topic is a small part of what we will cover if and when you make it out with me.

I've replied to this topic a few times in the past based on my experiences and fishing style so please don't treat this as set in stone.

I would say yes on the 5/0 but the problem is that it depends on the manufacturer. For example, I use TT bullet head style jig heads. My go to is the TT Tournament type jig head (yellowish packet) but I'll also use the TT HeadlockZ. When using the headlockZ the 5/0 looks to be the same gape and size of the 3/0 in the Tournament series. Have a look at this post to see what I am talking about:

I'll generally hold the jig head alongside the plastic to see if it looks right. Where does the end of the hook sit relative to the shoulder of the lure. How does the gape look. Too big and it might put off the fish or not swim right. Too small and it reduces the chances of hooking up or it might bend when subjected to the force of a king.

Some further reading on this topic in general:

 

hey derekd 

took me quite a while to read all of the forums u have sent but they have helped a lot. will my 5/0 hook be too big for my 3 and 4 inch zman diezel minnowz and only be good for my 5 inch? 

also ive been reading ur forums and it seems that sluggos and powerbaits work better than zman diezel minnowz? or is it just less recommended for kings

[kingie chaser]

One answer is be fluid & prepared to change your method & approach.

And again there is no one answer to your question but generalisations but you have to be prepared to change your set up accordingly.

At the end of the day they always say match the hatch.

If your getting the tails taken off your plastics without hooking up then the plastics are to long & possibly the hook size to large

 

[DerekD]

I think it will be too big but can you upload a photo of the hook alongside the plastic. 5/0 is not the same size across all brands as per the thread with the comparison photos I loaded. The front end of the plastic should sit just behind the jig head. Even better is if you rig it like you would when using.

I use the 3 and 4" minnows with my bream gear and 4lb braid.

For my 3 inch minnows (berkley power minnow) I use a TT jig head in size 1H (H is for heavy gauge). The weights I use are 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 oz. These are the ones:

For my 4" minnows I use the 1/0 hooks and generally the 1/4oz.

Look at the photo below. I was having a mini fishing competition with a mate. I needed a flathead to put me ahead so I wasn't worried about subtle and more concerned with covering ground. It is a 9gram ballhead jig with 1/0 hook. The hook comes out a bit too far back on the 3" lure for my liking but it still works quite well. It doesn't quite look right. It does still allow some tail movement though.

Edited April 27, 2021 by DerekD

[bkk]

13 minutes ago, DerekD said:

I think it will be too big but can you upload a photo of the hook alongside the plastic. 5/0 is not the same size across all brands as per the thread with the comparison photos I loaded. The front end of the plastic should sit just behind the jig head. Even better is if you rig it like you would when using.

I use the 3 and 4" minnows with my bream gear and 4lb braid.

For my 3 inch minnows (berkley power minnow) I use a TT jig head in size 1H (H is for heavy gauge). The weights I use are 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 oz. These are the ones:

For my 4" minnows I use the 1/0 hooks and generally the 1/4oz.

Look at the photo below. I was having a mini fishing competition with a mate. I needed a flathead to put me ahead so I wasn't worried about subtle and more concerned with covering ground. It is a 9gram ballhead jig with 1/0 hook. The hook comes out a bit too far back on the 3" lure for my liking but it still works quite well. It doesn't quite look right. It does still allow some tail movement though.

i will be able to upload to picture on saturday, but i think my hook was the same brand as yours with the yellow background 5/0 3/8. so will the bigger the hook mean less tail movement for the zman diezel minnowz which already doesnt have a lot of tail movement? and will it still catch kings

[JamoDamo]

51 minutes ago, kingie chaser said:

One answer is be fluid & prepared to change your method & approach.

And again there is no one answer to your question but generalisations but you have to be prepared to change your set up accordingly.

At the end of the day they always say match the hatch.

If your getting the tails taken off your plastics without hooking up then the plastics are to long & possibly the hook size to large

Spot on, if one presentation doesn't work change it up fish can be very picky sometimes!

[DerekD]

Hi BKK,

First thing is that it has to look right.

Second thing is it is way more important how you fish it. The kingfish often likes to chase. I've seen them follow a lure up and then as soon as you stop the retrieve they then turn away.

How do you use this to your advantage. A fast erratic retrieve gets their attention a pause then gives the king to have a look at it but before they can decide it darts off again. They have to make a split second decision to hit the lure or miss out. With the retrieve I've worked out for the minnows and slapstix we probably get 80% of the hits on the pause.

Other people on here have mentioned metals. One gentleman I've been mentoring for several months has been doing pretty well on the pelagics. His technique of preference was to cast out a 30gm silver halco twisty with hook changed to single. He let it hit the bottom and then wound it back as fast as he could. You cannot outwind the fish. Very often the faster you wind the more likely you are to hook up. Especially true for the bonito from my experience. He did pretty well over the summer. Just because we didn't see a lot of feeding on the surface it didn't mean they were not ther.e. The casting and retrieving on faith paid off during multiple sessions.

A lot of what you are asking won't hit home till you actually see it. At this stage for you it is theoretical. It took me a long time to work out what worked for me consistently. It was sometimes a lucky accident which lead to an Aha moment which improved my fishing and which I then refined as i helped other people.

I love that you are so passionate and keen but at this point I think it will be more beneficial to head out with someone or with a few people and see what they do. Filter through the information and look for the why.

Edited April 27, 2021 by DerekD

[slothparade]

On 4/27/2021 at 7:38 PM, bkk said:

yes same, is it a good place tho i havent been there yet

where was ur school camp?

All around the city. We stayed in the youth hostel and went to manly and Bondi and stuff like that 

[bkk]

1 hour ago, slothparade said:

All around the city. We stayed in the youth hostel and went to manly and Bondi and stuff like that 

ohh did u see people catch fish there or see bustups?

[bkk]

23 hours ago, JamoDamo said:

Spot on, if one presentation doesn't work change it up fish can be very picky sometimes!

yessir

[bkk]

23 hours ago, DerekD said:

Hi BKK,

First thing is that it has to look right.

Second thing is it is way more important how you fish it. The kingfish often likes to chase. I've seen them follow a lure up and then as soon as you stop the retrieve they then turn away.

How do you use this to your advantage. A fast erratic retrieve gets their attention a pause then gives the king to have a look at it but before they can decide it darts off again. They have to make a split second decision to hit the lure or miss out. With the retrieve I've worked out for the minnows and slapstix we probably get 80% of the hits on the pause.

Other people on here have mentioned metals. One gentleman I've been mentoring for several months has been doing pretty well on the pelagics. His technique of preference was to cast out a 30gm silver halco twisty with hook changed to single. He let it hit the bottom and then wound it back as fast as he could. You cannot outwind the fish. Very often the faster you wind the more likely you are to hook up. Especially true for the bonito from my experience. He did pretty well over the summer. Just because we didn't see a lot of feeding on the surface it didn't mean they were not ther.e. The casting and retrieving on faith paid off during multiple sessions.

A lot of what you are asking won't hit home till you actually see it. At this stage for you it is theoretical. It took me a long time to work out what worked for me consistently. It was sometimes a lucky accident which lead to an Aha moment which improved my fishing and which I then refined as i helped other people.

I love that you are so passionate and keen but at this point I think it will be more beneficial to head out with someone or with a few people and see what they do. Filter through the information and look for the why.

is the hook for my chrome slice (similar to halco twisty) that i got from kmart have hooks that are too weak? 

im slightly confused, is there a difference between a pause and stopping a retrieve shortly? at balmoral ive had many cases with bonitos with no bustups following my lure but as i reeled it towards myself and the action stopped, the fish went away as well, so what should i do in that situation?

 

[DerekD]

Hi BKK,

The reason for changing out the treble is that it does less damage to the fish and is easier to remove for catch and release. The tailor will often engulf all three of the trebles in its mouth (say two hooks in the top lip and one in the bottom) and between the teeth and the jumping around they are a real pain to remove. Like for like in size I feel the singles are slightly stronger too. I use Gamakatsu large eye hooks but there are plenty of other excellent options out there. I don't seem to notice a significant difference in hook up rate between singles and trebles.

I generally do not stop the retrieves when winding back a twisty (although I might change the pace to see what is working). The tailor's attack involves biting the tail off the prey which then makes it an easy meal. If it doesn't know which end the tail is it can get pretty expensive as it may bite off the line end.

The stop start and darting retrieve is what I use for plastics. If I start losing tails then tailor are about then I switch to the twisty.

Regards,

Derek

Edited April 28, 2021 by DerekD

[slothparade]

12 hours ago, bkk said:

ohh did u see people catch fish there or see bustups?

saw people getting squids. Also saw lots of people on the ferry wharfs around the time of the last ferries (10 pm or so) 

[bkk]

11 hours ago, DerekD said:

Hi BKK,

The reason for changing out the treble is that it does less damage to the fish and is easier to remove for catch and release. The tailor will often engulf all three of the trebles in its mouth (say two hooks in the top lip and one in the bottom) and between the teeth and the jumping around they are a real pain to remove. Like for like in size I feel the singles are slightly stronger too. I use Gamakatsu large eye hooks but there are plenty of other excellent options out there. I don't seem to notice a significant difference in hook up rate between singles and trebles.

I generally do not stop the retrieves when winding back a twisty (although I might change the pace to see what is working). The tailor's attack involves biting the tail off the prey which then makes it an easy meal. If it doesn't know which end the tail is it can get pretty expensive as it may bite off the line end.

The stop start and darting retrieve is what I use for plastics. If I start losing tails then tailor are about then I switch to the twisty.

Regards,

Derek

am i able to get the single hooks from a shop or maybe a shop?

i have heard tailor have dioxins, and also are pelagics caught from west of the harbour still fine to eat or just good for catch and release?

[bkk]

8 hours ago, slothparade said:

saw people getting squids. Also saw lots of people on the ferry wharfs around the time of the last ferries (10 pm or so) 

but this was on the west of the harbour bridge right?

are the pelagics able to be eaten, but not the squid or anything else?

[DerekD]

3 hours ago, bkk said:

but this was on the west of the harbour bridge right?

are the pelagics able to be eaten, but not the squid or anything else?

Hi BKK, the government advice is not to.

Here is MY take on things based more on what I have read and reasoned. While I have seen some of the data it was a long time ago and I am not a marine scientist and I don't eat fish.

In the past on the Parramatta river there were chemical plants (and especially in the Homebush area). I've heard even agent Orange as used in the Vietnam war was made up there (I have not verified this).

Being less concerned (or probably less aware) of the environment there were chemical which got into the rivers. The dioxins were the bad one as they settle into the bottom and take a long time to break down. These can get into the food chain but it is not the same for all species. Something like bream which can live up to 30 years could develop a build up in their system over the years. This can then work its way into the humans but you would have to eat a lot of contaminated fish over the years. There were a number of families that commercially fished the harbour for several generations and I believe that fish made up a large part of their diet. Read this:

https://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1692445.htm

This is conjecture but I believe when it comes to the community the governing bodies have to take an extremely conservative view when advising people as to the safety of various activities. This I think is why they advised no fish to be eaten from the West of the bridge. It also ensures no come backs when people ignore the advice.

Most of the pelagics spend a lot of time outside the harbour so I think they are a low risk.

It is a non issue for me as most of my fishing is done in Sydney Harbour, Middle Harbour or Pittwater.

Regards,

Derek.

PS. Any local fishing shop should have the large eye single hooks. These are my usual go to for twisties but I get heavy duty ones too for other lures.

Edited April 29, 2021 by DerekD

[slothparade]

14 hours ago, bkk said:

but this was on the west of the harbour bridge right?

are the pelagics able to be eaten, but not the squid or anything else?

can't rember which ferry warf but the squids were from pier 8. 

https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fishing/recreational/fishing-skills/fishing-in-sydney-harbour#:~:text=Recreational fishing in the Harbour,and other connected tidal waterways.&text=No fish or crustaceans caught,Harbour Bridge should be eaten.

 

[anthman]

On 4/24/2021 at 9:27 PM, bkk said:

are u talking about the daiwa baitjunkie typa ones? so for the one i have right now, should it be be retrieved slowly?

Only if you are talking about the jerkshad style (split tail). You work them aggressively. For paddle tail, work them slowly.

[bkk]

On 4/29/2021 at 10:34 PM, DerekD said:

Hi BKK, the government advice is not to.

Here is MY take on things based more on what I have read and reasoned. While I have seen some of the data it was a long time ago and I am not a marine scientist and I don't eat fish.

In the past on the Parramatta river there were chemical plants (and especially in the Homebush area). I've heard even agent Orange as used in the Vietnam war was made up there (I have not verified this).

Being less concerned (or probably less aware) of the environment there were chemical which got into the rivers. The dioxins were the bad one as they settle into the bottom and take a long time to break down. These can get into the food chain but it is not the same for all species. Something like bream which can live up to 30 years could develop a build up in their system over the years. This can then work its way into the humans but you would have to eat a lot of contaminated fish over the years. There were a number of families that commercially fished the harbour for several generations and I believe that fish made up a large part of their diet. Read this:

https://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1692445.htm

This is conjecture but I believe when it comes to the community the governing bodies have to take an extremely conservative view when advising people as to the safety of various activities. This I think is why they advised no fish to be eaten from the West of the bridge. It also ensures no come backs when people ignore the advice.

Most of the pelagics spend a lot of time outside the harbour so I think they are a low risk.

It is a non issue for me as most of my fishing is done in Sydney Harbour, Middle Harbour or Pittwater.

Regards,

Derek.

PS. Any local fishing shop should have the large eye single hooks. These are my usual go to for twisties but I get heavy duty ones too for other lures.

as pelagics move around a lot i hope it should be fine, but u never know if a king has eaten a fish that has dioxins in it tho.

generally speaking would you prefer jerk shad over zman diezel minnowz as it can help do a more aggressive retrieve or should i mix it up and see what works best.

[bkk]

On 4/30/2021 at 10:03 AM, slothparade said:

can't rember which ferry warf but the squids were from pier 8. 

https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fishing/recreational/fishing-skills/fishing-in-sydney-harbour#:~:text=Recreational fishing in the Harbour,and other connected tidal waterways.&text=No fish or crustaceans caught,Harbour Bridge should be eaten.

 

but pier 8 is at west of the sydney harbour bridge so i reckon only pelagics should be eaten from there.

[bkk]

On 4/30/2021 at 4:34 PM, anthman said:

Only if you are talking about the jerkshad style (split tail). You work them aggressively. For paddle tail, work them slowly.

what colour choice would be good for the jerkshad?

and what size, as well as hook size and weight

[slothparade]

16 hours ago, bkk said:

but pier 8 is at west of the sydney harbour bridge so i reckon only pelagics should be eaten from there.

Did you have a look at the table from the DPI I showed you. I have seen people taking leather jacket and bream from there. 

[bkk]

4 hours ago, slothparade said:

Did you have a look at the table from the DPI I showed you. I have seen people taking leather jacket and bream from there. 

yep ive had a look but i wouldnt take bream or leatherjackets as they live near the bottom, but the water seems to be clean there however but cant risk it. i feel like they should conduct a more recent test for the dioxins in fish as the last one was about ten years ago