bisso

harold, i appreciate your input into this thread. i posted my thoughts and experiences for the benefit of others and to see also what alternatives other members could both address and come up with. it is a pleasure to see all of you chipping in with both advice and support throughout the entire ordeal. many thanks to all. i would like to add that i had a sticker that was to be attached near the steering wheel which stated, and i quote directly from that sticker......."if the warning buzzer sounds, look at the tachometer. if RPM drops, cooling water pressure is low. move slowly to a safe spot and stop. tilt up engine and check that no debris is clogging the water strainer in gearcase." ........ and "WARNING- if the buzzer sounds frequently after you restart the engine, take it to your nearest dealer for inspection" quote/unquote... thats exactly what happened, however i didnt get any further warning buzzers after restarting the engine......... and then!!!!!!!!!! what else can i do? did i not carry out in accordance with what is printed in plain english on a supplied item by the manufacturer and/or importer? i am completely lost... damned if you do, damned if you dont....

firstly, i concur and completely sympathise with you. i own one also, as i iterated in my post prior, i too feel and bear the brunt of what has occurred. is that my fault? i didnt ask for it and whilst i dont have any major qualms with the manufactor itself, the importer and the handling of the entire issue, i my opinion, leaves a lot to be desired. if the matter was, again, in my opinion, handled in a more thorough and professional manner, then i wouldnt have any hesitation in recommending tohatsu to everyone of you. unfortunately, for the sake of saving a few quid, the importer chose the other option, which i assume will relate to further negative repercussions down the track. sorry, but customer service isnt rated very high on their list..... glad you have reliable ones and am honestly happy for you. if i had of known that the one i got was as weak as the day is long i wouldnt have bothered and stuck with my old johnson's. i am not bagging them in any way, remember that my resale is also up shit!!!. i hope the rebuilt motor i get back last 30 yrs as they should with TLC. however, in light of my situation, understandably, i would neither recommend tohatsu to others, nor purchase one myself ever again.......... as my mate put it who was with me at the time of the incident, "i have never seen a motor so weak"... that thought carries with me still today... i hope tohatsu can reaffirm itself in the market place and a good resale would benefit all of us owners. i also hope you dont have to go down the same path that i did, as you would no doubt understand where i am coming from.... best of luck for trouble free motoring.....

i agree, it would be interesting to see how long peoples memories stick...... a new product means a new day and the past fades away..... not for mine though. scar tissue............

thanks mate, i hope that happens in the future for tohatsu too!!! cheers

the only thing i could add to this is, pity to us poor buggers who own tohatsu engines. no doubt their resale value is crap and its would be a better option to hold onto them until they die. unless you can get a decent trade in on some other brand.... if you really want to vent your disapproval with tohatsu, send an email to their head factory in japan. tell them that you wouldnt buy their engines due to the poor support and assistance from their australian distributor. best way is to go straight to the top... no point telling the aust. mob, as you know they would rather fight you than help... tell japan what you think of the service in australia... the may just put some heat on the aust distributor, which is beneficial to us all in the long term. sets a precident for all other manufacturers.. you all have my blessing to do so, as i have already done so, but you know the saying about many voices... thanks for all your posts and replies, will keep you all updated of future news and events.. cheers

exactly right!!!!! but what does that mean? apparently, the damage was already done and as the motor was taken to dealer the day after, no seizure would be identifiable. if another week had gone by then apparently it would have seized... for the record, the sticker i got with the motor states that if the buzzer goes off, move the boat to a safe spot and turn it off. this contradicts what i was told at the tribunal... technicality once again.. where does it end. it seems that onus is on the owner no matter what you are given. all care taken but no responsibility. just a damn shame... it still sucks big ones though... hope no one else has the same dramas and can learn from my misfortune... buyers beware i say. regards bisso

i dont even wanto think about that at this stage.... the thing that shits me the most is that my little kids havent been able to go out on the boat since the end of FEBRUARY!!!!!!!! that is crap............ money isnt everything, piece of mind is!!!!!!!!!!

thats not really a valid point as the dealer i bought the motor from was all, you should do this and that until it went to a tribunal, where he then sat on his hands and said squat... fat lot of good that was. i think i know what TOHATSU means. Think Otherwise Help Anyone To Sell Us.. just my five cents worth. any other ideas???? fair dinkum, if there are other TOHATSU dealers out there that read this post, pray you dont have to deal with your importer. i reiterate, the warranty isnt worth the paper its printed on, and finally, if you buy a motor without a warranty, it should be covered under consumer law anyhow.... food for thought. a warranty is only something that makes a buyer satisfied that they have some sort of protection... bit like holding a hanky in front of a porsche and saying "drive at me" ..... enough said!

very interesting point you have raised there!!!!! in summation, the deal agreed to at the hearing was, i pay for the cost of the replacement parts to rebuild the engine, being $1262.03 (plus incidentals). i pay the dealer a fee of $1000 for labour (plus incidentals) as well as a fee of $203.50 which was for pressure testing the block to check for any porosities. i cant see how the last item is valid considering the block is tested cold and as we all know, cold contracts....... anyhow the net result is me paying $2465.53 (plus incidentals) to get my engine back in one working piece. on top of that, the dealer supplies a mere three month warranty on the rebuild and lakeside marines warranty doesnt alter, i.e there is no new warranty, only a continuity on the rest of the engine.. perhaps it would have been better for me to pay an additional $800 and get a new motor at wholesale price and they could have the other one to fix up and sell.... they werent interested.. wonder why!!!!!!!!!!! if anyone is interested, i would be glad to discuss the ins and outs of the entire event (5 months+) however i wouldnt burden you all by posting the details here as some of you may not be interested... i do pity the current owners of tohatsu outboards and i iterate that i in now way, am attempting to undermine their value in any way, shape or form. i sincerely hope to those owners that you dont come across a major drama with your motors and you all have many years trouble free as i too desired.. i fear however, that resale values arent high on the list of this particular brand of outboard and i guess i will have to make do with the patched up one i get back. i mean, who would want to buy one secondhand? p.m me if you wish to discuss further, in my final post i will name the dealer whom i bought it from for all of you to steer clear of.....

I was informed of the price by a reliable source within the industry and wish to keep them anon.... And no that wasnt a typo!! that was the words from the technical and training officer for the importer. they are the words that came from his mouth and thats a "quote/unquote". if you are stunned by that, imagine my surprise when i was informed of that at the time. i was completely shocked. why bother having an overheat alarm if it is only in place to inform you that you have cooked your engine and best of all........... completely voided your warranty.... thanks very much and have a nice day. i guess its a shame that outboard motors arent like cars, where enough people can cause a ruckous and make the industry quiver in fear of the consumer. instead we are facing a david and goliath battle..... guess i am just another poor dave..

before i dulve in the explicit details. can i ask you all, how well do you both understand and have implicit knowledge of your owners manual. i ask this as you may well be put in the same predicament as i was. the element of doubt and interpretation is mystifying in the legal world.... i recommend to all of you not to look at buying tohatsu due to their overheat warning being an alarm to let you know that the motor has in fact (i quote this from the importer) reached an overheat situation and that technically the warning horn should not be fitted to outboards as the consumer relies on it to prevent damage........... you make your mind up on that one... the last post was correct in implying that the importer, "lakeside marine" in this instance(whom are the oceanic importer etc) provide the warranty and will endeavour to strenuously deny any claim against them. (looks good for their situation and records). apparently it could be alleged that they purchase a motor, such as the one i bought for about $3200, for every twenty they sell a free motor is given to them. a minimum order could be in the range of 200 units, therefore ten(10) of these would be cream for lakeside marine.... the importer then sells the motors with the importers warranty for say 100% markup, therefore $6400, the dealer adds his $1000 min to price, to which we arrive at the price the poor consumer pays. i will continue this tommorrow due to my ire and anger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks for your support and info. i will post the details tommorrow regarding the full details of the tribunal... interesting reading for all you boaties.. cheers

Cam, i went to the CTTT tribunal. intitially i went through the concilliation process to try an negotiate with the other parties. this consisted of the dealer which i bought the motor from and the importer whom issued the warranty. an option to have a member decide an outcome was available to be the next step pending an unsuitable outcome. i was informed by the tribunal that there would be a minimum three month wait to have the matter heard before the member. on top of the 5 months i had already waited, i took the importer and the dealers crappy offer so i could at least be back on the water by october this year at the latest. for interests sake, apparently the overheat sensor fitted to tohatsu outboards is to inform you that when the buzzer sounds, your engine has overheated, and NOT a warning to let you know that the motor is at risk of overheating...... i couldnt find that term in the user manual but apparently that is what is implied!!!! Hmmm!! i guess it all comes down to an interpretation of english... sorry, japanese translated to english!! i rest my case your honour!!! that makes me even more shittier.... i had an independant inspection done on the motor by a yammy seller. he told me i would have had a brand new motor and back on the water within a week after it had originally happened.... hindsight is a wonderful thing... i really want a yamaha now..... mick, can i ask if you had the block pressure tested? i ask because i had this done to mine as i had been informed that water ahd appeared to have been entering the block over a long period of time. apparently unless the block is at operating temperature, a crack generally wont show up. i was just curious.... glad you had insurance though.... i on the other hand didnt...................

hi to all raiders, for those of you who had been interested in my post in march this year about the 5 month old 70 hp tohatsu engine i had which had seized. today i attended a tribunal hearing to have this matter resolved. i will post the full outcome in a week or so. for all persons looking at purchasing a new outboard, i recommend you ask for the warranty to be removed and get a discount off the price of the motor. the warranty isnt worth the paper its written on. secondly, ask your dealer for a FULL detailed description on all the safety systems in place on your motor as well as any options which are available. i learnt an interesting lesson about the interpretation of an owners manual today and believe me what you see printed in ink doesnt mean what you may think it to be. be very cautious about how you read the manual, ask as many questions as you can and hope that once you part with your dough, you will receive decent and quick resolution to any problems. finally ask the dealer what would happen if you had a problem with your engine. do they offer a new motor as a replacement or a quick turnaround. this may seem trivial at the time but when another 5 months has gone by without any resolve you may be wishing you were aware of this up front. i will notify further any outcome. at this stage it will cost me a heap to have motor rebuilt and another 2 months minimum without an engine. would i buy another tohatsu? dont think so!!!!!!!!!! cheers

ok progress update. porosity test revealed no leaks in the block. i had an independant inspector verify same. he came to the conclusion that he cant determine how water got into engine but noted that there were no signs of overheating and no evidence of water entry. he did note that it appeared that water has been entering for some time but could only tell me where it wasnt getting in as it was not apparent where it is infact entering. next step.... dealer is sitting on his hands, which is pissing me off somewhat. surely a reasonable person would deem that there is an evident fault or serious issue which is out of the ordinary with this motor. i cant believe that it should be considered bad luck. come on tohatsu, does this demonstrate how poor your product is or more importantly how poor your lack of service and assistance is???.... sorry guys, but for mine, scratch tohatsu off your short list and look elsewhere. the lack of both assistance and also the fact i have been without a boat for over a month while they fart arse around is nothing short of incompetent. go and buy a yamaha or something else. really pissed off with the whole thing now... email lakeside marine and state your disgust with their attitude. tell them you have heard bad stories about their treatment of existing clients and you dont wish to be treated the same. NB: these are my thoughts only... and merely a suggestion. but if you feel you are concerned then please tell them your concern about their product. it can only assist with making them alert to their consumers expectations and rightly so, proper remedial action. post again when progress occurs...... regards mick

sorry gents that i havent updated progress to date. it has been a labourious process thus far. some progress however. i got an independant inspector to assist with a tear down of the motor. i did this to cover both my arse from tohatsu and to assist with stopping further delays. i reiterate that the dealer has been fabulous and i couldnt recommend him highly enough. he has been associated with our family for over thirty years so i wouldnt have expected any less. ok progress...... inspection has revealed that water had not entered engine due to overheating. teardown of the motor revealed that the engine had been taking water internally for some time (couldnt be longer than 5 months as it was this old when it stopped). spoke to dealer today whom recommended a porosity test be done on the block to try and find a fault. tohatsu importer (lakeside marine, yes i have named them, note they are the aust distributor) have done absolutely nothing to assist... i think they are burying their head in the sand and hoping it goes away. thanks guys for nothing, i have no hesitation in recommending people to not buy your motors.... not because of issues with the motor, but more to do with the treatment i have and still am encountering with this..... hopefully i might know the test result by friday.... will keep you all posted.... thanks for all your posts.. cheers

progress update......... email i sent to japan to tohatsu must have been sent onto australian distributor. i received an email from them this afternoon telling me it isnt a warranty issue (even though they havent inspected the motor) as obvoiusly there is nothing wrong with the motor. it was interesting to note that they also told me that they will not communicate further direct (i didnt contact them!!) and that i have to go through the dealer. dealer tells me that they issued the warranty so its up to them. talk about going around in circles. oh well, off to the tribunal we go. i shall keep you all posted and provide progress accounts as it goes along. getting a bit sick of this all now. i am sure they are merely trying to wear me down though.. regards bisso

thanks for your info. i did in fact lodged a claim with the dept of fair trading a week ago. they told me i had to take the matter up with the dealer as he is the one i bought the goods from.i did that and unfortunately, he isnt the one who issues the warranty. net result was importer wouldnt budge on their claim that warranty is void. next option is off too the tribunal. i am in the process of gathering the documentation necessary to support my case including stsat declarations from the two experienced boaties that were with me at the time of the incident. i chose to contact tohatsu in japan just to see how they might respond to this as the australian importer is closing their eyes and hoping i might go away. la la la la la etc.

i thought that my best approach on this was to go straight to the top. thus today i sent an email to tohatsu in japan as i wasnt getting any response in australia. hopefully they might stand up and take notice. it was interesting to note that a few of you have subsequently decided against buying tohatsu outboards. i will keep the mentioning of this forum up my sleeve for now pending a response from tohatsu japan. all i can reiterate to you all is, buyers beware, read any warranty properly and ask plenty of questions. if anything is to be taken from this, it is a big learning experience. finally, at this point i am not resorting to bagging out tohatsu australia, i just want them to get off their rich bums... i shall keep you all posted in the near future. thanks for all your assistance and posts, much appreciated. cheers an interesting thought, i will keep that under my hat for now pending the outcome from tohatsu japan. my dispute, for the record is with the importer and not the dealer.the importer's claim its not covered under warranty and arent prepared to even look at it. the dealer has infact been very helpful throughout and i have no problems with their level of service. i wont divulge the importer's name but they are on the central coast and they are the sole australian importers. (shouldnt be hard to find out!!) regards

thanks for your post. i believe that this isnt a matter for insurance as i feel the motor has a fault and even a rebuild would not guarantee solving the issue. as regards your first statement, i did take it back to the dealer the following day for inspection and testing. what he did or didnt do is not for me to decifer as i am not a mechanic. my question is in fact, that if the motor has a fault, how do you define whether it is so or not. the problem i am having is get a straight answer from anyone. all dealers seem to be ducking and weaving off the matter. my only advice would be to check your manual thoroughly and make sure your motor has all the items specified in it. my manual stated that my motor has a water pressure sensor, i was told be dealer that it wasnt installed on my motor and tohatsu importers will neither confirm nor deny its existance. i am completely frustrated by tohatsu's lack of initiative on this matter. it now seems that no solution is forthcoming from them and it will now go to tribunal for a solution. so much for good will and customer satisfaction. more like take the money and run. good luck with your motor, hope you dont encounter the same problem i have.

hi there all raiders, i have to say that it hasnt been the best of weeks for me. my 5 month old tohatsu 70hp has been diagnosed as seized. i caught some weed two weeks ago which sent of the buzzer in the control box. the motor was immediately stopped and lifted to clear the weed. i put it back in the water, restarted it and allowed it to idle. it was pumping water again so i continued to idle it for a minute or so too cool down. headed back to the boat ramp with no further alarms going off. rang the dealer when i got home and he told me no damage could have occurred. as a precaution i took the boat to him for inspection which he told me all was ok (did compression test, all cylinders ok) and i took the boat home. on last sunday morning i took my two young boys out with me, put the boat in at the ramp, turned the key and nothing. motor was locked.... took boat home, removed plugs, middle plug was corroded. took boat to dealer.. got a call on monday to say engine seized due to overheating and not covered by warranty. told it would cost $4000 to repair (complete rebuild, as water got into block and seized at crank). i cant believe that a brand new motor could suffer damage in some two seconds. i thought the warning buzzers and other safety systems in place were there to prevent this from occuring. i wish to note that the dealer advice was from the tohatsu importer and not from the dealer. i was curious as to what all you raiders think of this situation and whether you think (as i do) that there is either a fault with the motor or secondly this is just pure bad luck on my behalf and i have to cop it. i have had outboards for many years and i only bought a new motor because i take my kids out and i want absolute reliability. thanks for your time and i would appreciate your input as to what action you think i should take on this matter. sincerely bisso

hi there, best advice i could offer you is to contact haines direct. i did this for my boat and they were very helpful. i think you can do a websearch and look for the queensland branch. apparently this is the main office.

i am a bit lost myself. whom told you that they were unstable???? the best thing to do is put the boat in the water and try it out. any reasonable seller/dealer would let you do this before you part with your hard earned. see which boat YOU feel fits to your needs the best. thats the best advice i could offer to you. at the end of the day, boating has a lot to do with personal opinions and sometimes anothers ideal boat or opinion might not suit or agree with anothers. (bit like cars really). find the one that suits you the best. good luck with it. cheers

from what i understand, mercury basically copy from tohatsu (which are great motors). yamaha are a very popular brand but i think you pay for that privelige. 4 strokes are quieter, more efficient but also a bloody lot heavier. i still prefer two strokes for their holeshot performance. the direct injection 2 strokes are worth looking at.... best advice is ask around, talk to a few boaties and then make up your own mind. you will after all end up with it...

just to throw a twist to the story. what if your trailer was still there (after the clamp it and hitch pin lock did their job) but your winch, skids,rollers etc were taken. how do you get the boat out of the water and onto the trailer??? just a thought. i had this happen to me. bare steel shell left at the ramp(wheels still on though)!!!! any ideas??