Combo for lure fishing beaches

[slothparade]

I have spent many hours reasearching and testing many different rods and reels for throwing lures in the surf for species such as jewfish, tailor, salmon, ect, but also will be able to throw small baits off the beach.

The fundementals of the rod, it needed to have a softer tip for lauching soft plastics, small hard bodies and metals, while having the backbone to put the hurt on large jewfish. The weight of the rod was a large deciding factor as you need to be able to cast the rod mulptiple times. Furthermore, the handle must be taken into consideration ad the comfort it provides, as this can make or break the experince of using the rod. Finally, for lure casting, a sorter rod is preferable, around the 10ft, as it allows you to control the lure but also helped to reduce wieght. These are the rods I considered and tested:

Penn prevail 1002: Rather stiff tip and on the heavy side. Definitley more of a heavy stick bait/ popping, metal or bait rod. The handle is comfortable, very strong backbone. All round, it was a strong contender. Finally it balanced very well with a saragosa 6000HG. 

Dawia Sensor Surf 962H: It felt great, reasonably stiff tip but not as stiff as the prevail. This was lighter than the prevail, handles soft plastsics and stickbaits well. But overall the line rating and cast rating where to high for the lures I was planning on throwing. 

Dawia Sensor Sand Storm 1062MH: soft tip, but amazingly strong backbone and extremely light, the lightest of the lot. Best suited for metals, soft plastics and small baits, not stickbaits. paired perfectly with the saragosa 6000hg. Only complaint is the handle is a bit on the skinny side. 

Abu Garcia 1002: Had rather high hopes for this rod, but once I put the reel on the rod, I found the rod to be rather heavy and cumbersome, had a mildly stiff tip which made it a good contender. Unfortuately I just found it rather uncomfortable to hold due to the handle and the weight. 

The most optimum reel is one that holds a fair bit of braid, has a smooth drag, is sealed, and overall is light and compact. For me, the saragosa 6000HG ticked all the boxes, spooled with 20 lbs braid. The combo that I chose consists of a Saragosa 6000HG and a Dawia Sensor Sand Storm 1062MH 8-15kg 10'6". The combo is overall very light and portable, while remaining strong enough to tussle with most things on the beach. 

I hope that this helps anyone else in the future that is experincing the situation I was. 

I just want to say a special thanks to @DrRaymondSnapper, @Restyle and @Steve0, for the absolute wealth of knowledge and advice they provided, thankyou.

[Restyle]

Now to catch some fish once the swell dies back.

speaking of sensor surfs i bought 3 older model 15ft 10-20kg (red rods) for 300$ each on special. Down from 450. 1 for me and other two for a mate each. Same tackle store has 10ft ones on special for 275 or 250

[slowjigger]

Sensor Surfs are very high quality. I have 2 - but overhead versions. I'm not sure if braid is a good idea off the beach. Also you are making it a bit hard for yourself using lures off the beach. Not very productive compared to bait in my experience. 

[slothparade]

3 hours ago, Restyle said:

Now to catch some fish once the swell dies back.

speaking of sensor surfs i bought 3 older model 15ft 10-20kg (red rods) for 300$ each on special. Down from 450. 1 for me and other two for a mate each. Same tackle store has 10ft ones on special for 275 or 250

Unfortunately this was a early bday present so have to wait a little. 

That would have been great, unfortunately the shop I was at only had the new ones in the 12' heavy. Definitely a lovely rod though, but just wasn't what I was after. 

[slothparade]

53 minutes ago, slowjigger said:

Sensor Surfs are very high quality. I have 2 - but overhead versions. I'm not sure if braid is a good idea off the beach. Also you are making it a bit hard for yourself using lures off the beach. Not very productive compared to bait in my experience. 

Don't get me wrong, the sensor surfs are great rods, just found that I couldn't get one that suited my needs. Wasn't aware they had overhead ones. All my local shops are quite limited in selection which makes it difficult. 

That's an interesting discussion. Basically all my reels are braid, with all sorts of different brands. I have J braid, Shimano braid, cheap online braid, hollow core, and a couple others. The only braid that has caused me grief was the platypus braid. Everytime I use that off the beach, of gets knotted, must admit I was rather disappointed with that braid. The other reason for going braid was this is my reel for doing basically everything, jigging off the kayak, bottom bashing, beach fishing, popping, stick baiting ECT. In saying that though, I do have a couple reels with mono for the beach and that has never given me grief either. I'm not sure how true it is that braid is problematic on the beach, because sometimes I'll have about 500m of braid out (granted it has a brick at the end), bit it's never knotted or anything. 

Definitely not wrong there, I actually chose to focus on lures for 2 reasons. The first being I would like to try something new and challenge myself by taking a more proactive form of fishing instead of parking up, sending out a bait and then watching a movie. And the second reason is I'm doing a lot more touring where fridge space is a premium, so unfortunately I don't exactly have room for bait. But you are right, I will be keeping my 2 current bait rods and getting a 3rd. 

[slowjigger]

Braid is prone to tangling with all the tumbling it gets in the surf - more so with bait fishing. Also not very abrasion resistant which could be a problem with all the sand and grit. Plus the extra stretch of mono is an asset trying to land a big fish when there is a wash/ surge to contend with. 

Edited May 2 by slowjigger

[Steve0]

Braid is first class for lure tossing. You feel everything the fish does. Hooking a fish 50m or so away using mono you feel the weight gradually increasing. Braid is unforgiving of your mistakes. The stretch in mono absorbs shocks and changes and is far more forgiving. Braid casts further (WFT Gliss casts substantially further than braid but I couldn't recommend it - too fragile). If you toss lures for sport, use braid. If you want a better chance of landing your fish, use mono. Two spools may be an option if you plan both lure and bait use.

[slothparade]

13 hours ago, slowjigger said:

Braid is prone to tangling with all the tumbling it gets in the surf - more so with bait fishing. Also not very abrasion resistant which could be a problem with all the sand and grit. Plus the extra stretch of mono is an asset trying to land a big fish when there is a wash/ surge to contend with. 

That's very interesting, can only say that I've experienced that once. Very valid issue though and have taken it into consideration. I do have a couple other setups more dedicated to bait. With a reel that has been spooled with fluro carbon and a different reel spooled with mono. 

This setup will be 90% lure, and on occasion if I find a pippi, I'll put a small sinker on or slow retrieve pillis. 

Actually, the other day I was having issues landing fish in the waves. They seemed get tumbled around and fall off the hook. Is that a matter of not keeping up enough pressure, hooks were to small, or line? 

[slowjigger]

6 hours ago, slothparade said:

That's very interesting, can only say that I've experienced that once. Very valid issue though and have taken it into consideration. I do have a couple other setups more dedicated to bait. With a reel that has been spooled with fluro carbon and a different reel spooled with mono. 

This setup will be 90% lure, and on occasion if I find a pippi, I'll put a small sinker on or slow retrieve pillis. 

Actually, the other day I was having issues landing fish in the waves. They seemed get tumbled around and fall off the hook. Is that a matter of not keeping up enough pressure, hooks were to small, or line? 

Yes it's important to keep tension on the line - which can be hard to do when a wave picks up the fish. Sometimes I ran backwards while winding flat out when that happens.

[Steve0]

8 hours ago, slothparade said:

That's very interesting, can only say that I've experienced that once. Very valid issue though and have taken it into consideration. I do have a couple other setups more dedicated to bait. With a reel that has been spooled with fluro carbon and a different reel spooled with mono. 

This setup will be 90% lure, and on occasion if I find a pippi, I'll put a small sinker on or slow retrieve pillis. 

Actually, the other day I was having issues landing fish in the waves. They seemed get tumbled around and fall off the hook. Is that a matter of not keeping up enough pressure, hooks were to small, or line? 

Shore breaks are always hard. Water pressure comes at the fish from different directions. They have better reflexes than us and can use the changes or they may get tumbled about.  Whatever I do became automatic over the years. There may be something I miss, but thinking it through. 

1) Logically, rod tip low would help keep the head down. Make sure you have a good bend in the rod, being careful not to reach the high stick angle. (Edit: remember that guide friction from a more bent rod increases drag pressure).

2) Standing back reduces the severity of the line angle changes as the fish changes direction.

3) Watch the waves carefully. Don't try to pull the fish in against the receding water. Hold it then use incoming water to wash it up. Remain calm if it doesn't happen. If it starts taking line, reduce the rod angle.  Keep playing it and remain calm. If you can't catch one wave, you can catch another.

4)  Walk the fish along to a friendlier location as you play it. This probably should be #1, but I enjoy the challenge of landing them in tough locations.

A lighter lure is less easily dislodged. For a while, I was using only an assist hook on my heavier lures. It lure reduces leverage at the hook. 

Edited May 3 by Steve0

[slothparade]

On 5/3/2024 at 6:55 PM, Steve0 said:

Shore breaks are always hard. Water pressure comes at the fish from different directions. They have better reflexes than us and can use the changes or they may get tumbled about.  Whatever I do became automatic over the years. There may be something I miss, but thinking it through. 

1) Logically, rod tip low would help keep the head down. Make sure you have a good bend in the rod, being careful not to reach the high stick angle. (Edit: remember that guide friction from a more bent rod increases drag pressure).

2) Standing back reduces the severity of the line angle changes as the fish changes direction.

3) Watch the waves carefully. Don't try to pull the fish in against the receding water. Hold it then use incoming water to wash it up. Remain calm if it doesn't happen. If it starts taking line, reduce the rod angle.  Keep playing it and remain calm. If you can't catch one wave, you can catch another.

4)  Walk the fish along to a friendlier location as you play it. This probably should be #1, but I enjoy the challenge of landing them in tough locations.

A lighter lure is less easily dislodged. For a while, I was using only an assist hook on my heavier lures. It lure reduces leverage at the hook. 

Thank you for the advice! Much appreciated. 

What I believe was happening, was the fish was be brought up into ankle deep water, but the wave would break a second time right on top of it, tumbling it around and knocking the hooks out since I couldn't keep the tension up. Where I was located, about 20m out there was a big sandbar which was spotting the large swell, but then were was this deep dip in front of the sand bank with a lot of white water then another sand bank only a couple m off the sand. And it was in that 2m of sand that the fish were coming off. 

Do you recommend keeping the rod high angle within reason or tilting it to the side, while walking backwards, maintaining a larger bend on the rod? From observing some locals, I noticed they tend to have the rod parallel to the beach and walk backwards with one hand on the spool. 

I always try to bring them on when there's a wave coming in, but I find that theres always a strong current pulling out underneath the wave. Is that a factor of the gutter I choose? Should I move over to find somewhere that does not have such a strong under current? 

Do you use an assist trebel hook or just a normal hook? I've heard some say that assist hooks can bend, have you ever had that issue? 

Thanks again for the help, I've only had this issue a couple of times, usually I don't have any issues getting them onto the beach. 

[Steve0]

5 hours ago, slothparade said:

Thank you for the advice! Much appreciated. 

What I believe was happening, was the fish was be brought up into ankle deep water, but the wave would break a second time right on top of it, tumbling it around and knocking the hooks out since I couldn't keep the tension up. Where I was located, about 20m out there was a big sandbar which was spotting the large swell, but then were was this deep dip in front of the sand bank with a lot of white water then another sand bank only a couple m off the sand. And it was in that 2m of sand that the fish were coming off. 

Do you recommend keeping the rod high angle within reason or tilting it to the side, while walking backwards, maintaining a larger bend on the rod? From observing some locals, I noticed they tend to have the rod parallel to the beach and walk backwards with one hand on the spool. 

I always try to bring them on when there's a wave coming in, but I find that theres always a strong current pulling out underneath the wave. Is that a factor of the gutter I choose? Should I move over to find somewhere that does not have such a strong under current? 

Do you use an assist trebel hook or just a normal hook? I've heard some say that assist hooks can bend, have you ever had that issue? 

Thanks again for the help, I've only had this issue a couple of times, usually I don't have any issues getting them onto the beach. 

On the beach with fish on, my rod tip is always to the side and low. The degree of bend depends - straighter lets them pull line easier. More bend = more hurry up.  Generally I give the fish a lot of 'hurry up' bringing them through hard locations (against rips, across shallow sandbars and shore breaks). Sometimes I'll be cranking and pumping hard (mindful that the result is not a spool spinning on the drag), while walking slowly backwards. If possible, tire them out wide in calmer water before getting them to the hard locations.

Away from stronger shore break and resulting is preferable for landing, but it's not always possible. Angle them across a rip, if possible, towards weaker current. You need luck with the outer side of shallow sandbar on lower tide.  When conditions suit, strip all but shorts and fish from the sandbar may help.       

I use mostly 40g lead lures. I distrust standard trebles. With large fish, a hook only needs to straighten a little to lose you a fish. Trebles often have small barbs. My first job with a new batch of lures is to fit quality rings and 3X 3/0 Mustad Hoodlum single hooks (not a simple job with very strong rings and thick wire hook).  They have a long point and relatively large barb that probably raised my overall Salmon landed rate from 85% to 90%. When I used an assist, it was as a replacement for the back end hook, but tied at the front, so the hook sat where the hook would normally be at the back of the lure. I thought that photo showed it, but zooming now, I can't make out the leader. Leader and assist were attached to the same ring. They are fairly easy to tie. Kevlar cord and a relatively simple knot. Some people like to tidy up with shrink wrap. That gives more Tailor tooth protection. As you see in the photo, I didn't bother, and would switch to a regular lure with a lot of Tailor about. You'll also see in the photo, not a lot of trouble was taken trimming the knot close. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5 by Steve0

[GoldenHourFishing]

I prefer to go lighter for my rods and reels in the surf, because heavier gear is way more fatiguing over long sessions and a big jew or salmon wont spool you on 3000-4000 size reel. I think most of the people that use 6k and up reels in the surf a predominantly bait fishos? I dare say most peole running these setups rarely have ever had any more than 20 percent of the line capacity see daylight, unless you hook a shark or a ray. And chucking metals, I will probably never have that issue, the lure isnt sitting still long enough for anything that big to hit it. Although I never use any of these setups for any bait fishing, maybe I will one day. 

Light Surf Jigging: 
Shimano Hardrocker BB S832MH 6-12lb 
18 Shimano Excsence ci4 3000MHG 
Varivas 8 PE 1.0

Used mostly for metals in the 20 gram range, it has a cast rating of 8 - 32 grams so 20 is the sweet spot. I have caught countless tailor and also salmon on this, with the odd trevally and even a couple of rat kings. Its also fine for working plastic but you want about 5 grams and up given the rating of the rod. Ive used it recently in the estuaries and have pulled a few flatties and a trev. This is a lot of fun for your tailor and salmon seasons and more than capable in the surf as your chances of getting busted off are pretty low. 10-14lb leader on this. 

Medium Light Surf Jigging: 
Palms Shore Gun Evolv SFTGS-106M+ FL
Shimano Twin Power XD 4000xg 
Avani Casting PE 1.5

I use this for 30 - 40 gram metals, this rod is aimed at targeting flatfish from the surf in japan hence the "FL" in the rods sku, flatfish is what they call flounder and they get a lot larger overseas. I opted for this model because its the only one in the range that is 10ft and I wanted something more capable in the surf incase I hooked onto some larger species, but could also be used off the stones. Its considered one of the rarer models in the range due to its specifc application. You can throw larger plastics with this, but its like working a lure with a 10ft telegraph pole, not fun over time, wrist fatigue sets in. Same species caught on this setup but im more inclined to use it if bonito and kings are around, easier to turn the fishes head on this one, the higher drag capacity over the 3k excsence coupled with the heavier rod makes most fights shorter. 

 

Anyway just my experience, if you only plan to throw lures for 2 hours then it doesnt really matter, but long sessions walking the surf because a tiring endevour when you are talking triple digit casts. 

 

 

[thatdan1000]

I have a Daiwa Saltist Hyper 962 PE4-6 that I use for my landbased Mulloway luring, it's the dream rod for it.

Most of my fishing with it is off breakwalls, but it's also great at the beach! 

It is definitely for lures on the heavier side though (I fish 50-120g lures but it casts up to 150g)

Can't rate it highly enough, first night out with it I landed a 106cm silver ghost!