Disease In Freshwater Fish-burrendong?

[Mik]

Hi all

Firstly, I'm a new member, first post so I'll use this post to introduce myself to you all & give you some background (So you can all say, "Ah, I remember when I was that naive")

I live near Orange NSW, used to fish with my Dad (RIP) & uncles in places like Tilpa, Louth, Nowra & Yamba. Dad owned a small 15' runabout & I have fond memories of those days. We also were heavily into bow hunting & some rifle hunting. Its been over twenty years since I last used a rod (Or bow & rifle for that matter) until easter 2006 when I suddenly realised the old boat Dad had left me was actually something I wanted to make use of. (I'd been trying to sell it for about 18 months) Anyway, long story short, I cranked the old girl up & my wife & son took my sister-in-law & her hubby to Burrendong Dam for easter. We had a blast & ever since then I have been buying fishing tackle, dreaming of nice big Quintrex boats & generally bursting to get to some water & try my luck. My luck is not as good in real life & we haven't caught a huge amount of fish, but I love it.

Anyway, there you go, a rejuvinated enthusiasm for fishing & a realisation that boats & fishing are one heel of a great way to spend time with friends & family enjoying the great lifestyle on offer to us Aussies.

So, about the original reason for the post. During december 06 my brother in-law & I caught one very nice Golden Perch (3.2kg) and several 1 to 1.5 kg silver Perch. All of the silvers had red sores or markings on thier fins and on closer inspection you could see what looked for all the world like worms in the translucent membrane between the spines of the fins (Excuse my ignorance but when I say fins I mean the one fin on the top. Dorsal?)

Later during January I caught several more silvers & noticed the same affliction. I met & spoke to some fella who reckoned it was worms but he knew about as much as I did.

Does anyone know anymore about this?

Questions I have are;

1 - IS it common?

2- Is it threatening to the species?

3 - Does it render the fish inedible?

4 - What cases it?

5 - Should I go to a doctor? (Just kidding, but I did eat 2 of the silvers caught in January!)

Cheers fo any help here.

[Mik]

Hi again.

Sorry I realise this topic is probably of no interest to you guys on the coast but I found some info about the infliction in these fish at Burrendong today & also caught another so here's some pics. I spoke to DPI today & they were not aware of any specific problem & had no reports but the guys told me it was more than likely some type of parasitic worm. Seeing that Burrendong is at 6% at the moment (As many other empoundments are around the country very low indeed) the fish become stressed due to water temp being higher and when stressed are susseptible to attack from this kind of thing.

Anyway, DPI guys says they are still ok to eat unless they get into the actuall flesh of the fish. If they are just within the membrane of the fins all is well. However, I caught another today (42.5cm) & he had some worms inside his dorsal fin membrane as the others I mentioned did. But this one also had a visible mushy flesh texture right along the top of his back when filleted. Needless to say I have discarded the fish entireley which make me sick for the waste. If I had know this before killing the fish I probablly whould have put him back & hoped he healed over time to fight another day. Alas I am asshamed to say this fish died by my hand and went to total waste. I will not be killing any others with any sign of this affliction again & hope others don't fall into the same sorry trap I found.

I realise alot of people on this site are sport fisher-persons & generally release their fish. I do to but I also take some for the plate. Unfortunatley this time I did the wrong thing.

So, heres some pics for any interested.

Cheers, Boofhead (Living up to my name already!)

[Jewhunter]

Boofhead.

Keep the posts coming mate.

Cheers,

Grant.

[Mik]

Tryin again with smaller pic size!

Lookin' good so far, BTW that's me with the hat, not the one with bulgy eyes!

[Hooky.]

G'day Boofhead, welcome to Fishraider.

The red on those silvers looks like it is the very same "disease" that effects my local bass population in the Upper Nepean. Something that is very common but I haven't a clue at the moment what causes it although I'm sure I read something somewhere on the net about it but just can't remember.

Here's a pic of it on the tail of a bass I caught, I did have some better pics somewhere on my computer that I took which showed the sores on most parts of the bass around dorsel, anal and tail fin areas like yours but can't find them either.

Blimey, guess I really haven't helped at all.

cheers

Hooky

[johnno]

very intereting topic

Welcome boofhead

its a great first post

[Mik]

Cheers for the welcomes

Hooky, (or anyone else who might know) I don't know much about Bass, do they have similarities to perch? IE do they like the same temperatures & have similar feeding habits? Perhaps this affliction is appearing due to something they do or have in common which makes them more vunerable that other species?

We have a family friend coming to stay with us next week & their 2 young lads like to fish (Mainly the older one) anyway I was thinking of taking them out for the day & thought if we caught any others perhaps we could pass it on to someone to study / check out. Anyone know who might be interested in this? (If anyone. For all I know it may be a very insignificant issue) If all else fails I will ring DPI monday & ask if they want to check one out.

As far as I have experienced fishing in the Burrendong & Wyangla dam impounds is not very stricktly controlled. Anyone could virtually take what they like & no one would question it. Given that there are several species of native fresh water fish that are severaly under threat in this country I would have expected a little more presence from the likes of DPI etc to at least check peoples catches once in awhile (I never seen or heard of any spot checks around these impounds)

I'm sure the relevant departments are doing their level best, perhaps its a matter of funding or something I don't know

One thing I do know, about the only thing you are guaranted to find at our local areas is RUBBISH. Some people have no respect at all for anything. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that polution or degradation of the environment had at least some impact on issues like this worm infestation.

[mrmoshe]

Hi Boofhead.

We had a similar thing with another poster (jethro) who noticed growths in a flathead a while back

and had some success with contacting a fellow in the Fisheries who looks into these type of infestations.

His name is Kevin Rowling and his email address is kevin.rowling@dpi.nsw.gov.au

If you can email him and include the pictures and details of where,when and any other info on the capture, he may be able to help you.

Tell him you are from Fishraider as he knows we are on the lookout for these anomolies.

If you get any further fish, it may pay to preserve the fish and notify him ASAP.

Here is the thread on Jethro's flattie..It may be worth reading this and you will see where the search went

and the process he went through to get an answer.

http://www.fishraider.com.au/Invision/inde...=15338&st=0

Let us all know how you go.

Cheers,

Pete.

Edited January 19, 2007 by MallacootaPete

[wildfish]

g'day boof.

may not be due to polution, fish are affected eaisly by water conditions such as temp change, also with that little waer and no fresh water coming in the toxins in the water (nitrites,nitrates) from general fish living, eating shiting breathing, may be on the rise.

if your real interested in what the disease is you could try looking at disease section on a fish aquarium site!

good luck

[Mik]

MallacootaPete & wildfish

Thanks for the info, both great suggestions. I'll do some digging & see what comes up.

Thanks

[Mik]

Hi Raiders

Update on the parasite I found in some silver perch at Burrendong Dam during Jan.

I wrote to Kevin Rowling as suggested by MallacootaPete. Received this reply today.

I'll include email in its entirety

QUOTE

"Dear Mik,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding a likely disease/parasite problem in silver perch, which has been forwarded to my by Kevin Rowling.

From the pictures that you have sent, infestation with a parasite known as Lernea, or 'anchor-worm' (actually a parasitic copepod - a type of very small crustacean) is a likely possibility. Lernea have been reported from a number of freshwater native fish, and is more prevalent in the summer months, as it has a much shorter life cycle with higher temperatures. These parasites are generally found in the gills or skin (especially areas around the base of fins) where they leave a red area from where they have been attached. Such parasites are specific to fish, and should not cause any problems in humans, although it would be best (and this is generally true for all fish that are caught from the wild) to ensure that the fish is cooked thoroughly.

To confirm that these fish are infested with Lernea, would require examination, under a microscope, of smears made the gills and the skin of affected fish.

NSW DPI is happy to follow up with investigation of this problem in silver perch, but to do so requires the appropriate samples. The best samples to submit would be live fish. These should be sent to the Elizabeth Macarthur Agricultural Insitute (EMAI), and this is best done through your local fisheries office (which I have been informed would be Wellington?), who will be able to co-ordinate transport for the fish to EMAI.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of any further assistance.

Regards,

Jeffrey Go

Professional Officer, Aquatic Animal Health

NSW Department of Primary Industries

Elizabeth Macarthur Agricultural Institute (EMAI)

Woodbridge Road Menangle 2568

Postal address: PMB 8, Camden NSW 2570

Ph: 02 4640 6310 Fax 02 4640 6300

This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation."

END QUOTE

Jeff also sent this second one regarding terminal infestation.

QUOTE

"Dear Mik,

I forget to mention, in relation to your enquiry as to whether or not this is a terminal condition for the fish - if this is due to an infestation of Lernea, and the the infestation is relatively light, the fish should be able to recover provided the inciting parasite is no longer present. However, in cases where there is a heavy infestation, the ulcerated red areas are prone to secondary bacterial or fungal infection which can result in the death of the affected fish.

Regards,

Jeff"

END QUOTE

So there ya go. I will do my best to get an infected live fish across to the Wellington Branch on our next few outings & see what happens. Interesting to see what happens here.

Cheers all

BH

[mrmoshe]

That's good info Mik. So glad the fellas at Fisheries are willing to get input from rec. fishos like ourselves.

If we as Raiders ever see anomolies in fish, we should let Fisheries know of them, as it's only input like this that gets problems like this sorted out before they become outbtreaks that could affect larger areas.

Fisheries are more than willing to get involved in either explaining these diseases or, as Jefferey said, study them further if need be.

Thanks Mik for the update.

Hope all future fish you catch are disease free.

Cheers,

Pete.

[mrsswordfisherman]

Excellent outcome.

Thanks for keeping us updated

Cheers mrsswordfisherman

[Mik]

Aw shucks, I'm blushin'

Thanks folks...........no wait................its worms!

[wildfish]

funny i know how you can fix that!

[DaveD]

Well to be honest Ive never heard of burrendong and didn't take a look at this topic at first, however I was looking over it and saw it to be one of the more informative and interesting ones around. As a few of you mentioned, reporting to the fisheries can really help and that they're willing to do their bit. I remember there were some fish in the georges river a while back which had some red marks, can't remember what they looked like it was that long ago, but it wasn't just one or two of the fish either.

I say keep up the good work Boofhead, very informative stuff mate.

[Mik]

AmateurDave, thanks.

I took a young son of a friends out today with onother mate & his son, hoping to score something I could slip across to the DPI but unfortunatley all we got were Carp. 3 of 'em. Buggers are getting very big out here.

Interestingly I noticed the same infestation in the second one I caught (Others were caught by my young (9 yrs old) companion. He had a ball anyway & struggled to hold the fat sucker up for a pic. Anyway I figured I'd call the DPI to see if they might be interested in studying the carp, even though the initial enquiry was regarding Silver Perch. I couldn't raise anyone at the office & then it began to absolutley bucket down! Man we were lucky to get outta there. We had driven a fair way off main roads to a new spot I'd reconned earlier this month & it was like trying to drive across & greased pigs back on a monocycle while the is beating you with that rolling pin! (I do ALOT of 4x4 driving in my job & this was "interesting") So in the end we didn't get carpy to the mad scientists but hey at least we had fun today. Young fellas had grins like a rip in a wet paper bag.

So begrudgingly I have taken it as my solem duty to fish more for the sake of science. I just know will understand.

On a serious note though. I will certainly do my best to get something to the DPI now that I have a rpomise of a follow up. If in some small way this helps future fishing I think we all have an obligation to do what we can. I'd like to think 99% of us would.

Keep ya's posted, here's a pic of the yung-uns first Carp.

[zook2001]

Anchor worms common near Bathurst so it's not surprising to see it downstream,used to be in Pejar as well back in the old days when we had some water.

You'll find it right into the flesh of trout,natives it's usually just on the skin,a bit yucky but no problem eating the fish just cut it out if you find some near in the gut.

Regards Charlie

[Mik]

G'Day zook2001

What species besides trout have you encountered that have been infected with this?

We had only one yella belly to report but it was a clean bill of health. Not to say others aren't catching yellas with the worm (Let us know here if you have experienced this in other species, so far we have Silver Perch, Bass & today Carp & f/w trout.)

[Mik]

Hi Raiders

Well another trip to Burrendong but unfortunatley no fish (Seems my streak has run its course) but I did manage to speak to a few who were out in boats during the day & got a fair haul of Yellas between them (One guy had 14 & anothr 9. I asked them about worms & got varied responces from blank stares to "Yeah, they're in everything at the moment!"

I pointed out some worms amoung one fellas catch & he seemed oblivious to them. I think I put him off his dinner.

Got some pics of a few (Sorry not too good on the macro focus function on my camera yet) Also one guy mentioned that he had 2 small Yellas poo out tape worms on the deck of his boat immediatley after landing them. He has been fishing Burrendong for years & never seen tape worms b4. I suspect that with the water so low stock grazing on the shore are the cause but who knows. I hope this place isn't turning completly foul. From some of the responces I got today I wonder how closely people actually inspect their catches.

Anyways, Australia Day fishing for me wasn't too exciting but I'm sure some of you folks had better luck.

Happy Oz Day to ya's!

Cheers

Boofhead (Mik)

[mrmoshe]

Geez Mik..They look a bit crook don't they.

I hope as you do that it isn't getting worse. It may pay to grab one when you can now and rush it

to that laboratory near you.

Your theory of cattle grazing close to shore may have some merit too.

Hope you can raise a few sickies (and some healthy ones for the table) soon.

I'll bet that fella you met thinks twice before he eats his catch tonight.

Cheers,

Pete.

Edited January 26, 2007 by MallacootaPete

[Mik]

Pete

Soon as I get a chance to chuck another line in (Hopefully tomorrow) I will be doing my best to get one for DPI. I think my biggest problem is going to be getting it to them during office hours. I will be ringing the office b4 I catch anything so hope to know best way of getting it to them alive. I don't think they have too many people available to do this sort of thing so it could be sometime b4 I actually get a fish that has worms, at the right time for the DPI to receive it & be able to keep it alive. But rest assured I'll be doing my best as my findings today were kinda disheartening to say the least.

Getting livey to DPI is now my top priority, rather do that than just keep ignorantly fishing when there's an issue not entirely resolved (At least from my point of veiw anyway)

Perhaps some tips on keeping the fish alive during a 30 to 50 min drive to Wellington from the dam might be helpful. Any ideas folks? I only have eskys ATM.

Boofhead (Mik)

[Guest]

They will probably dissect the fish anyway Boof head so it wont matter if you take it alive or not .

Kill the fish humanely and place it on ice for the trip.

Cheers Stewy

[mrmoshe]

Pete

Soon as I get a chance to chuck another line in (Hopefully tomorrow) I will be doing my best to get one for DPI. I think my biggest problem is going to be getting it to them during office hours. I will be ringing the office b4 I catch anything so hope to know best way of getting it to them alive. I don't think they have too many people available to do this sort of thing so it could be sometime b4 I actually get a fish that has worms, at the right time for the DPI to receive it & be able to keep it alive. But rest assured I'll be doing my best as my findings today were kinda disheartening to say the least.

Getting livey to DPI is now my top priority, rather do that than just keep ignorantly fishing when there's an issue not entirely resolved (At least from my point of veiw anyway)

Perhaps some tips on keeping the fish alive during a 30 to 50 min drive to Wellington from the dam might be helpful. Any ideas folks? I only have eskys ATM.

Boofhead (Mik)

Mik, it might pay to buy one of those cheap battery operated aerators you can get for liveys and stick the tube into the esky. I think they sell for about $15. That way it has a fighting chance of surviving the trip. You can always use the aerator later for liveys.

Any other suggestions fellas?

Pete.

[Mik]

That way it has a fighting chance of surviving the trip. You can always use the aerator later for liveys.

I like the way you think Pete, the will see the sense in that ........ won't she?

LOL, prob do this anyway as I do occasionally grab some freshwater shrimp for bait & they don't last longer than a day without aeration.

Cheers.