Early morning ninja session

[Little_Flatty]

Yesterday I mentioned that I wanted to head out targeting the old luderick. I had collected some weed on saturday (which appears to have largely disappeared since the rain - is this a thing?) but never got out, getting some flatties on lures instead.

Last night I was doing the time arithmetic to see if a before work session at Mosman was feasible. The math seemed to line up, so another plan was hatched and at 5am I was off to Mosman. I brought the fly rod and the bait rod. Got some berley in and started casting.

Early on, I got several downs, but somehow missed them all. Frustrating, but it helped me practice my 'dummy spit cast' which I noticed fly angers do when the miss a hit 🤣 Maybe you can call it a 'collapsed line-slap roll cast' 🤣

After about the fifth down, I connect to a fish which put a deep bend in my 8wt fly rod. I was in a bit of a pickle, because I had downsized to 4lb tippet but the fish was still doing its best to dust me off at my feet. After a bit of difficulty, I got it to the surface and into the net:

Stayed for another half hour or so, and got about ten takes on the weed fly, but missed them all! Tried everything - counting to six, striking straight away, just leaving it alone etc - nothing worked! One or two times I briefly connected to the fish, but that didn't last long enough to put a bend in the rod. Thought about getting the bait rod out but didn't get round to it in the short time I had.

Soon it was time to clean the one fish I had, then go home. Home well in time to have breakfast and drop off the kids, but it turns out I woke up the missus when I left, which was a major fail! Clearly my ninja game still needs work. So in spite of the fact that I can escape for a before work luderick session, I probably won't do this very often.

Anyhow, not bad to get a fish on fly before work in the morning! Fish for dinner tonight, so can't complain.

[kantong]

nice one, that fish very portly from the photo! Those ninja skills are always good to refine. A pre-packed car with a change of clothes always helps. 

[wazatherfisherman]

Mike consider yourself hooked, your lures will now gather dust and a centrepin will be on the shopping list along with floats etc, etc. Undoubtedly you will become 'secretive' about weed spots and refer to your collecting locations as 'down the river' or the ever popular 'spot X'. New words will start trickling into your fishing jargon like 'ups' and 'sleepers' and soon enough 'evil surgeons' will be a thing, before you know it you'll be 'counting' every time anything disappears from the surface. 

I see this as the beginning of a new phase of life that many fall victim to....

Yes also the weed dies off with too much heat, too much rain etc

Edited September 11, 2023 by wazatherfisherman

[big Neil]

A heartwarming report Mike. You really will have to put more work into the Ninja aspect of your angling lest "her indoors" curtails your early morning sojourns. I do hope that I am able to get back to Sydney, this Summer, to have another crack at the Luderick...sincerely my favourite type of fishing. Time will tell...

bn

[XD351]

I spent most of Saturday driving around looking for weed - from most of the canals in the parra river down into botany ending up at ramsgate and what little I saw was either dying or dead . Only one spot had a tiny amount of possibly useful weed and I may have been able to harvest a lump about the size of a cricket ball if I wanted to spend half an hour picking it out of the mud . I might have been better off going the ocean rocks route. I went for a run down to sow and pigs in the harbour a couple of weeks back and even the weed on the wharves and marker buoys down there was dead . Might have to try and get some freshwater stuff and grow my own . Makes me wonder what the luderick are eating if the weed is dead - maybe that is why they change over to eating worms and the like ? When I was a kid I could go to the bay next to putney boat ramp and get a bucket full in two minutes - now it is clean sand . Even up at wharf rd,  the bay next to it used to have acres of weed and we used to watch the eels slithering around feeding in it- now it is all mud . Not sure if it is the tighter pollution laws or the rivercat that caused this . 

[XD351]

This might help you with your early morning sessions Mike!

Four married guys went fishing. After an hour or so, the following conversation took place:
First guy: "You have no idea what I had to do to be able to come out fishing this weekend. I had to promise my wife I will paint every room in the house next weekend."

Second guy: "That's nothing! I had to promise my wife I'd build her a new deck for the pool."

Third guy: "Man, you both have it easy! I had to promise my wife that I'll remodel the kitchen for her."

They continued to fish, until they realized the fourth guy had not said a word.

So they asked him. "You haven't said anything about what you had to do to be able to come fishing this weekend. What's the deal?"

Fourth guy: "I just set my alarm for 5:30 am. When it went off, I shut off the clock, gave the wife a nudge and said, "Fishing, or Sex," and she said, “Don’t forget the bait”!

[Green Hornet]

Nice one Mike. Sometimes you really need those lightning fast ninja skills, blackfish can suck in and reject a fly as quick as any wily trout.

[Larkin]

I’m sure you enjoyed the feed Mike!

Can imagine it’s an addictive type of fishing - it’s one style I’m yet to try, def one day.

can’t remember where I saw it, might of been on here. But remember seeing someone growing weed in a bird bath in their backyard. Not sure if that’s a thing?

 

[XD351]

1 hour ago, Larkin said:

I’m sure you enjoyed the feed Mike!

Can imagine it’s an addictive type of fishing - it’s one style I’m yet to try, def one day.

can’t remember where I saw it, might of been on here. But remember seeing someone growing weed in a bird bath in their backyard. Not sure if that’s a thing?

 

I recently saw a similar thing on FB , that is where I got the idea of freshwater weed. I did consider trying to grow the saltwater variety but it seemed like a hassle and I never really worked out what the stuff eats .

[Burger]

I've seen a few posts on various FB sites about growing your own greenweed, both string and cabbage, most seem to be in an old fish tank in part morning sun.

Fed with aquarium plant food, I think . . . Some use aerators, some don't.

I'll check for a post this arvo and provide an update, as I have no access to FB at work.

Oh and apparently top up with rain water, or aged tap water, when water level drops due to evaporation, otherwise it becomes to salty.

[XD351]

Awesome ! Thanks Burger! I think I had a look on YouTube a while back but didn’t find anything useful , I will also have a scrounge around on FB and see what I can find .

[Little_Flatty]

On 9/11/2023 at 10:47 AM, kantong said:

nice one, that fish very portly from the photo! Those ninja skills are always good to refine. A pre-packed car with a change of clothes always helps. 

It was chubby indeed. I have another early morning fishing hustle conjured up in my head, and it involves heading into the office to work in the city that day! I'll see if I can work that one out!

15 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Mike consider yourself hooked, your lures will now gather dust and a centrepin will be on the shopping list along with floats etc, etc. Undoubtedly you will become 'secretive' about weed spots and refer to your collecting locations as 'down the river' or the ever popular 'spot X'. New words will start trickling into your fishing jargon like 'ups' and 'sleepers' and soon enough 'evil surgeons' will be a thing, before you know it you'll be 'counting' every time anything disappears from the surface. 

I see this as the beginning of a new phase of life that many fall victim to....

Yes also the weed dies off with too much heat, too much rain etc

Hahaa Waza, I certainly see the appeal. I'm not so sure about centrepins though (but I will admit to having wanted one!). I have started fly tying and we will see how well I keep that rabbit in a box! That said, I do feel that I've jumped the gun a bit targeting them on fly, without a protracted period targeting them on bait. That's why I tried fishing bait for them a couple of weekends ago. I won't say no to doing more bait fishing for them!  

10 hours ago, big Neil said:

A heartwarming report Mike. You really will have to put more work into the Ninja aspect of your angling lest "her indoors" curtails your early morning sojourns. I do hope that I am able to get back to Sydney, this Summer, to have another crack at the Luderick...sincerely my favourite type of fishing. Time will tell...

bn

Cheers Neil. To be honest, she wasn't that mad about it, but I don't want to stretch my luck. All in a respectful marriage, 'tis all 👼.

I might try to catch you if you make it to Sydney in summer. Just let me know 😎

9 hours ago, XD351 said:

I spent most of Saturday driving around looking for weed - from most of the canals in the parra river down into botany ending up at ramsgate and what little I saw was either dying or dead . Only one spot had a tiny amount of possibly useful weed and I may have been able to harvest a lump about the size of a cricket ball if I wanted to spend half an hour picking it out of the mud . I might have been better off going the ocean rocks route. I went for a run down to sow and pigs in the harbour a couple of weeks back and even the weed on the wharves and marker buoys down there was dead . Might have to try and get some freshwater stuff and grow my own . Makes me wonder what the luderick are eating if the weed is dead - maybe that is why they change over to eating worms and the like ? When I was a kid I could go to the bay next to putney boat ramp and get a bucket full in two minutes - now it is clean sand . Even up at wharf rd,  the bay next to it used to have acres of weed and we used to watch the eels slithering around feeding in it- now it is all mud . Not sure if it is the tighter pollution laws or the rivercat that caused this . 

Similar story for me. A few weeks ago, there was bucketloads of it on pontoons and wharves. This week the best I could do was a handful of 5cm stuff. Thankfully that's all you need.

9 hours ago, XD351 said:

This might help you with your early morning sessions Mike!

Four married guys went fishing. After an hour or so, the following conversation took place:
First guy: "You have no idea what I had to do to be able to come out fishing this weekend. I had to promise my wife I will paint every room in the house next weekend."

Second guy: "That's nothing! I had to promise my wife I'd build her a new deck for the pool."

Third guy: "Man, you both have it easy! I had to promise my wife that I'll remodel the kitchen for her."

They continued to fish, until they realized the fourth guy had not said a word.

So they asked him. "You haven't said anything about what you had to do to be able to come fishing this weekend. What's the deal?"

Fourth guy: "I just set my alarm for 5:30 am. When it went off, I shut off the clock, gave the wife a nudge and said, "Fishing, or Sex," and she said, “Don’t forget the bait”!

Cheeky! To be honest I have it pretty good, I don't really get a hard time for my early morning fishing. Whilst I do go to some lengths to ensure my fishing doesn't get in the way of family, it still does, even if only in small ways. We have to be honest to ourselves about that. Got to be grateful for what you have😎

6 hours ago, Green Hornet said:

Nice one Mike. Sometimes you really need those lightning fast ninja skills, blackfish can suck in and reject a fly as quick as any wily trout.

Thanks Pete. Line management is probably a big part of the issue for me. I need to leave a little less slack in the fly line whilst maintaining a natural drift. But good to see a bit of ninja training will help on the water, as well as getting to it without waking up the family  

5 hours ago, Larkin said:

I’m sure you enjoyed the feed Mike!

Can imagine it’s an addictive type of fishing - it’s one style I’m yet to try, def one day.

can’t remember where I saw it, might of been on here. But remember seeing someone growing weed in a bird bath in their backyard. Not sure if that’s a thing?

 

Thanks Chris. One day you should really have a go. It's only taken me 30+ years of fishing to have my first attempt, and it hasn't disappointed. I totally understand why some anglers fish for nothing else.

4 hours ago, XD351 said:

I recently saw a similar thing on FB , that is where I got the idea of freshwater weed. I did consider trying to grow the saltwater variety but it seemed like a hassle and I never really worked out what the stuff eats .

@XD351 @Burger, As for growing weed, I believe @Green Hornet has done it before in a tupperware tub, see below: 

Part of me enjoys the hunt and the challenge of finding a weed spot myself (although the three out of the four times I've looked for it, it's been bloody everywhere!). As a bonus, for some reason, every time I go scavenging for weed, the kids want to come with me. Shame I can't get them more interested in the fishing part of the equation!

 

 

[XD351]

Ok some of the stuff I found about this weed and possibly a way to grow it at home.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Ulva+intestinalis.&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-au&client=safari

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/md-2019-03-algae-turf-scrubbers-the-complete-guide-to-part-1?brs-source=mdredir
(There are three parts to this guide )

Also a video :

Well that was one rabbit hole leading to about a hundred more and oddly enough the name of the weed was right under my/our nose.

According to the all the videos I watched about the turf scrubber you only need water from where the weed grows naturally as it has the algae in it . I was thinking of trying it in a pcb etching bath like this-

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by XD351

[Green Hornet]

@XD351 Don’t overthink things, saltwater weed is easy to grow and since my original post above, by changing my brand of fertilizer, I’ve grown batches for over 12 months and the coloring and quality of the weed has improved during that time.

The trick is to use weed and your initial batch of water gathered from upstream a bit or from a coastal lake, for me at least, the weed that grows on the ocean rocks was a failure.

Place your container in a position that gets 2-3 hours of early morning sun if you can and the rest of the day in light shade, don’t let it get too hot and you should have no problems.

@Little_Flatty sorry for the high jack Mike.

[Little_Flatty]

2 hours ago, Green Hornet said:

@Little_Flatty sorry for the high jack Mike.

All good Pete, I want to know this too!

Any issues with mozzies? Also what about the critters that live in the weed? Do you need to get them out? I was fearing they’d die and go stinky.

Apart from that, it sounds like something I can outsource to the child labour available in my household, for a modest amount of pocket money. That said, it might not work; I think they enjoy the bait collection outings enough to not feel very motivated to maintain it 🤣.

[Green Hornet]

I don’t have trouble with mozzies, probably because it’s saltwater but then I also have a large bird bath in the yard that doesn’t attract them either.

I collect my weed from Swan Lake down at Sussex Inlet and it doesn’t have crawlies in it, though I know of others that source their weed from elsewhere that say the bugs will continue to live as long as you keep the water well aerated.

The aerator causes a fair bit of evaporation and a decent supply of distilled, fresh water is needed to keep topping up the tank. You can hardly rely on rain water these days unless you have a tank, so I catch all the distilled water from my air conditioners and if that runs low I grab a bucket or two from a clean creek nearby.

Edit: I should add, the only reason I grow it is weed is extremely difficult to find locally down here in the warmer months and 2 hour drives for nothing gets old mighty fast. With all the storm water systems and other backwaters in Sydney, from what I’ve read it’s much easier to source up there.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Green Hornet

[Little_Flatty]

5 hours ago, Green Hornet said:

I don’t have trouble with mozzies, probably because it’s saltwater but then I also have a large bird bath in the yard that doesn’t attract them either.

I collect my weed from Swan Lake down at Sussex Inlet and it doesn’t have crawlies in it, though I know of others that source their weed from elsewhere that say the bugs will continue to live as long as you keep the water well aerated.

The aerator causes a fair bit of evaporation and a decent supply of distilled, fresh water is needed to keep topping up the tank. You can hardly rely on rain water these days unless you have a tank, so I catch all the distilled water from my air conditioners and if that runs low I grab a bucket or two from a clean creek nearby.

Edit: I should add, the only reason I grow it is weed is extremely difficult to find locally down here in the warmer months and 2 hour drives for nothing gets old mighty fast. With all the storm water systems and other backwaters in Sydney, from what I’ve read it’s much easier to source up there.

Cheers Pete,

I have a massive mozzie problem at home and I don’t want to make it worse.

I have to see how I go, both with weed collecting and luderick angling in general. That said, @wazatherfisherman’s predictions of addiction sound pretty dire!🤣

[Burger]

Oh . . it's addictive alright . . . I was introduced as a young teenager . . .  and it lay dormant for many years, only to come back again as a 50yo... 😂

and yes being secretive about bait locations is DEFINITELY a thing . . .

I fish semi regularly with some mates and they always bring the bait . . . I ask where they get it, so I can make the trip and save them the bother sometimes  . . 

I ALWAYS get told ..  . nah it's alright it's close to home . . . . its been about 8 years I been fishing with these guys . . . maybe in a few more years I'll be worthy.  😅 😂

[wazatherfisherman]

7 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

Cheers Pete,

I have a massive mozzie problem at home and I don’t want to make it worse.

I have to see how I go, both with weed collecting and luderick angling in general. That said, @wazatherfisherman’s predictions of addiction sound pretty dire!🤣

Not if you own a tackle shop 🤣

 In all 'seriousness', once you have your rod, reel, floats, net, keepnet, along with a few hooks, swivels, sheet lead and a few strengths of leader line, fishing for the happy little striped fish is really one of the cheapest forms of fishing we can do these days. Some days you might lose a hook or 2 and on rare occasions a float (see 'Surgeonfish', Drummer) otherwise the only thing you need to replace is your bait (which is free usually) and burley.

Watching the float is 'purposeful' (many say therapeutic) and the rest of life can 'take a back seat' while on your fishy mission. You are dedicated to hunting your chosen species and about 90% of the time (in the estuaries anyway) are only going to encounter them. They give a good account of themselves battle-wise, are around in as good a number as ever, are mostly above legal size and can be relied upon to be available virtually year-round. Being very nice to eat is a bonus. Now that weed flies have become a 'thing', it adds another 'dimension' to the 'dark-art'

What's not to like about Luderick fishing?

[Little_Flatty]

6 hours ago, Burger said:

Oh . . it's addictive alright . . . I was introduced as a young teenager . . .  and it lay dormant for many years, only to come back again as a 50yo... 😂

and yes being secretive about bait locations is DEFINITELY a thing . . .

I fish semi regularly with some mates and they always bring the bait . . . I ask where they get it, so I can make the trip and save them the bother sometimes  . . 

I ALWAYS get told ..  . nah it's alright it's close to home . . . . its been about 8 years I been fishing with these guys . . . maybe in a few more years I'll be worthy.  😅 😂

Yeah I think honestly identifying the correct baits and sourcing them has been the hardest part of the journey. But the past few months (until last week) it's been everywhere I've looked!

I have ridden my bike past a VERY PROLIFIC source of weed recently...but you'll have to be worthy 🤣

14 minutes ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Not if you own a tackle shop 🤣

 In all 'seriousness', once you have your rod, reel, floats, net, keepnet, along with a few hooks, swivels, sheet lead and a few strengths of leader line, fishing for the happy little striped fish is really one of the cheapest forms of fishing we can do these days. Some days you might lose a hook or 2 and on rare occasions a float (see 'Surgeonfish', Drummer) otherwise the only thing you need to replace is your bait (which is free usually) and burley.

Watching the float is 'purposeful' (many say therapeutic) and the rest of life can 'take a back seat' while on your fishy mission. You are dedicated to hunting your chosen species and about 90% of the time (in the estuaries anyway) are only going to encounter them. They give a good account of themselves battle-wise, are around in as good a number as ever, are mostly above legal size and can be relied upon to be available virtually year-round. Being very nice to eat is a bonus. Now that weed flies have become a 'thing', it adds another 'dimension' to the 'dark-art'

What's not to like about Luderick fishing?

Totally agree Waza! I've enjoyed it thoroughly so far and yes, watching the float is certainly good for the soul. It certainly can be a very simple and frugal way of fishing, even when targeting them on fly. I would say that Luderick would now be my family's favourite fish to eat.

Speaking of weed flies, look at what I got recently:

Something to do on a windy day. Finally I have a seat at the craft table when everyone else is sewing or crafting! I've been tying other flies too, but these are topical.

[wazatherfisherman]

2 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

Yeah I think honestly identifying the correct baits and sourcing them has been the hardest part of the journey. But the past few months (until last week) it's been everywhere I've looked!

I have ridden my bike past a VERY PROLIFIC source of weed recently...but you'll have to be worthy 🤣

Totally agree Waza! I've enjoyed it thoroughly so far and yes, watching the float is certainly good for the soul. It certainly can be a very simple and frugal way of fishing, even when targeting them on fly. I would say that Luderick would now be my family's favourite fish to eat.

Speaking of weed flies, look at what I got recently:

Something to do on a windy day. Finally I have a seat at the craft table when everyone else is sewing or crafting! I've been tying other flies too, but these are topical.

I've made a few dozen too Mike!  One tip (a request from Derek actually) is to add a small amount of either lead wire or thin solder wire to the hook shank so the flies sink a bit quicker. After plenty of 'ordinary' attempts with different gauge lead wire, I think the finest stuff gives a better looking result. The other advantage of the lead wire is- after wrapping it around the shank you then glue it on with a tiny bit of 5 min araldite, which gives a strong point to assist with wrapping your waxed thread (which is flat) around your dub. Also worth noting- the larger sized dub packet contains dub that is much longer and I find much easier to use than the million small strands in the small packs.

I've tied some on several different hook types including Daichi's, old Mustad's and reckon those Panfish hooks end up looking the best. Add some of the scent that Pete alerted us to - Dizzy scent 'green weed' type and you're good to go. 

I sent Derek some English 'pole floats' to try that I think would make good 'strike indicators' which would be effective on regulation mono Luderick set ups. I'll send you some next I get near a post office

[XD351]

 

5 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

 

Yeah I think honestly identifying the correct baits and sourcing them has been the hardest part of the journey. But the past few months (until last week) it's been everywhere I've looked!

I have ridden my bike past a VERY PROLIFIC source of weed recently...but you'll have to be worthy 🤣

 

If this is where I think it is I have also thought of going in there but not sure if bait gathering is legal in there - I know that fishing is banned there . It does look good on google maps and street view though !

[Little_Flatty]

6 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

I've made a few dozen too Mike!  One tip (a request from Derek actually) is to add a small amount of either lead wire or thin solder wire to the hook shank so the flies sink a bit quicker. After plenty of 'ordinary' attempts with different gauge lead wire, I think the finest stuff gives a better looking result. The other advantage of the lead wire is- after wrapping it around the shank you then glue it on with a tiny bit of 5 min araldite, which gives a strong point to assist with wrapping your waxed thread (which is flat) around your dub. Also worth noting- the larger sized dub packet contains dub that is much longer and I find much easier to use than the million small strands in the small packs.

I've tied some on several different hook types including Daichi's, old Mustad's and reckon those Panfish hooks end up looking the best. Add some of the scent that Pete alerted us to - Dizzy scent 'green weed' type and you're good to go. 

I sent Derek some English 'pole floats' to try that I think would make good 'strike indicators' which would be effective on regulation mono Luderick set ups. I'll send you some next I get near a post office

Thanks Waza, I do have some lead wire thanks to tying a few bendbacks. The weed flies I have been using (from a well known and respected professional tyer) have a tungsten bead on them. Thanks for the tip on the weed dub.

I have a tube of that Dizzy scent somewhere, haven't used it yet and should dig it out.

The pole floats look interesting. I actually have a couple of similar ones I bought from a vintage shop in Bowral...are they the ones where you need a tube to fix it?

3 hours ago, XD351 said:

 

If this is where I think it is I have also thought of going in there but not sure if bait gathering is legal in there - I know that fishing is banned there . It does look good on google maps and street view though !

THAT did cross my mind as well, but yes, it would require an enquiry with the DPI and the local authorities. Besides, it is a bit🤢🤮

There is another option that is a certain coastal lake on the Northern Beaches. This time last year it was covered in it:

I might go for a drive on the weekend and have a look.

[Burger]

If you're up the Northern Beaches way, grab a bit of cabbage off just about any of the rock ledges, that can work in the estuary too.

It won't last as well as string does though and I believe some headlands (Long Reef?) may be no-take so check that too. 

Cheers, stu.

[wazatherfisherman]

Hi Mike yes silicon tubing holds them in place (just like a normal fixed float) Due to their small size and aerodynamic shape I can't see why they wouldn't be effective as a strike indicator, with the advantage of having a stem which would provide better visibility over a long distance. I've got heaps of them that I bought mistakenly thinking they were about 5 times larger than they are! Great for Garfish otherwise LOL