I swear the Luderick hate me

[Burger]

On 8/30/2024 at 8:42 AM, sashkello said:

leader is below 20lb

20lb is a seriously heavy leader!

My go to leader in the harbour is 6lb and I don’t recall being broken off by a lude …. a salmon yes, but not a lude. 

[Peter KH]

If your lift the fish straight out of water without a net and the fish is about that  35cm mark, 6lb would have me worried. I normally fish 8 or 10lb fluro leader. Some luderick can get pretty heavy. With a net though, 6lb is fine.

Edited August 31 by Peter KH

[Little_Flatty]

1 hour ago, Burger said:

20lb is a seriously heavy leader!

My go to leader in the harbour is 6lb and I don’t recall being broken off by a lude …. a salmon yes, but not a lude. 

Yes I was talking to staff in the tackle shop recently and he's been saying that this season customers have been needing to go 6lb or lighter to attract bites on some days.

I've been fishing 4lb and haven't broken off a hook yet (though I've had plenty drop off the hook).

[faker]

10 minutes ago, Little_Flatty said:

Yes I was talking to staff in the tackle shop recently and he's been saying that this season customers have been needing to go 6lb or lighter to attract bites on some days.

I've been fishing 4lb and haven't broken off a hook yet (though I've had plenty drop off the hook).

The only time i would fish 6lb is off my haunts in middle head. So i can wash fish up. 

Sometimes fish get me around pylons on a 6lb and even on middle head i had beem reefed

[sashkello]

15 hours ago, Burger said:

20lb is a seriously heavy leader!

My go to leader in the harbour is 6lb and I don’t recall being broken off by a lude …. a salmon yes, but not a lude. 

I'm not talking about what leader you have to have, but what leader you can get away with. I catch plenty of luderick on 12lb because that's the middle ground I use so that I can switch between trying for drummer or luderick without retying. Used to go with 6lb, but after fishing on 12 I really haven't noticed any difference. What I'm saying is that if you aren't getting any downs, leader is unlikely to be the problem number 1. It's most likely that fish isn't there, or your bait is somewhere where they don't see it.

[Burger]

15 hours ago, Peter KH said:

lift the fish straight out of water without a net

Why would you not use a net in the harbour?

If you can’t tame a decent lud on 6 or 8lb leader, you’re not using your gear to it’s fullest by putting max pressure on.

Sure heavier leader will be needed if you are lifting fish, but it’s not a requirement and you will hook more fish on lighter leader.

But, as in all things, everyone has their own ideas/ways of doing things and this is how it should be.

[Steve0]

1 hour ago, sashkello said:

I'm not talking about what leader you have to have, but what leader you can get away with. I catch plenty of luderick on 12lb because that's the middle ground I use so that I can switch between trying for drummer or luderick without retying. Used to go with 6lb, but after fishing on 12 I really haven't noticed any difference. What I'm saying is that if you aren't getting any downs, leader is unlikely to be the problem number 1. It's most likely that fish isn't there, or your bait is somewhere where they don't see it.

 I lost a lot of by-catch Drummer fishing for Luderick with fairly floss. That's smart thinking, Sasha.

 

[Peter KH]

5 hours ago, Burger said:

Why would you not use a net in the harbour?

If you can’t tame a decent lud on 6 or 8lb leader, you’re not using your gear to it’s fullest by putting max pressure on.

Sure heavier leader will be needed if you are lifting fish, but it’s not a requirement and you will hook more fish on lighter leader.

But, as in all things, everyone has their own ideas/ways of doing things and this is how it should be.

When the leader gets badly compromised by fish around pylons, reef and rocks, I would rather my 10lb get damaged then 6lb. I fish the seawalls at the back of my family home. Only lifting the fish around 1m or so. I don;t really need a net, and because I'm walking around, I often find myself leaving the net in the boatshed. I net is always ideal however, I normally get by just fine without them. Not arguing, just saying I typically run 10lb, I would run 8lb but I've run out, I find 6lb isnt necessary, the luderick don't seem to be too fussy when I fish for them.

[TheFishyFisherman]

I went to balmoral today with stringy cabbage collected from this morning but it was too windy and the float rig kept moving towards and tangling around the pylons because of the wind so I used the emergency chicken as bait with running sinker rigs. When the wind settled a bit later in the afternoon, I tried again and burleyed with cabbage and sand. That attracted a few luderick and I had 5 hookups. Lost 3 becuase they tangled on the pylons becuase I was pretty close to them so the fight would last less than 2 seconds. I set up a weightless rig really quickly with just a hook and was getting bites. I struck and was on again but it spat the hook out. I was on my last piece of weed and casted it near the pylons again. Was on a another again but the knot slipped and the hook fell off. It was probably from tying the knot really quickly becuase it was a poorly done knot. I ran out of size 8 hooks so I was using size 6 as an alternative for the last 3 fish. Also, I strike 3 seconds after the float goes down but I’m not sure if that’s the correct method. This experience has gotten me closer to learning about blackfishing though so I was pretty satisfied 🤗

Edited September 1 by TheFishyFisherman

[Little_Flatty]

55 minutes ago, TheFishyFisherman said:

I went to balmoral today with stringy cabbage collected from this morning but it was too windy and the float rig kept moving towards and tangling around the pylons because of the wind so I used the emergency chicken as bait with running sinker rigs. When the wind settled a bit later in the afternoon, I tried again and burleyed with cabbage and sand. That attracted a few luderick and I had 5 hookups. Lost 3 becuase they tangled on the pylons becuase I was pretty close to them so the fight would last less than 2 seconds. I set up a weightless rig really quickly with just a hook and was getting bites. I struck and was on again but it spat the hook out. I was on my last piece of weed and casted it near the pylons again. Was on a another again but the knot slipped and the hook fell off. It was probably from tying the knot really quickly becuase it was a poorly done knot. I ran out of size 8 hooks so I was using size 6 as an alternative for the last 3 fish. Also, I strike 3 seconds after the float goes down but I’m not sure if that’s the correct method. This experience has gotten me closer to learning about blackfishing though so I was pretty satisfied 🤗

Hey that’s great. If you’re getting hookups, that’s 90% of the battle won!

[Peter KH]

3 hours ago, TheFishyFisherman said:

I ran out of size 8 hooks so I was using size 6 as an alternative for the last 3 fish. Also, I strike 3 seconds after the float goes down but I’m not sure if that’s the correct method. This experience has gotten me closer to learning about blackfishing though so I was pretty satisfied 🤗

I normally use size 10 mustad blackfish hooks.

As soon as I see the float go completely under I strike, no waiting around here!!!!! By biggest rookie mistake when I first start luderick was using a huge float that was the size of a tennis ball, the fish would take it completely under however, I did miss a hell of a lot more fish than I do now after using a small cork float that I've made.

[faker]

4 hours ago, TheFishyFisherman said:

I went to balmoral today with stringy cabbage collected from this morning but it was too windy and the float rig kept moving towards and tangling around the pylons because of the wind so I used the emergency chicken as bait with running sinker rigs. When the wind settled a bit later in the afternoon, I tried again and burleyed with cabbage and sand. That attracted a few luderick and I had 5 hookups. Lost 3 becuase they tangled on the pylons becuase I was pretty close to them so the fight would last less than 2 seconds. I set up a weightless rig really quickly with just a hook and was getting bites. I struck and was on again but it spat the hook out. I was on my last piece of weed and casted it near the pylons again. Was on a another again but the knot slipped and the hook fell off. It was probably from tying the knot really quickly becuase it was a poorly done knot. I ran out of size 8 hooks so I was using size 6 as an alternative for the last 3 fish. Also, I strike 3 seconds after the float goes down but I’m not sure if that’s the correct method. This experience has gotten me closer to learning about blackfishing though so I was pretty satisfied 🤗

Stringy cabbage?

You mean string hair weed or just cabbage weed or some type of new weed?

[Burger]

4 hours ago, TheFishyFisherman said:

strike 3 seconds after the float goes down

How long to wait can vary with every session or even during a session.

1 thousand, 2 thousand, 3 thousand (3 seconds) is a good starting point, but I've had days where I waited 10 seconds to get a hookup and others where you strike straight away.

There's no hard n fast rule to it.

stu.

[wazatherfisherman]

Regardless of the strength of your line, if you keep the line diameter about .20mm you will get more bites. This applies to fishing for Bream in daylight hours also.

We fished both the ocean rocks and Sydney Harbour for Luderick for nearly 50 years and use 3kg line (still do) as the heaviest line- occasionally dropping to either 2.5kg or less frequently 2kg for leader if the water is clear, main line has always been 3kg 'Tortue Supercontrol' and you can handle any size fish with it. You only need heavier than 3kg if you are lifting fish more than a meter or so, then I personally might go 1kg heavier but no more because of the 'reduced' bite numbers.

During sportsfishing comps like the Narooma Convention, we used 1kg and landed 90% of the fish we hooked- this is of course 'location-specific' Lighter the line, the more 'downs' you are going to get and that's really what you want to acheive. Learning to play the fish is what it's all about and you'll get heaps more action/'possibilities' with light line.

When I was a kid, the 'general rule' for Luderick was as follows- from the rocks 8 or 9lb main and 6 or 7lb leader, in the estuaries 6 or 7lb main and 4 or 5lb leader. The only times a heavier line is necessary is when fishing areas that have really strong tidal-pull like river entrances.

"Fish light to get the bite" was the old creed

 

[XD351]

The only time I ever had a problem with 6lb leader was at the spit bridge - surgeon fish broke that easily but go up to 10lb and you wouldn’t get a down . I have two spools of leader - 6lb and 4lb but use the 6lb mostly , if the water is gin clear I use 4lb . 
Anyone noticed an improvement or deterioration in bite numbers between fluoro and mono ? What about between normal fluoro and sinking fluoro?  Only thing I can suggest is you try different breaking strains to see what works for you and the locations you fish .

Fishing a location and not getting any downs can be caused by a few things :

They simply aren’t there.

They’re there but not feeding - berley can fix this most times .

Your bait isn’t where the fish are - try different depths .

Something on your rig is putting them off - could be trace length or diameter, could be the placement of the split shot on the leader , maybe there is something shiny on your rig like the swivel ,the split shot or the hook -the mustard weed hooks go a shiny gold colour when the green coating wears off - which it does very easily. 
Your bait presentation and size are another thing to consider as well.

 

[faker]

2 hours ago, XD351 said:

The only time I ever had a problem with 6lb leader was at the spit bridge - surgeon fish broke that easily but go up to 10lb and you wouldn’t get a down . I have two spools of leader - 6lb and 4lb but use the 6lb mostly , if the water is gin clear I use 4lb . 
Anyone noticed an improvement or deterioration in bite numbers between fluoro and mono ? What about between normal fluoro and sinking fluoro?  Only thing I can suggest is you try different breaking strains to see what works for you and the locations you fish .

Fishing a location and not getting any downs can be caused by a few things :

They simply aren’t there.

They’re there but not feeding - berley can fix this most times .

Your bait isn’t where the fish are - try different depths .

Something on your rig is putting them off - could be trace length or diameter, could be the placement of the split shot on the leader , maybe there is something shiny on your rig like the swivel ,the split shot or the hook -the mustard weed hooks go a shiny gold colour when the green coating wears off - which it does very easily. 
Your bait presentation and size are another thing to consider as well.

 

Where abouts do you fish near spit bridge for luderick?

[XD351]

3 minutes ago, faker said:

Where abouts do you fish near spit bridge for luderick?

A long , long time ago you could tie a boat up to the wooden barricade on the bridge - there was always a boat tied up there fishing for luds. 
You could try the shoreline in the yellow circle . 

[Burger]

3 hours ago, XD351 said:

Anyone noticed an improvement or deterioration in bite numbers between fluoro and mono

I’ve wondered about this too and have to admit to using fluoro mainly due to marketing spiel on invisibility….

But who knows what fish actually see.

[TheFishyFisherman]

10 hours ago, faker said:

Stringy cabbage?

You mean string hair weed or just cabbage weed or some type of new weed?

I don’t have a photo but there was cabbage growing where I collected it and stringy stuff growing with it so I assumed it’s cabbage even tho it was like hair. I’ll get a picture next time I go and post it here.

Edited September 1 by TheFishyFisherman

[faker]

57 minutes ago, XD351 said:

A long , long time ago you could tie a boat up to the wooden barricade on the bridge - there was always a boat tied up there fishing for luds. 
You could try the shoreline in the yellow circle . 

Any recommended tide?

I fish normally at cobblers. Have not fished georges head for them

[faker]

8 minutes ago, TheFishyFisherman said:

I don’t have a photo but there was cabbage growing where I collected it and stringy stuff growing with it so I assumed it’s cabbage even tho it was like hair. I’ll get a picture next time I go and post it here.

Any chance dark green stuff that is like strings of cabbage weed here?

[TheFishyFisherman]

Just now, faker said:

Any chance dark green stuff that is like strings of cabbage weed here?

Sorry but I don’t know… I’m still a newbie at this

[sashkello]

16 hours ago, TheFishyFisherman said:

I ran out of size 8 hooks so I was using size 6 as an alternative for the last 3 fish. Also, I strike 3 seconds after the float goes down but I’m not sure if that’s the correct method

That sounds OK regarding striking - waiting a few seconds is what you see people usually recommend unless the area is extremely snaggy.

Hook is OK as well - I mean, you can use tiny ones, but bigger fish will not mind taking 6-8 hook, and unhooking undersized fish flopping around is not fun with rig prone to tangles. Luderick mouth is small, but not that small, 6 is what I use mostly, just make sure to compact the weed around it so that it can all get bitten in one go.

[sashkello]

2 hours ago, faker said:

Any recommended tide?

I fish normally at cobblers. Have not fished georges head for them

At Spit bridge, the current is very strong. I tried for luderick at exactly that spot and it's honestly quite annoying - your float gets swept away very quickly and gets snagged on shallower rocks if you aren't mindful. The depth is good though at any tide. I'd try around high tide when the water isn't running that much. Also burley is useless when it gets swept away in seconds, so keep that in mind.

Lots of leatherjackets there, so careful if you're not using weed - they will bite off your hook clean, whether with prawn or bread!

Love Cobblers - my favourite luderick spot so far

[sashkello]

2 hours ago, faker said:

Any chance dark green stuff that is like strings of cabbage weed here?

I'm not a specialist, and haven't tried anything but cabbage and string weed in their most typical form, but it doesn't look like string weed to me. String weed looks like clamped wet hair stuck together. Yours is kinda curly, maybe luderick eats that thing, but I've no idea.

Cabbage is completely different - it's more like small lettuce leaves. There is nothing else like it, so not easy to make a mistake.

TBH, cabbage stays on hook better and I had more success with it so far. Easier to find, easier to use, fish loves it...