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[big Neil]

Hi HP. May I suggest something which will bring you immediate results? A cheap (light) rod and reel, 4lb mono, size 12 hook. Berley as I indicated, small bait into the berley trail, keep the line reasonably tight. Guarantee you will catch something around the wharf pylons...maybe even legal sized Bream.

Let me know how many you catch. bn

[HawkesburyParadise]

1 minute ago, big Neil said:

Hi HP. May I suggest something which will bring you immediate results? A cheap (light) rod and reel, 4lb mono, size 12 hook. Berley as I indicated, small bait into the berley trail, keep the line reasonably tight. Guarantee you will catch something around the wharf pylons...maybe even legal sized Bream.

Let me know how many you catch. bn

See this is what confuses me. People suggest hook sizes from #2 to 12. What will 12 catch? Baitfish? lol.

The rest I can do. 

[lakelad]

On 11/29/2021 at 11:23 AM, HawkesburyParadise said:

I am not experiences enough to feel the bites both on the reel and rod. Only the biggest bites are being felt

Feeling bites is very much down to the line being taunt, and the equipment being used. 

If the line is loose between you and the hook you won't feel a bite. You're right, everyone will recommend different things.. What works for me when fishing for bream I'd use a 1-4kg rod with smaller reel (1000-2500) and 6-8lb braid (no stretch), 6-8lb fluro leader. I use size 2 hooks BTW for bream typically 20-40cm around our way.

I'd have no hope to try and get the same feel on my bottom bashing rod (24kg) or a basic surf rod (12 foot heavy things..) to the 1-4kg bream rod. I recall a holiday where I only had a beach rod and we ended up in a inlet fishing with nippers for whiting, was much harder on the 12 foot rod (graphite rod) than typically with a lighter 1-4kg setup - still got some whiting but less feel, more hit and hope and think I nearly ripped the heads off some when striking 😆

Enjoy the fishing, you know more than enough from these posts to get out there and see what works and get dinner. Every day on the water is a different day, keep the reports coming!

Edited November 30, 2021 by lakelad

[big Neil]

Just now, HawkesburyParadise said:

See this is what confuses me. People suggest hook sizes from #2 to 12. What will 12 catch? Baitfish? lol.

The rest I can do. 

What I am aiming for you to achieve is the feel of what is happening beneath the water. The hook size is not ABSOLUTELY RELEVANT, the aim being to get you feeling what it's like when a fish takes the bait. Obviously though a larger hook will mean a larger bait and the return to your initial problem. From there learn about a particular species and how to target them. Plenty of very good videos on Youtube, Shroom has some good ones.

bn

[Little_Flatty]

1 hour ago, HawkesburyParadise said:

See this is what confuses me. People suggest hook sizes from #2 to 12. What will 12 catch? Baitfish? lol.

The rest I can do. 

I went looking for a chart to help you with this, but thus far haven't succeeded. So instead I'll give you something off the top of my head. As a general  rule (others feel free to pipe in):

Size 12 and smaller will catch poddy mullet, garfish and anything that's small. If you get a bite with a hook that small, you're almost guaranteed a hookup on most fish, because they can easily take the whole thing into their mouths (which is probably the other reason Neil recommended it). You'll find an application for such small hooks if you spend enough time fishing, especially if you start live baiting. They always have a place in my kit.

Size 10 up to size 6 you can use for jackets (on prawn pieces) and whiting (on worms, depending on the diameter of the worm). 

Size 4, up to 1/0 or 2/0 you can use for bream and flathead.

And then 3/0 and upwards for successively larger baits. Generally speaking, you want your hook point to be exposed, and the hook size should be chosen to achieve this.

There's not a definitive hook size for each species; it's a range and depends on your chosen bait and presentation method. Flathead for instance, have really big mouths and I've had just-legal fish take a big plastic rigged on a 5/0 hook.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Little_Flatty

[HawkesburyParadise]

17 minutes ago, Little_Flatty said:

I went looking for a chart to help you with this, but thus far haven't succeeded. So instead I'll give you something off the top of my head. As a general  rule (others feel free to pipe in):

Size 12 and smaller will catch poddy mullet, garfish and anything that's small. If you get a bite with a hook that small, you're almost guaranteed a hookup on most fish, because they can easily take the whole thing into their mouths (which is probably the other reason Neil recommended it). You'll find an application for such small hooks if you spend enough time fishing, especially if you start live baiting. They always have a place in my kit.

Size 10 up to size 6 you can use for jackets (on prawn pieces) and whiting (on worms, depending on the diameter of the worm). 

Size 4, up to 1/0 or 2/0 you can use for bream and flathead.

And then 3/0 and upwards for successively larger baits. Generally speaking, you want your hook point to be exposed, and the hook size should be chosen to achieve this.

There's not a definitive hook size for each species; it's a range and depends on your chosen bait and presentation method. Flathead for instance, have really big mouths and I've had just-legal fish take a big plastic rigged on a 5/0 hook.

Thank you. Yes, this explains what Neil meant! 

[kingie chaser]

On 11/29/2021 at 10:57 PM, HawkesburyParadise said:

Can you explain why this is? I dislike the small ball sinkers for 2 reasons: 1) They get snagged very easily 2) I have a hard time keeping the line tight to a tiny ball sinker.

Why do you need to have a tight line??

Many fish that feel any tension will just drop the bait straight away.

Many people will bait fish with a totally unweighted bait, just letting it float down through the water column, even with the bail arm open & if they feel line peeling out close the bail arm & strike.

Lots of different ways to fish but it does depend on the species your actually trying to catch. 

One of the biggest things I have learnt in the last 10 years is to fish for a species in mind, that means find the structure/area that a particular species will habitat, use a rig that is designed to that species, fish as light as possible(line/leader/sinker/) that location/currents/tides permit.

If I am bait fishing the 2 most common types of rigs I use are these-

 

 

 

If I am fishing for whiting I would use the paternoster, but would use some fluro tube & beads just above the hook & would use a longer shanked hook.

 

Lots of different types of rigs out there, the sooner you learn about some of these & the habitat of certain species the more fish you will catch 😉.

 

Good luck.

Edited December 1, 2021 by kingie chaser

[big Neil]

52 minutes ago, kingie chaser said:

Why do you need to have a tight line??

Many fish that feel any tension will just drop the bait straight away.

Many people will bait fish with a totally unweighted bait, just letting it float down through the water column, even with the bail arm open & if they feel line peeling out close the bail arm & strike.

Lots of different ways to fish but it does depend on the species your actually trying to catch. 

One of the biggest things I have learnt in the last 10 years is to fish for a species, that means find the structure/area that a particular species will habitat, use a rig that is designed to that species, fish as light as possible(line/leader/sinker/) that location/currents/tides permit.

If I am bait fishing the 2 most common types of rigs I use are these-

 

 

 

If I am fishing for whiting I would use the paternoster, but would use some fluro tube & beads just above the hook & would use a longer shanked hook.

 

Lots of different types of rigs out there, the sooner you learn about some of these & the habitat of certain species the more fish you will catch 😉.

 

Good luck.

I'm definitely impressed by your graphics KC. Good job explaining things to HP. bn

[Little_Flatty]

1 hour ago, kingie chaser said:

Why do you need to have a tight line??

I think maybe 'tight' is the wrong word. Maybe it's more about staying in touch with your bait.

Most of my bait fishing is done with unweighted baits. I watch for bites via the belly of the line, or watching for line stripping off the spool with an open bail like you describe.

[HawkesburyParadise]

1 hour ago, Little_Flatty said:

I think maybe 'tight' is the wrong word. Maybe it's more about staying in touch with your bait.

Most of my bait fishing is done with unweighted baits. I watch for bites via the belly of the line, or watching for line stripping off the spool with an open bail like you describe.

Does the bait sink down eventually? I tried this with a piece of prawn but it took a long time to go anywhere and I had no bites at all. 

[Little_Flatty]

8 minutes ago, HawkesburyParadise said:

Does the bait sink down eventually? I tried this with a piece of prawn but it took a long time to go anywhere and I had no bites at all. 

It does, but you can only get away with this when there is no current or wind. When there is, I start by adding pea sized sinker running straight to the hook. If that doesn’t work, then I go larger and larger with the sinker. There is a point when the sinker size gets too unwieldy to sit directly on top of a bait, then you need to move to a typical running sinker rig with a trace, like in kingie’s video. But you’d be surprised how little weight you can get away with, even in current. The aim is to let the bait waft naturally down the water column, like a piece of bait in your berley trail.

It doesn’t always work, like most techniques. Notably it failed for me last time at Rushcutters bay. I think there wasn’t enough stealth to my approach, so I’ll try something new next time. That’s where the fun is in fishing…and most things for that matter…solving problems!

[kingie chaser]

6 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

Most of my bait fishing is done with unweighted baits. I watch for bites via the belly of the line, or watching for line stripping off the spool with an open bail like you describe.

Pretty much why I mentioned it.

There are a lot of different factors that go into it.

If I am fishing in 20mtrs of water & the sounder showing fish on the bottom then you need some weight to get it to where the fish are. If your fishing in 5mtrs of water then different story. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by kingie chaser

[kingie chaser]

On 11/29/2021 at 8:48 AM, big Neil said:

Thanks for your report HP, it made me laugh a bit. Lots of good anglers on this forum will shoot me down in flames for what I'm about to tell you, but that's what the site is all about. Ditch the circle hooks! Half the fun in angling is reading the bite and challenging yourself to hook the fish. Chucking a bait in with a circle hook leaves you with the minimum fun level of winding the fish in. Sure it will (most likely) be hooked in the corner of the mouth, but the real challenge is taken away by the fish hooking itself. I know there are benefits with circle hooks (possible less damage to the fish). Personally, I like to imagine what's going on beneath the water, it increases the anticipation level. You will soon learn when the fish has the bait in its mouth and is swimming away with it. Time to strike!

Some things you will learn in the short term. Small fish will pick a decent bait to pieces and not get hooked (most of the time). So use a smaller hook, little or no weight, and smaller bait size. Move the bait to make it harder for them...if you want to catch these small fish. Use berley to work the fish into a feeding frenzy where they will throw caution to the wind. A simple mix of bread and finely chopped fish is great for bringing Bream around jetties, etc. Most of all do the right thing by wifey, get more leave passes and enjoy the experience.

Cheers, bn

As usual BN there are different opinions in how we all look at things.

I don't see circle hooks as set & forget type of fishing, the fish can catch itself but I certainly believe that it will assist you especially in deep water fishing where there there is a lot of distance between the rod & the hook.

The fun starts when you do hook up, even if the rod is in the holder you still have to get it to the boat/shore, there are no guarantees on this unless you are really over gunned & thats not fun at all, we all love the feel of a real fight to the gear we are using(through every weigh class you can think of)

 

The other factor as you did mentioned is actually fish survival rates, the nsw dpi actually recommend the use of an offset circle hooks for that reason, so if we can save the fish we want to return by using a circle hook then Im all for it as long as it suits the type of fishing I am doing.

 

https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fishing/recreational/fishing-skills/catch-and-release

 

There are also people out there as well that just catch & release, no judging that(hey if I fish my intention is to always get a feed but also enjoy being on the water & company) & if that's what you want to do then again circles are a better option for the fish, especially with crushing the barb as well.