slinkymalinky
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Posts posted by slinkymalinky
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Here's a great link to a Youtube video of Shimano reel maintenance by Shimano techs. This is the first of a series of 7 or 8 videos. They're well worth a look.
http://www.youtube.com/user/FishWithShimano?feature=pyv&ad=5205256773&kw=fishing#p/u/6/ZLpO74dWuoE
Cheers, Slinky
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reproduced with the kind permission of Alan Tani
to look at the schematic for this reel....
http://mikesreelrepair.com/schematics/schematic.php?url=Shimano/Shimano%20ti%2016.pdf
..... you'd think that some engineer somewhere had waaayyyy too much time on his hands. lots of little pieces! but it's not impossible either.
now, before we jump into this reel, let's talk about it first. the drags are greased carbon fiber. i consider them to be the industry standard. drag failures for greased carbon fiber are virtually unheard of. what about the bearings? shimano arb bearings are already open. with no shields to hold water in, the risk of bearing failure should be lower. shimano also has their own special grease bearings which is pretty good stuff. give the spool a spin. if the freespool is ok for the type of fishing you do, let's leave the bearings alone. how about drag range? i like a 30% drag setting. let's say you have 65 pound spectra and a 50 pound topshot. if this reel can give you 15 pounds of drag, you should be all set. straight out of the box, there is very little danger of reel failure because of salt water intrusion and subsequent corrosion. if the reel delivers, let's leave it be. or you could be like me and just be curious....
want to open it up and take a peek inside? ok, let's start by greasing all the right side plate screws (key #601). you'll need a metric torx bit.
back out the stand screws (key #528), one at a time, shoot in a bead of grease and re-install the screws.
grease the rod clamp bolts (key #646 or 649)
back out the left side plate screws (key #601 and 645).
remove the left side plate assembly (key #644) and set it aside.
the spool comes out cleanly and in one piece.
note the orientation of the anti-reverse ratchet (key #529). it's easy to put on backwards.
remove the cooling shield screws and washers (key #641 and 640).
set the cooling shield (key #639) and pressure plate (
(key #637) aside. remove the drag pressure plate screws (key #636). remove the drag plate (key #635). see the little springs?
pull the out the drag plate springs (key #630) ....
and set them aside, some place nice and safe.
the pinion shaft (key #625) has two cross pins (key #626) and a pressure plate spring (key #634).
pull the pins and spring, then the drag washer assembly, and set them aside.
here's the pinion shaft (key #625) with bearing, bellevilles and thrust washers in order. the white grease is shimano's bearing grease. this product is much lighter than the drag grease and works very well. cleaning out the bearings will improve freespool. if 30 seconds of freespool is not needed for your application, leave the grease in the bearings.
i opted to clean out the bearings.
i removed a thrust washer (key #42A), added two belleville pre-load springs (key #40A) and changed the stack of bellevilles from the stock configuration of "(())" to "((()))".
to get the spacing right, i ended up moving that thrust washer to the left side of the spool....
reinstall the cross pin.
now let's look at the drag washer.
add a thick coat of shimano drag grease.
wipe off all the excess.
until it looks dry.
re-install the drag washer assembly.
re-install the pressure plate spring and cross pin.
re-install the drag plate springs (key #630). a bead of grease is very helpful here.
reinstall the drag plate (key #635) and screws (key #636).
regrease and clean the second drag washer assembly.
drop the drag washer assembly back onto the spool shaft.
check out the rubber gasket. this is similar to the system found in shimano tld series. when the lever is forward and the drag washer is engaged, the gasket locks up against the spool cap and the drag chamber is sealed to prevent water intrusion. like the tld series, you rinse off your tiagras while they are in gear.
grease the screw holes.
install the cooling shield (key #639).
re-install the anti-reverse ratchet (key #529). the bearing spacer (key #642) and bearing thrust washer (key #567) are hidden under the grease.
more screw holes to grease.
re-install the side plate screws. the long one goes in at the 12 o'clock position.
done! here are the specs. not so bad for a non-blue printed reel!
see, that wasn't to bad!
Alan Tani
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Reproduced with the kind permission of Alan Tani
here is a link to the schematics for the single speed tld 20 and 25 reels.....
and here are the reels. except for the width of the spool, frame and spool shaft, the reels are identical. these reels were shipped in from hawaii. the freespool was very poor, but these reels were still in good enough shape to kill fish.
by now, you all know the drill. pull the preprogram dial (key #9), the dial spring (key #82), the lever shaft body and "O" seal (key# 10 and 11), and the drag control lever (key #83).
remove the lever quadrant (key #192) and screws (key #19, 21 and 86).
remove the seven side plate bolts (key #24).
separate out the frame, spool and right side plate assemblies.
let's start with the frame first. grease up the click spring (key #101) and click pawl (key #231).
these old wing nut clamps are great for gouging up the gelcoat of a boat. let's get rid of them.
the graphite clamps are much better. ok, that's it for the frame.
now for the spool. once again, the cooling shield (key #89) was loose. note the rubber gasket that seals up the drag chamber when the reel is in gear. remember to keep this and all of the shimano graphite lever drag reels in gear when they will be exposed to water.
remove the drag plate assembly (key #196, 60, 91 and 31) and set it aside with the cooling shield.
now for the left side of the spool. remove cross pin B (key #50).
remove the click gear (key #98) and screws (key #99).
pull the main shaft (key #173), keeping the bellevilles, thrust washers and bearings in order.
these bearing are gummed up, but not rusted. with a small pen knife, pry out the shields and let's clean them out with carb cleaner and compressed air, then lube them with corrosion x. by cleaning the bearings rather than replacing them, we'll save someone $40-50!
now we're going to change the configuration of the bellevilles (pre-load springs). the original orientation of the pre-load washer A (key #72) and the pre-load spring B's (key #96) is "|()()" and the thickness is 4.61 mm.
we're going to toss the flat washer and add a fifth pre-load spring B. the new configuration will be "(()))" and the thickness is 4.52 mm.
back into the spool it goes.
grease the screw holes.
install the click gear (key #98), screws (key #99) and cross pin B (key #50).
now for the right side of the spool. the replacement drag washer is the drag washer used in the two speed shimano tld 20/30 II, part #TT-0246. the tabs were cut off with wire cutters. then i found an impact socked that fit the center hole just perfectly. i carefully held the drag washer against a grinder so that it would spin, and ground the drag washer down to the exact same size as the stock washer. don't worry about not having the same tabs as the stock washer. the tabs are not needed.
apply a thin coat of shimano drag grease to the spool.
apply a thin coat of grease to both sides of the drag washer and press it into place.
rub off all the excess grease.
install the bearings (key #216) and pressure release spring (key #202).
you will notice a small amount of play in the drag plate assembly. that play needs to be eliminated. pop out the seal lock (key #31).
from left to right, you see the seal lock (key #31), the drag plate (key #91), pre-load spring A (key #60) and the pinion guard (key #196). what i am holding is a stainless steel washer that my machine shop buddy punched out for me. this replaces the 4 layers of masking tape that you saw in the tld 20/30 two speed upgrade post.
it there is A LOT of play in the drag plate assembly, install pre-load spring A in the "down" position to take up more play. normally you can install pre-load spring "up" position.
install the drag plate assembly and cooling shield (key #89).
use the wrench (key #230) to tighten down the spooling shield.
install the spool assembly back into the frame. install the pinion gear (key #168).
ok, we're done with the frame and spool. now we're on to the right side plate. first, we need to get to the right main side plate bearing (key #215). a "coffee grinder" sensation when you turn the handle says this bearing is shot. it is always the first one to go out.
remove the handle screw (key #75), the handle nut (key #76), the handle (key #208), gear shaft shield (key #78), gear shaft thrust washer (key #79) and the main gear (key #166). the dog (key #26) will fall out.
the original bearing was totally rusted, so the shields were removed from a new bearing, and the bearing was packed with grease.
replace dog (key #26) and the main gear (key #166).
these reels definitely need a handle upgrade. tiburon makes a nice one. http://www.tiburonengineering.com/html/t-bar_handles.html reel colors makes one as well, http://www.reelcolors.com/reelcolors_004.htm this is the one that is made for me.
install the gear shaft thrust washer (key #79), the gear shaft shield (key #78), the new handle, the handle nut (key #76) and the handle nut screw (key #75).
install the right side plate assembly and screws (key #24).
install the lever quadrant (key #192) and screws (key #21, 19 and 86).
just a side note for a common problem. one of the screw holes for the lever quadrant was stripped out. a small copper strip was cut to fit the hole. after running the screw back in, the copper strip held the screw just fine.
install the drag control lever (key #83) and push it down into the "free" position.
align the lever shaft body (key #11) so that it "nests" with the drag control lever and drop it in. add a small amount of grease, then the dial spring (key #82) and the pre-program dial (key #9).
check the freespool.
check the maximum drag at strike before losing free spool. you should be able to get at least 20 pound. this particular reel was able to get 26 pound of drag at strike before freespool was lost. when backed off to 12 pound of drag at strike, the freespool time was 60 seconds.
you can clearly see the difference in size between the stock handle and the larger aftermarket handle.
just a side note. the tld 20 has nearly the same line capacity as the penn senator 113HL. the tld 25 is nearly the same as the penn senator 113HLW. for the tld 20 and 25, this means lots of line capacity, and now plenty of drag. the problem is the graphite frame. i am not aware of a single case of frame failure with these single speed tld's. i am certain that the tld 20/25 frame can easily handle 15 pounds of drag at strike with no risk of frame failure. it may be able to handle up to 18 pounds of drag at strike. please do not exceed 18 pounds.
so what this boils down to is straight 40-50 pound mono on a tld 20 with a 30% drag setting, and straight 50-60 pound mono on a tld 25 and the same 30% drag setting. you see that 18 pound of drag at strike is the heaviest setting that i would ever recommend. i believe the 18 pound strike setting for either reel is safe because i am aware of no cases of frame failure. if anyone out there knows differently, please let me know. i have no problem adjusting these numbers down.
Alan Tani
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Awwww shucks! Aren't they just the cutest wittle baby-wabies. Hope you handed out the cigars, Ray. Great photos as always mate... hope the conditions calm down for you soon.
Cheers, Slinky
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A few Raiders have been asking about how, why and when to change trebles on lures so I hope this is of interest.
The reasons you might consider changing the trebles on a lure include:
- to replace a damaged, broken, blunt or corroded hook
- to change the trebles to ones more suitable for your fishing... sometimes you might want stronger hooks, finer hooks or just hooks that are better quality
- to adjust the action and buoyancy of a lure... a floating lure can sometimes be made into a suspending or even sinking lure with heavier hooks or vice versa. And hook size and weight can change the way a lure swims.
When to change hooks is easy... Whenever you don't think the hooks on a lure are the right ones for the job you want it to do. Blunt hooks are never ok so if you can't sharpen them, change them.
The how is pretty easy too. Here's a quick step-by-step. Be really careful doing this Raiders... hooks can end up in flesh very easily if you don't use caution throughout this task... so if you're not confident, don't attempt it.
This is a Halco Scorpion that's going into my Mangrove Jack fishing box.
While the fine wire Mustad Triple Grip trebles it came with are good hooks for flatties and so on, they'll straighten if a decent Jack so much as breathes on them. Time to swap.
You'll need a couple of things to swap trebles. First, get yourself a pair of split ring pliers (they sometimes come in different sizes to suit light, medium or heavy duty rings). These pliers have a nifty 'beak' that makes opening rings a doddle and saves broken nails or worse.
You'll need some new trebles of course. They come in different sizes and also in different 'strengths'... 2X hooks are heavier wire than standard, 3X are heavier than 2X, etc.
You might also need to change split rings if the ones on your lure aren't up to the job. These are also available in a range of sizes and light or heavier wire.
For my Scorpion, I chose to use VMC 3x strong chemically sharpened trebles (the hook on the right in shot is a 6X for comparison... you can see the heavier wire). First thing to do is pick the right size. If you use hooks that are too small, you might reduce the effectiveness of the lure by reducing the 'hook coverage' (fish are more likely to miss the hooks). If they're too big, the 2 or more hooks might be able to cross over and tangle during a cast... In this case the #4 trebles in the middle were the right choice
Use your split ring pliers to open the rings on the lure. And while the ring is open, slip the eye of the hook into the gap... it may take a little working.
Now, with your pliers or by hand, work the hook around the split ring until it comes off... just like untangling paper-clips. Now your lure is ready for new hooks.
Lets start with the belly hook. It's important to check the orientation of the hook eye relative to the points. On most trebles, the eye is offset so that you can sit it on a ring so that the lure nestles in between 2 points. Do it the wrong way and a point will be bouncing off the lure like would be the case if I fitted it like this.
Rotate the hook until you can see that when attached to the eye it will sit like this.
Now, remembering the orientation of the hook, use your pliers to open the ring and slip the hook on, working it around as before but in the other direction.
I don't really worry about the orientation of tail hooks but once both hooks are on this lure it's almost finished.
Just a last quick check to make sure the hooks can't cross over and tangle.
And this lure's ready to take Jack fishing. I think the new hooks will last longer than the paintwork!!
Cheers, Slinky
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And don't just think its about teaching either... its a great way to make new fishing buddies.
Cheers, Slinky
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Atomic Prongs in 2" and 3"... never leave home without them.
Cheers, Slinky
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Wow.. fantastic report
It sounds like you had a fantastic time. You're photos are incredible as always. That Watson's Leaping Bonito is beeeewdifuuuul
I've never seen one in the flesh. Their colour is amazing.You're having a blinder of a year on surface lures. I think instead of a challenge, I might need a coaching clinic from you instead.
Congratulations again on the 4000th post. Hope we get to fish together again sometime this year.
Cheers, Slinky
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Awesome contribution, Roberta. I love reading your posts... your reports are always great and make me wish I was out on the water. I still think you're lucky to have all your anatomy in one piece the way your lay big flatties in your lap to take photos
Congratulations on the 4000... may there be many more to come
:thumbup: Cheers, Slinky
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They look great, Jani. What do you and Saija use to get the colours... they're fantastic.
It looks like a great thing to do while the snow and cold and dark keeps you inside.
Cheers, Slinky
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I haven't really got any idea having never tackled anything like that but maybe using a Dremel rotary tool with a cutting wheel would give you a lot more control???
Cheers, Slinky
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Good regime, Kiwi.
Croyden, I'm pretty sure there would be plenty of Raiders interested in some game-reel rebuild tutorials so I'll organise to publish a couple from Alan Tani on here soon.
Cheers, Slinky
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good to know they work well on Whiting too. I've been a convert for most of my fishing for a couple of years and wouldn't go back but they do take some getting used to.
Cheers, Slinky
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Hi Raiders, wonder if someone out there could give me a distance from the coastline for East Reef just out from Broken Bay.
Is it within the non epirb boundaries (2nm) or (3.7k's).
Hope someone can give an accurate answer..
G'day Ray,
Depends how they measure it but the top of East Reef is 0.3nm from the nearest point of land which is Bouddi Point. It's 2.7nm from Box Head.
Cheers, Slinky
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G'day Croyden,
I don't know Tiagras well but from what I've seen in some of Alan Tani's rebuilds, Tiagras have a rubber gasket that seals the drag chamber when the reel is in gear so they should be rinsed with the drag on.
Tiagra 16 showing the rubber gasket seal that engages when the reel is in gear (pic from a Tiagra 16 thanks to Alan Tani)...
Some reels, like this pic of a Penn 975LD, have a situation where, when the drag is pushed forward, a gap is created between the drag pressure plate and drag cover... these reels should be rinsed in freespool
Penn 975LD showing the gap created between the drag plate and cover when drag is engaged (thanks again to Alan for the pic)...
Cheers, Slinky
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Found this on e-bay check this reel out when i put the link up something happens it dont paste correctly so this is what it says check it out could it be a good reel or crap.... PELAGIC HYPAFIN 9000 SRX-2 GAME SPINNING FISHING REEL
2010 15-24KG DRAG,ALLOY BODY,BRASS GEARS,STAINLESS DRAG .NEW PELAGIC EXTREME HYPAFIN SRX 9000 PRO EXTREME SERIES (RED) Spinning Fishing Reel - Perfect for GT'S, KINGFISH and TUNA
2010 15-24KG DRAG,ALLOY BODY,BRASS GEARS,STAINLESS DRAG
..
Hi Fishergirl,
That's because e-bay links are against site rules so will be filtered.
Please all members, keep those site rules in mind... some are there to protect our sponsors without whom Fishraider wouldn't exist.
Cheers, Slinky
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Don't panic, Steze.
This is a little
so we could continue this thread in the maintenance forum if you like. If your reel is still working fine its not stuffed but you probably should do something about it so it stays that way.Send me a PM if you want to open a thread in maintenance so we can let myocard have his Rovex thread back
Cheers, Slinky
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Finally some chompers worthy of this thread. This is why Jack fishing is a '1 tail per hit' proposition
Cheers, Slinky
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Hey Jono,
For someone who wants a robust reel with a good drag and unbreakable guts... and who wants it to be a little forgiving of less than perfect maintenance, you can't go past a Penn Spinfisher. Probably the 650ssm is the closest in size.
Baitrunner systems sound great and lots of people love them. I had 3 and the number of times I had a practical reason for using the baitrunner feature I could count on 1 hand. While I don't know much about the new 'D' series, the originals are great, tough, dependable reels (although they can do with a drag upgrade IMHO).
The killer based on what you've said is that Baitrunners are relatively complicated and don't like not being looked after. The Penn on the other hand is, while it can be considered 'old tech', simple, reliable and dependable. Very easy to service yourself if anything should go wrong. A Spinfisher is also about 1/2 the price of a Baitrunner D
That said, any reel will last a whole lot longer and work a whole lot better for some basic maintenance.
Cheers, Slinky
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G'day Monch,
Don't know much about the rod but you can't go wrong with Stradics. Great reels
Hope to see some good fish in some reports taken on your new toys.
Cheers, Slinky
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Does hosing the reel wreck it? just wondering because i tend to soak it in a bucket of water after i come back from the rocks because it gets soaked in saltwater
Not good Steze... sorry to be the bearer of bad news but soaking a reel in a bucket won't remove salt from inside your reel, just flood everything with water. The water in your reel will cause corrosion, the lubricants will emulsify, and your drag will probably fail you when you need it.
Any reel that has been completely dunked in salt water needs to be stripped down, completely cleaned and re-lubed. If your reels are just being splashed with water, they can be cleaned when you get home by either rinsing them under gently running fresh water (do the drag up first in a spin reel and most... but not all... overheads), or by wiping them down with a damp cloth. The aim is to wash the salt and dirt off the outside while NOT getting water inside the reel or drag system.
The possible exception to all this is Alvey reels.
If you've been soaking spin reels for a while, I'm surprised you haven't noticed any performance issues. How smooth is your drag?
Cheers, Slinky
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Gday nosliw,
I'm assuming you mean the whole handle and not just the handle knob. It's most likely to be the bearings. Have you ever dunked the reel? How do you clean it after fishing trips?
If it is the handle knob you're talking about then it's still likely to be a problem with corrosion that needs sorting out and yes, Shimano do supply parts for their reels.
Cheers, Slinky
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You may have seen my Daiwa Sol 2000 post...
After getting my Sol back from the guy that was supposed to fix it after my wife sent it swimming, I was very frustrated by the fact it wasn't quite 100% right. Why oh why didn't I strip it down myself (I got stuck, that's why!!)
Anyway, I've been battling gear noise since getting it back. I must have stripped and rebuilt the reel 30 times replacing bearings and making little adjustments. Finally I've tracked the problem. Among other screw ups from 'the guy' (note to self... NEVER AGAIN!) a couple of bearing washers went missing. These little washers minutely adjust the position of the left side bearing and how it engages the drive gear.
After playing with lots of washers (not having any of the originals) I stripped down my other 2000 Sol and found that there's not 1 washer but 4... each only about 0.06mm thick... yep, 6/100ths of a mm. Total thickness of the set was 0.25mm. The washer that I'd settled on in the 'damaged' reel when measured was 0.20mm and while a lot better, there was still noticeable gear vibration.
So playing around with some brass sheet I made a made a washer each from 0.03mm and 0.06mm brass. The .03mm washer went in too, to make a total stack of 0.23mm... better but not perfect. The .06mm washer was swapped with the 0.03 to make a total of 0.26mm... much better but not quite perfect. At 0.30mm (with other washer combos) the rattle was back big time. So I've stopped frigging around and have ordered a handful of the original washers.
'So what?' you might ask. Think about it... this means that .03mm made all the difference between the reel working nearly perfectly and being obviously imperfect (to me at least). That's a tiny difference.
If you pull a reel apart make TOTALLY sure you put back everything exactly where you found it... I've got a rattle I've created in one of Jewhunter's reels I need to sort out after solving some other problems The more I love these high-tech modern reels, the more I hate them.
There's a lot to be said for Penn Spinfishers and Abu C-series baitcasters.Mind you, next time you see me on the water I'll more than likely have a Stradic, Sol or Fireblood in my hand.
Cheers, Slinky
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G'day Shan,
Like a lot of things in fishing, there's not a right or wrong answer when comparing braid and mono. Each have advantages and disadvantages depending on what you're looking for in terms of how your line performs. The only reason most Raiders have probably switched to braid on at least some of their outfits is that for their circumstances, they've decided braid is the better choice for them.
The main benefits of braid (and fused braid) are:
- near-zero stretch which means you'll feel every twitch and bump on your line... particularly good when lure fishing or fishing in deep water.
- very thin for a given breaking strain so you can fit more on a reel, use heavier line on the reel, or (most commonly these days) use a smaller reel for the same application... braid is why people now regularly catch Yellowfin on spin rods for example. Thinner line also means you can cast a lot further.
- highly visible (depending on colour) which is great when working lures for bream and other species.
The main benefits of mono are
- it's much much cheaper... even for top quality mono.
- it's more abrasion resistant.
- you can tie rigs directly in it (although often leaders are still a good idea in mono in many circumstances)
- it's less visible to fish.
A lot of those advantages can be overcome by using leaders with braid but the cost and the abrasion resistance are important. If you don't want to spend a lot or are fishing in locations where you're likely to always be losing line, think about mono. Personally, I'd rather tie more knots and pay more for snags and fish more effectively (I do a lot of luring)... but that's a personal choice.
I'd advise borrowing an outfit or loading one spool with a top-shot of braid and going fishing with it. Only you can know whether it suits you or not and you really need to try it out before you can judge for yourself.
Cheers, Slinky
(key #637) aside. remove the drag pressure plate screws (key #636). 
I've never seen one in the flesh. Their colour is amazing.
so we could continue this thread in the maintenance forum if you like. If your reel is still working fine its not stuffed but you probably should do something about it so it stays that way.
Shimano Reel Maintenance Videos
in Tools, Tips and Techniques
Posted
yep... should show up in the side menu.
Just in case, here are the links
#1 http://www.youtube.com/user/FishWithShimano?feature=pyv&ad=5205256773&kw=fishing#p/u/6/ZLpO74dWuoE
#2 http://www.youtube.com/user/FishWithShimano?feature=pyv&ad=5205256773&kw=fishing#p/u/5/ZFxdapDGOOY
#3 http://www.youtube.com/user/FishWithShimano?feature=pyv&ad=5205256773&kw=fishing#p/u/4/18-nFrwUhQM
#4 http://www.youtube.com/user/FishWithShimano?feature=pyv&ad=5205256773&kw=fishing#p/u/3/637bBQXUSac
#5 http://www.youtube.com/user/FishWithShimano?feature=pyv&ad=5205256773&kw=fishing#p/u/2/vxzw9FXM6Tc
#6 http://www.youtube.com/user/FishWithShimano?feature=pyv&ad=5205256773&kw=fishing#p/u/1/RpqFHc63VlQ
#7 http://www.youtube.com/user/FishWithShimano?feature=pyv&ad=5205256773&kw=fishing#p/u/0/Gasucot5bGs
Cheers, Slinky