Small Boat For Sportfishing

[kenmare]

Hi guys,

I've been enviously scanning the posts for new boat ideas. Yep, it's almost time to trade-in the cheap second-hand 3.48 metre tinny on trailer for something more suitable to the job at hand.

I'll be fishing mostly sheltered estuaries, with perhaps the odd excusion out into Broken Bay on a good day.

I've recently become hopelessly addicted to SP fishing for bream, flatties and EPs, so that's the main task for the boat. But I'd also like to fly fish from it, as well as occasionally fish with bait for everything from blackfish (using green weed under a float) to jewfish (using squid and live bait).

Garage size and budget constraints mean the maximum size of the boat would be 4 metres. Most likely it would be slightly smaller than that.

I was thinking something along these lines:

# Advanced hull design "pointy punt".

# Modern two stroke -- 30 hp or smaller.

# Bow mounted, foot controlled electric motor (how much thrust?).

# Fishfinder

# Full floor with raised bow casting platform and under-floor storage.

# Pedestal seats, with mountings fore, aft and on casting flatform.

# Anchor well.

# Live bait/fish keeping tank.

# Heavy duty trailer with spare wheel to suit.

Questions:

1. Can I realistically expect to buy this outfit new for less than $10,000?

2. Does this look to be a good outfit for the type of fishing I intend to do?

3. Is there a better outfit? Perhaps conventional hull instead of pointy punt?

4. Which manufacturer provides the best factory fitted-out boat for the money?

5. Are all two strokes pretty much the same, or are one manufacturer's motors better?

6. What's the best electric motor for the job?

7. Years ago, I had a very wet, rough and unpleasant ride as a passenger in an early "explorer" when travelling through a bad chop on Broken Bay. But I've been told recent developments in hull design have made for a smoother, dryer ride. Is this true?

I'd appreciate comments or suggestions from Fish Raiders who have experience with this type of boat.

Regards,

Bob

Edited April 19, 2006 by kenmare

[jewnut]

why not consider a Polycraft 4.1.

they seem to have a loyal band of supporters (just ask Stewy ) and by all reports outperform tinnies by a long way, particularly in the ride department.

maybe contact site sponsor Yabbie Marine, i believe you may be able to get one around your budget too.

good luck mate.

[Flattieman]

why not consider a Polycraft 4.1.

they seem to have a loyal band of supporters (just ask Stewy ) and by all reports outperform tinnies by a long way, particularly in the ride department.

maybe contact site sponsor Yabbie Marine, i believe you may be able to get one around your budget too.

good luck mate.

The Yabbie Marine guys are very good and I'd also suggest (if you haven't already seen them) the Quintrex 400 Hornet Trophy. You could easily pick one up for under $10k second hand, and it perfectly fits your requirements for calm-water fishing. I've fished in both the 400 and the 435 and both are great.

Flattieman.

[Grantm]

Gday Ken,

The boat for you is a 400 Explorer Trophy. It can be optioned with everything you want and close to the money, and by close i mean it will be be around the 12 to 13 by the time you spruce it up. It measures around 5 metres in total lenght on the trailer. I doubt you will get much of a live well but a standard option is a 20ltr livie tank.

I doubt you will get all the stuff your after for 10k but your not far off. The leccie adds a about a grand and youll need a 40 to 55 pd job too. Make you life easier by ordering your boat with a leccie bracket done from factory, it only adds about 70 bucks.

Hope you find what your after

[pogo]

see if swoffa is still trying to sell his, it's a beauty and is set up just like it seems you want it, but be quick he's going OS soon.

Heres the details from another site

Quintrex 420 Explorer Trophy

Fully Set Up for Bream/Bass Tournament Fishing

2000 model Quintrex 420 Explorer Trophy

2001 model Johnson 35hp 3 cylinder outboard motor—electric start

Dunbier trailer with spare wheel

Minn Kota RT55/AP electric motor with foot control

105amp Delkor DC31 battery for Minn Kota

Raymarine L365 sounder at rear with speed and temp

Garmin Fishfinder 160 Blue sounder at bow with transducer mounted on Minn Kota

Removable plumber 90L livewell

Front and rear casting decks

Ample storage hatches

Horizontal rod storage for 5 rods

Hull repainted in 2005

Nav lights, anchor light, internal light, bilge pump, life jackets, anchor etc…

Always meticulously maintained

Washed and flushed after each trip, and serviced regularly

Asking Price is $9,200

Contact me on 0423 180 790 with any queries

Edited April 6, 2006 by pogo

[mrsswordfisherman]

I believe swoffa is already winging his way to the UK, pogo (and are you a flightie?? )

Cheers mrsswordfisherman

[kenmare]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions -- and offers to sell me boats.

My head's spinning at the moment. New boat or second hand? Ally or poly? Punt or conventional hull? Which brand of two-stroke and electric?...

But I'm determined to work through all this, and buy the best boat for the job.

So I've a few more questions:

# I'm a scrooge (tightwad), and before I buy anything, I always ask "will I get most of my money back when inevitably it's time to sell?" How well do the Polycraft boats hold their resale value? How about the various alluminium boats: Quintrex, Stessl, Stacer, Ally Craft .. hold value much the same? The different brands of 25 to 30 hp two-strokes also?

# What should I look out for when buying a trailer? Do dealers tend to skimp on trailers when selling package deals?

# The 4 hp outboard on my little dinghy is a manual start and it's a pain. Is it better to have an electric start, where you just flick a switch?

# Any traps to be aware of when buying batteries to power the boat electricals (outboard, electric motor, sounder etc)?

# What's the best system for controlling the boat using a bow mounted electric motor? I've seen people steer them by hand from the casting platform and also operate them by foot control, and I've read there are several types of foot controls. What's best.

# My dinghy's unpainted, so minor accidental collisions with launching ramps, oyster racks etc which cause scratches don't bother me, as they are hard to see. With a painted aluminium hull, however, this wouldn't be the case. And if a hull's left unpainted it's also cheaper to buy? Does the painting of an alluminium hull serve any other useful purpose, other than to make a boat look better?

Regards,

Bob

Edited April 9, 2006 by kenmare

[Flattieman]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions -- and offers to sell me boats.

My heads spinning at the moment. New boat or second hand? Ally or poly? Punt or conventional hull? Which brand of two-stroke and electric?...

But I determined to work through all this, and buy the best boat for the job.

So I've a few more questions:

# I'm a scrooge (tightwad), and before I buy anything, I always ask "will I get most of my money back when inevitably it's time to sell?" How well do the Polycraft boats hold their resale value? How about the various alluminium boats: Quintrex, Stessl, Stacer, Ally Craft .. hold value much the same? The different brands of 25 to 30 hp two-strokes also?

# What should I look out for when buying a trailer? Do dealers tend to skimp on trailers when selling package deals?

# The 4 hp outboard on my little dinghy is a manual start and it's a pain. Is it better to have an electric start, where you just flick a switch?

# Any traps to be aware of when buying batteries to power the boat electricals (outboard, electric motor, sounder etc)?

# What's the best system for controlling the boat using a bow mounted electric motor? I've seen people steer them by hand from the casting platform and also operate them by foot control, and I've read there are several types of foot controls. What's best.

# My dinghy's unpainted, so minor accidental collisions with launching ramps, oyster racks etc which cause scratches don't bother me, as they are hard to see. With a painted aluminium hull, however, this wouldn't be the case. And if a hull's left unpainted it's also cheaper to buy? Does the painting of an alluminium hull serve any other useful purpose, other than to make a boat look better?

Regards,

Bob

1. I THINK that the aluminium boats and the polys would hold value much the same. Because polys are new, though, not many have been sold yet so I've got no idea as to their resale prices. The point to consider here is that people who buy the type of boat you're looking at simply hang onto them 'cause they're so good!

2. Mercurys are good outboards. The 435 Hornet Trophy mentioned hereabouts has a 40 electric start and it's been a very good motor. Electric start is the vay to go for convenience!

3. Unpainted hulls are often considerably cheaper to buy. Paint serves very few purposes from what I've seen.

4. Can't help you about electric motors or batteries, though.

Hope this helps,

Flattieman.

[numbers]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions -- and offers to sell me boats.

My heads spinning at the moment. New boat or second hand? Ally or poly? Punt or conventional hull? Which brand of two-stroke and electric?...

But I determined to work through all this, and buy the best boat for the job.

So I've a few more questions:

# I'm a scrooge (tightwad), and before I buy anything, I always ask "will I get most of my money back when inevitably it's time to sell?" How well do the Polycraft boats hold their resale value? How about the various alluminium boats: Quintrex, Stessl, Stacer, Ally Craft .. hold value much the same? The different brands of 25 to 30 hp two-strokes also?

# My dinghy's unpainted, so minor accidental collisions with launching ramps, oyster racks etc which cause scratches don't bother me, as they are hard to see. With a painted aluminium hull, however, this wouldn't be the case. And if a hull's left unpainted it's also cheaper to buy? Does the painting of an alluminium hull serve any other useful purpose, other than to make a boat look better?

Regards,

Bob

Bob

Please note i have a Poly (so i'm a bit pro-poly).

Mate - I'm so much of a Scrooge i have it on my number plate!!!!!!

Resale on the Polys is a tricky one - not many for sale, but those that are selling are generally pretty close to purchase price (allways puzzles me how people try to sell stuff second-ghand for what they paid for them new!). If you buy a new poly you get a four year warranty (that has to say something for the manufacturer's confidence).

As far as the paint issue goes, i've seen too many beaut paint jobs destroyed, withthe poly you can smack-up just about anything & scratches don't stand out (colour goes right through the hull) & can be melted/sanded/polished out relatively easily (so i hear - have not had to try just yet!).

Cheers

Numbers

[Grantm]

The alloy vs Poly is like Holden vs Ford. Their is no real winner only personal preference.

Quintrex and Stacer seem to hold their value the best cause of the name.

Dont loose too much sleep over the motor brand wither cause everyone has an opinion of which is best. If you go new you cant go too far wrong whatever you get. You will be suprised how much electric start will add too but its a nice option. I think it adds about 500 bucks at least cause it gets an alternater too !

Painted vs un painted ? Easy. Painted hulls look better by far but dont offer any benefits apart from that. In fact corrosion gets under the paint no matter what as well as the normal scratches. Saying that ill always go painted regardless because it holds the resale better if looked after. Its not hard to look after them too just a bit of care. Actually having a painted hull forces you to look after your boat better in the long run anyway. Its easy to get lazy with an unpainted hull. Painted hull is about 400 bucks.

Quintrex and Stacer will come with a Dunbier trailer which are good. You cant go too far wrong with a trailer as long as its new. I like having alloy wheels though which Dunbier dont do on this size i dont think. Redco and Oceanic do trailers with alloys. Go a strap winch too not a steel cable but try not to wet the strap too often as it will rust the hub.

If you go electric start just get a big MARINE battery rated 500 cca or better. About 150 bucks or so. If you go manual start then go deep cycle at least 120 amp hours to run a leccie, a live well and a sounder.

Go the bow mount if you can afford it, it is such a pain trying to steer and fish with a tiller steer leccie. 55 riptide sells for 1300 bucks and i reckon you only need a 40 although it will be a fresh water version not the saltwater riptide.Thats ok though just look after it, you can add an anode if you like. It is recommended that you have a 100ao deep cycle to run.

This is the tricky part :

One battery or two ? If you go electric start you can run the leccie of the crank battery although they dont recommend it. Not sure why other than you run the risk of flattening the crank battery. If you can pull start the motor it wont matter anyway as a backup.

Alternatively you can run a battery for each. Crank and deep cycle. Boat starts to get heavy and batteries are exy when you add a charger to the bill as well. You cant charge the deep cycle of the motor either.

My advice to keep it simple and keep cost down is to go a 40 freshwater. About 900 bucks. Run it off a large marine battery and have just the one about 150 bucks. If you do manual start get a deep cycle and run everything off that. A deep cycle will cost up to 200 bucks and an auto shut off charger about 70 bucks.

If you dont go deep cycle with on a non alternator set up you will be wasting your time.

Setting up for all this is confusing for anyone so take your time and ask plenty of questions.

Good luck Ken

[kenmare]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the input, much appreciated - particularly Flattieman and Grantm.

Thanks also for your advice Stewy, but I reckon it's better to walk into boat dealership ready to buy: having thought through what you really need and are prepared to pay. Less confusing than just looking at lots of different boats -- and also avoids wasting the salesman's time (or inappropriate impulse purchases).

Went fishing on Brisbane Water in my tinny yesterday morning with a mate visiting from Sydney. We fished down from the Rip Bridge. I scored first, a 45 cm flattie on a softie; then the mate caught a 30 cm tailor on softie; after a move down to Ettalong, the mate then caught a 30 cm bream on squid, followed quickly by a 55 cm flattie also on squid (his biggest by far ever); and I rounded out the morning with a 60 cm flattie on a softie. Those squidgie grubs aren't bad are they? Both my flatties took the squidgies while I was pre-occupied with my transom-mounted electic motor when manoeuvering the tinny -- I didn't even realised they were on till I lifted the rod tip!

It's going to be difficult to let the little old tinny go -- it certainly does the job. But when we were fishing Ettalong, a fellow motored by in a late model Quintrex 385 Explorer Trophy. Now that's an attractive and nicely set-up boat. Perhaps it won't be so difficult to transfer my affections to another boat.

I measured the interior of my garage last night. It's only a little over 5 metres in length. It seem to me it's really the length of a boat's trailer that determines how long a boat will fit in a space? So, the trailer for a 3.85 metre boat is probably as long as will fit in my garage. This rules out 4 metre and longer boats (including Polys).

I'll probably go for a new, or near new, Quintrex Explorer 385, or similar boat from Stacer or Stessl -- and purchase from a local dealer, so it'll be convenient to claim repairs under warranty, and have the motor serviced.

A smaller, lighter 3.85 metre boat should also allow me to use a 20hp or 25 hp two stroke and less powerful bow mounted electric than required for a bigger, heavier boat? Multiple savings would satisfy the scrooge in me.

I'd like to ensure the new boat's set-up well though, so it's very comfortable, works well, and is a pleasure to own. I'm prepared to spend my savings (from buying a slightly smaller boat) to achieve that.

So I've a few more questions you guys might be prepared to answer:

# Trailers can also be optioned-up with galvanised springs, swing-up jockey wheel and bearing buddies. Are these worth the extra cost?

# My 4hp Mercury two-stroke petrol motor and 28lb thrust freshwater Evinrude electric, I use on my current tinny, are around 15 years old and still going strong (I always flush the petrol motor, and hose the salt off both after each use in the salt). So as you say GrantM, it's probably best not worry too much about motor brands, but to buy new and maintain well. I'll probably also go with a 40 lb thrust freshwater electric and have the bracket factory fitted, as you suggest. But is it possibly to have electric start on small 20hp to 25hp two-stroke motors, the same as most people have it on motors of 50hp and up?

# Are the Quintrex factory fitted live bait tanks big enough to hold live bream, flatties and EP for measurement in a tournament prior to release? If not, what's the minimum size of tank suitable for this purpose and best way to rig it in a small 3.85 metre bream punt?

# What should I look for in a sounder/fishfinder. What are the "must have" features and what should I be prepared to spend?

# Am I likely to need a bilge pump? Why might I need one?

# I found an article on the Web about setting-up bow mounted electric motors. The author (Bushy) says they can be cable-steered or auto pilot (?). He says cable steered is the only way to go. What's the difference between these two steering method? What do most Aussie bream boat owners use? Which is best?

Regards,

Bob

Edited April 10, 2006 by kenmare

[Flattieman]

Went fishing on Brisbane Water in my tinny yesterday morning

A late model Quintrex 385 Explorer Trophy. Now that's an attractive and nicely set-up boat. Perhaps it won't be so difficult to transfer my affections to another boat. I measured the interior of my garage last night. It's only a little over 5 metres in length.

A smaller, lighter 3.85 metre boat should also allow me to use a 20hp or 25 hp two stroke and less powerful bow mounted electric than required for a bigger, heavier boat

# But is it possibly to have electric start on small 20hp to 25hp two-stroke motors, the same as most people have it on motors of 50hp and up?

# Are the Quintrex factory fitted live bait tanks big enough to hold live bream, flatties and EP for measurement in a tournament prior to release? If not, what's the minimum size of tank suitable for this purpose and best way to rig it in a small 3.85 metre bream punt?

# What should I look for in a sounder/fishfinder. What are the "must have" features and what should I be prepared to spend?

# Am I likely to need a bilge pump? Why might I need one?

# I found an article on the Web about setting-up bow mounted electric motors. The author (Bushy) says they can be cable-steered or auto pilot (?). He says cable steered is the only way to go. What's the difference between these two steering method? What do most Aussie bream boat owners use? Which is best?

1. Sounds like a great morning on the water.

2. The 385 Explorer Trophy is a very nice boat. It seems, however, that Quintrex may not make it anymore! According to the current catalogue, they only make a 395 Explorer Trophy, which measures approximately 5m long the standard trailer with its motor down.

3. A smaller boat is cheaper in relation to motors.

4. It is possible to get 20 or 25hp electric-start motors - just ask a dealer about this option.

5. A standard Quintrex live bait tank is designed for live bait, so it could only really accommodate one bream or EP at a time. Flatties are normally too long to fit in a live bait tank. I would imagine that something around 85L or more would me more suited for the puropse of a livewell.

6. Some of the "must have" features in a sounder/fish finder, for me, are: a good backlight, greyline features, sensitivity features, scroll speed options, split screen options (if that's what you prefer) and depth alarm.

7. Bilge pumps are often located underfloor in your boat, or are used to drain livewells/live bait tanks. If located in the boat's cavity, a bilge pump will automatically activate when submerged in water. This is handy if a live bait tank drains into the boat cavity, as is common on Hornet Trophies. Bilge pumps are also present for safety reasons.

8. Autopilots are handy for setting a course or automatically adjusting to current or wind conditions. The main disadvantages are that there is often not INSTANT recognition of commands, (which can be tricky when you're trying to manoevre around some of those Brisbane Waters oyster leases) and that the autopilot models are often more expensive. Cable-steering often allows you more control over the movement of the boat, with instant response and recogniton adding to reduced price (in comparison to autopilot models) as advantages of these motors.

Hope this helps,

Flattieman.

[kenmare]

Hi Flattieman,

Picked up the latest Quintrex catalogue (March - June 2006) yesterday.

You're correct, the smallest Explorer Trophy is now the 395. I asked the salesman about the change: apparently, it's to do with the maximum motor size being increased to 30 hp (compared to 25 hp for the 385 it replaced).

I'm now wavering between the Explorer Trophy, or moving up to the 400 Hornet Trophy, or down to a base model unpainted 385 Explore (yes, the base boat is still a 385) or 400 Hornet Wide Body. Knew this would happen when I stepped into a dealership!

But on balance, I'll probably follow Grantm's advice and go for the 395 Explorer Trophy.

Both the Trophy Explorer and Trophy Hornet are packaged-up with a 30 hp 2 stroke Mariner outboard, Quintrex TQ42 trailer, safety equipment, boat and trailer registration, and each carries a 3 year warranty.

The 395 Explorer Trophy package costs $9,461 (before dealer delivery charges, marine insurance and local statutory charges (?) are added). The 400 Hornet Trophy package costs $11,208 ( or almost $1,750 more) before the add-ons, but it also includes a 20 litre plumbed live bait tank and Lowrance x52 sounder -- and you also get the V-Flared Eclipse hull.

I was able to obtain the January - February 2006 Stacer catalogue. The price of the package for the boat closest to the Trophy Explorer, the 399 Proline Angler, costs more -- $9,493 before add-ons, and it only includes a 25 hp Mariner 2 stroke. So the Quintrex is a far better buy.

Questions:

# Does anyone know how the Explorer's smoothness of ride compares to a Hornet's?

# Is it worth paying the extra for the Hornet package, or is it better to have a plumbed live bait tank and sounder added to the Explorer package?

# Do the Trophy boats, with their custom fit-outs (casting platforms, floors etc), provide much of a saving compared to buying a base model boat and paying to have these features installed after the boat's been purchased?

# The dealer said Mariner motors were made by Mercury. Are Mariner motors just "rebadged" Mercurys with a different paint job, or are they actually different motors (with different design and performance)?

I need some advice from the experienced commercial hard heads here.

# When negotiating down the the price with a dealer, is it easier to get the dealer to move the price down on discretionary accessories (such as a bow-mounted electric motor and cable control) than to persuade them to discount the price of the boat, motor, trailer package? I was thinking that the cost to the dealer of the electric motor is far less than retail, so they might be willing to foregoe some of the margin to sell the package.

# I was also thinking of asking the dealer to fit a bilge pump and add a spare trailer wheel at no extra cost, as a sweetener to clinch the deal. What are my chances, do dealers often do this?

# I'm a cash buyer. Can I expect a substantial discount if I pay cash?

Regards,

Bob

Edited April 23, 2006 by kenmare

[reel_success]

lots of questions but just one answer from me

# The dealer said Mariner motors were made by Mercury. Are Mariner motors just "rebadged" Mercurys with a different paint job, or are they actually different motors (with different design and performance)?

They are the same but they have different cowlings

[Darryl S.]

I'd be getting the 400 trophy, its ready to go with no further fitouts and as you've suggested you'd like to buy something that will hold resale value, the 400 trophy will, as your not adding further options/upgrades after purchase and depreciation will be only on original purchase price . Although if your doing a lot of towing the 13" wheel/tyre upgrade is worthwhile.

Do shop the price of the boat around though, the local dealer will still get your servicing and frankly thats what their making their cash on anyway. Warranty is through the respective manufacturers so its covered where ever you buy from. Remember too that with the Quintrex packages if you get the Mariner or Mercury boat/motor and trailer package you get a 3 year warranty on the lot. If you buy from a non mariner/mercury dealership (eg Yamaha motor) warranty will be manufacturers warranty periods only which are anything from

12 months to 2 years only.

My father in law bought a 400 trophy with a 40hp 4stroke Merc, side console and electrics and 13" trailer wheel upgrade, from memory with shopping the price around the dealers it cost him $15400 from a $16500 list price. He loves it, I'm also sure it came with bilge pump standard.

Best of luck!!

[Flattieman]

I was able to obtain the January - February 2006 Stacer catalogue. The price of the package for the boat closest to the Trophy Explorer, the 399 Proline Angler, costs more -- $9,493 before add-ons, and it only includes a 25 hp Mariner 2 stroke. So the Quintrex is a far better buy.

# Do the Trophy boats, with their custom fit-outs (casting platforms, floors etc), provide much of a saving compared to buying a base model boat and paying to have these features installed after the boat's been purchased?

# I'm a cash buyer. Can I expect a substantial discount if I pay cash?

1. "So the Quintrex is a far better buy" - good conclusion.

2. Don't customise a base model. I heard that it puts off the weight balance of the boat.

3. I think you might get a good discount if paying by cash.

Flattieman.