paulg Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) I own a 1 yr old 4.5 m Brooker Front steer runabout.. beam 2 m. Last time i went out with 4 people in the boat, the boat would not get on the plane. The nose lifted and rear dug into the water.. even at full throttle. and even at different tilt settings of the outboard... I had to ask one of the pasengers in the rear to come forward and the boat instantly started planing.. Outboard is a suzuki DT 50, 50 HP ... it is the max this boat can accept. Are the outboard flaps/hydrofoils of any benefit to this situation.... ? I have heard that they may be dangerous in turning .. is this true... ? thanks Mr Rose Bay Edited February 20, 2007 by Mr Rosebay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Balance is a major factor in all small boats be it from back to front or from side to side . When the person moved all was OK then that comes down to experience & unlikely foils are required. One other aspect , where was the trim setting , for starting off & getting out of the "hole" the motor should be trimed in. Your question they may be dangerous , yes , there are stories around from those that have experienced the boat tipping when the wing type are fitted. There are other styles around that extend out the back & do a much better job Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netic Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Mate in a boat that size you are going to always have to counteract the weight with putting someone at the front, everyone at the back will always cause that, Hydrofoils may help but when you have a few people on board your gonna have to put someone at the front with or without hydrofoils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulg Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) TIlt - motor in or out did not affect anything.. Problem was that i already had 2 people in the front swivel seats. and two poeple on the rear bench seat.... Boat planed instantly when one person got off the rear bench seat and stood directly behind the two people in the swivels.... ..I heard ... making a really sharp turn before straightening up gets the boat on the plane... is this true ? Also heard the hydro foils get the boat on the plane quicker and help with fuel economy.... on the down side... they may cause the boat to tip..... I was just wandering if anyone that has used the hydrofoils can comment on their pros and cons and whether they would help my planning issue.. Boat can accomodate 5 people legally . Any info would help ..... Edited February 21, 2007 by Mr Rosebay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffy Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Mate, my Seajay 4.55 is tiller steer and had the same problem. Ended up putting the fuel tank up front and also fitted a wing to the motor. As soon as I did fitted the wing, immediate result. I can now sit 2 blokes at the stern and she still pops up onto the plane within about 2 - 3 boat lengths - and I'm only running a Honda 40, 4 people on board takes a little longer but still the same result. Get the wing but get a good one - single piece about $100 and 20 mins to fit. You won't be sorry. Also have never had a problem with boat being unstable at speed - never heard of that till now. Russ ( Tuffy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulg Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) Hi tuffy, Is it made of aluminium, or plastic... I have seen some plastic two piece ones for about $30-00.. ... from department stores.. Do these ones work or do they flex... or are they crap... thanks MR RB Edited February 22, 2007 by Mr Rosebay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Hi tuffy, I have seen some plastic two piece ones for about $30-00.. ... from department stores.. Do these ones work or do they flex... or are they crap... thanks MR RB They are crap. If you want to put something decent on then fit a Permatrim , they cost around $125 - $150 Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffy Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 MR RB, the one that I have is thermo plastic and very tough one piece foil and cost about $110. I think it's a Stingray 300 but not sure. I'll look later at home and let you know, but DO NOT repeat DO NOT buy the two piece one - they are definately crap. As soon as I fitted mine the difference was literally amazing. I've had another s/steel one on a previous boat similar size and I wasn't as impressed , the stainless one seemed to be longer and narrower whereas the current one is more like a plane wing. I'm 85 kg and it took my weight once when I fell arse over the side into water where there were nasties seen. Got out real quick and didn't care at that stage if I busted my foil in the process, but it held and didn't even flex. I'll let you know the brand later. Tuffy(Russ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Hey Mr RB, I agree with Tuffy here, yes I'm pretty sure its a Stingray 300, a moulged thermo plastic and comes in different clours to match different brands of outboards. Readily available from Bias Boating or any dealer. They are vertually unbreakable as I have also stood on mine several times and infact the kids always use it as a step. They are definately the best on the market as far as I'm concerned and I'm also pretty sure one size fits all. Cheers Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netic Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Permatrim is the only way to go....dont get any other brand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Problem was that i already had 2 people in the front swivel seats. and two poeple on the rear bench seat.... Boat planed instantly when one person got off the rear bench seat and stood directly behind the two people in the swivels.... Before rushing off to purchase a device that may or may not assist the problem let me share with all 2 experiences I have had with boats going into the "hole & bogging down" in recent months A friend in Melb kept complaining of the problem. Late last year I had the opportunity to visit & spend a few days on the water. Our first outing , throttle down slowly , into the hole & that is where it stayed regardless of throttle being pushed down , the engine rev's were not increasing or if so only very slowly . My friend turned to me & said , see what I mean. Suggested the throttle be bought back to around 4 knots then said , now give it some stick. Boat jumped up on the plane in an instant. He could not belive it I had a similiar experience with another friend a few weeks back , new boat , did not want to load the motor up so slowly increased the throttle , into the hole & it seemed like forever before the boat got up . Same suggestion , same result , up on the plane very quickly. At the risk of woffling on , getting aircraft into the sky is a similiar principle. The normal process is a small amount of rev's to get the wheels rolling then down goes the peddle. Once in the air there is a noticable reduction in the engin revs. In essence , getting a boat from start to plane is basically the same process Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoducks Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Before rushing off to purchase a device that may or may not assist the problem let me share with all 2 experiences I have had with boats going into the "hole & bogging down" in recent months A friend in Melb kept complaining of the problem. Late last year I had the opportunity to visit & spend a few days on the water. Our first outing , throttle down slowly , into the hole & that is where it stayed regardless of throttle being pushed down , the engine rev's were not increasing or if so only very slowly . My friend turned to me & said , see what I mean. Suggested the throttle be bought back to around 4 knots then said , now give it some stick. Boat jumped up on the plane in an instant. He could not belive it I had a similiar experience with another friend a few weeks back , new boat , did not want to load the motor up so slowly increased the throttle , into the hole & it seemed like forever before the boat got up . Same suggestion , same result , up on the plane very quickly. At the risk of woffling on , getting aircraft into the sky is a similiar principle. The normal process is a small amount of rev's to get the wheels rolling then down goes the peddle. Once in the air there is a noticable reduction in the engin revs. In essence , getting a boat from start to plane is basically the same process Geoff Very true Geoff, friend of mine had a small carribean with a 70hp Johnson on it. Complained that it sat on its backside all the time when he took off. Went with him to Botany did the easy does it take off then as the nose came down a tad more throttle then trim. Result no more nose in the air! Cheers Twoducks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zook2001 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 A molded plastic foil wouldn't fit on my Suzuki OB without some modification,the leg must be wider than some of the other engines, I'd do some carefull measuring before you perchasing one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulg Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Thanks for some very good opinions... From memory... I remember trying different situations when trying to get on to the plane... and i do recall cruising very slowly and giving it some stick... didnt help with abit of head wind...... What did help was doing a very sharp turn with the wind... boat got up on the plane... boat can take 5 people.... I only had 4 on board, all under 75 kgs. I will experiment further... but i am liking the idea of: getting on the plane quicker increased fuel economy and more stability. with the use of the foil... Has anyone felt the above characteristics or is it a sales gimik.?? Thanks again Mr RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiebasser Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Hi RB, I've played with a few different types of foils, so I'll chuck in my 2 bob's worth. Stingrays have a very pronounced down turn on the trailing edge. My brothers tried these on a Savage Jabiru and an Horizon 4.1 and found the down force on the nose of the boat was too much at speed. The Savage was almost undriveable. On my Hornet, I tried both SE Sport 300 and Permatrim. I left the permatrim on because I fitted a Cav Plate mounted Minn Kota to the Merc and it was easier to fit with the alloy foil. Performance was similar with neither having any detrimental effects on the Hornet. My two brothers now both have fitted SE Sports. The benefits you will see are: Quicker onto the plane, Will hold plane at lower speed and not "bury the bum" and bog down when backing off. Will help in straight line tracking. Will give the boat more longitudinal stability at rest. This is because of the force required to move the foil vertically through the water when stationary. Try pushing a 1 foot sqare piece of plywood up and down under water and you'll see why this happens. My recommendation is to fit the SE Sport. If you do find a cheaper "Stingray" brand, you may need to trim about 50mm off the trailing edge to do away with the pronounced downturn. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulg Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Thanks Longitudinal .. you mean the boat bobing up and down in a swell. ?? SE sport,, one of the well known boat sellers in blakehurst recommended that one... Thanks Mr RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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