CR@ZY OS@M@ Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 i must state that i didnt pay 26k for my engine,i paid 28k for 200hp e -tec. its not running how it should be and its not fair that i should go running around to sort out the problem. i think that they should have an e tec specialist come to my house and work out the problem and fix it, not for me to go out and buy neccessary things that it needs to sort out my problems. i personally think its not right at all esp after the amount of money i spent on purchasing the boat and motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boban Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 You are absolutely right John. If the dealer does not give you any joy, then its simple. You did not get what you paid for. In legal terms, it is not fit for its purpose. You can seek a refund in those circumstances. By all means do what you can with the dealer. Thereafter, file an application in the Consumer Claims and Tenancy Tribunal (about a $10 filing fee) and let them make the appropriate orders. You don't need a lawyer for this type of matter as it is very straight forward. Good luck Cheers Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR@ZY OS@M@ Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 who am i supposed to file the claim for the dealer or the manufacturer that makes e tec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boban Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 who am i supposed to file the claim for the dealer or the manufacturer that makes e tec Your contract is with the dealer. So it is the dealer you name as the Respondent. Your warranty also gives you rights against the Manufacturer but you have to read the conditions. The simple answer is just name the dealer. Outline the history of the matter and tell them what you want done about it. Don't be shy about asking for your money back if you don't think they will/can fix the problem. I am assuming that you have told them what you want before filing the application. If you haven't then send them a letter with a copy of the completed application enclosed with the letter. Basically write "I want you to do "this and that" or I will file the application within 7 days. Hope that helps. PS. the applications are available on-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolan Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Wow John, Read your post, and i'm pleased that you refrained from telling u exactly what you thought I agree with Boban, however, sometimes its better to "play the game" as opposed to "shooting a mosquito with a bazooka" I have had a few teething problems with my twin opti 150's on my little bertie, and there has been a few times when I could have taken to the dealer with a chainsaw ! The fact is that with a little give and take(okay,a lot of give and take) I finally got it sorted. To me, the winner was TIME. If I had gone at him with a bazooka, it would have taken me a lifetime to see his ugly head again,and get anything done to fix the problems. Its hard when you just want to strangle the dealer, and I have no doubts that you can do it ...................but................only if all other options fail. Just my 2 cents worth! best of luck mate Cheers, Stumpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR@ZY OS@M@ Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 thanks keeping tabs, i will contact the dealer tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a boat Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Hi John, I am sorry to ask if you have posted B4, but what exactly is your issue with you E-TEC. From your last post, have you contacted the dealer at all with your problem? From our experence BRP as very good with warranty claims and if you know what you are doing than problems that may arise with an E-TEC are pretty easy to solve. PM me if you need any help, Huey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shark Bait Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 You're a good guy Huey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a boat Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I had a read of this post and can not see where Crazy John gives his fuel usuage per hour, just that is costs him $400. For what I can gather he has a big block 200HP that is only reving to 5000RPM when it should be revving to at least 5500-5600 RPM. I think this is a classic example of a dealer not knowing what he is doing and I read that John is saying it cost him $28K, when we are selling 200HP E-TEC for $20,500 with the correct prop. As I mentioned before John, please post or PM me with details of your engine including the serial number so that I can check with dealerport what might have been done to your engine, style of prop and max RPM. I guess it is on a large deep vee boat and in that instance the REBEL prop offers the best fuel economy on heavy offshore boats, but the more critical factor I think is that you have the wrong prop on the boat and this will cause damage if contine to run this prop. What we are seeing on the big block E-TEC on heavy offshore boats is around the 35L/Hr when they are running the correct pitched prop. John you will be able to get your litres per reading from your digital tacho that hopefully the dealer supplied you with the engine. Also depending on the age of the outboard will can check with the laptop and see if there is a later and greater software avaiable for your engine. Cheers, Huey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR@ZY OS@M@ Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 hi huey the tacko isnt even working properly,it always gives me wrong readings,im p#ssE d off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netic Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 (edited) Not the mention the fact that we never know how much fuel we have on board as the digital fuel guage is a dud too. We only know how much fuel we wasted when we fill up again next time, we take 100 litres of extra fuel with us and always end up using it, the boat has a 220 litre tank.... One time we got told we had 5 litres of fuel left and we were 10 kms offshore..we hammered it back to clontarf and it turned out we had well over 90 litres left...dont ever trust his guage..... John has invested alot of money into this boat and i think its time you took it to huey John to check the motor out. What we are seeing on the big block E-TEC on heavy offshore boats is around the 35L/Hr when they are running the correct pitched prop. John you will be able to get your litres per reading from your digital tacho that hopefully the dealer supplied you with the engine. Also depending on the age of the outboard will can check with the laptop and see if there is a later and greater software avaiable for your engine. Huey...is that trolling or cruisng speed, cause at trolling speed that is excessive People may think i have an axe to grind against etecs but trust me i dont, I only have negative comments becuase Johns motor has let us down i i was instrumental in him getting an etec....I read all the hype and believed it and now john spent all this cash and its a dud...I feel some what responsible.....so please someone fix his damn motor Edited July 10, 2007 by netic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a boat Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Hi Guys, have you told your dealer about the Tacho not reading, it must of at one stage because you mention about getting only 5000RPM. If you do not have the Tacho wired up to the fuel sender, than it does not surprise me that it does not give you your fuel level, I bet the dealer has not done this. The fuel usuage is at cruise speed, at trolling it would be under 5L/Hr and at WOT you could easy see double that fuel usage, so if you drove everywhere at WOT for a whole day than yes you might see that type of money spent on fuel. I think Netic has said the most sensible thing and bring it up and I am sure your problems will be minor and most likely dealer caused or related. Call me and I can book you in to plug her into the laptop and see what it says. Cheers, Huey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightmanager Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Huey kindly did the laptop thing on my 75 , found a few things that the dealer I bought it off should have done , but didnt . Only a couple of taps on the keyboard , and all was well . He also checked that I had the latest Mapp for my engine (I think its the software that actually tells it what to do and when). Well worth the trip John , I hope your problems are as quick and easy to solve !! Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR@ZY OS@M@ Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 mark from cougarcraft has just rung me telling that he read the post and is going to call me tomorrow and to see what he can do to help me out with this situation.its not his problem to solve it but he feels that he wants to help me out since i am using a cougarcraft boat. it really should be the dealer to sort out the problem for me,not mark, lucky for me mark is a nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATrezise Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I just want to add that so far my experience with my ETEC 40 and warranty issues has been good. I have had one fuel injector changed and last week after going for a long cruise I still had some miss firing and rough running. I took it back to the dealer once again, this time the BRP rep happened to be in the shop. He told the tech at my dealer to replace both injector units and to change the injectors spray nozzles ? to a wider or finer spray ? ? Not sure on this last one but as soon as the parts arrive it'll be fixed thats all I care about. My fuel economy is fantastic too. A few weeks ago I did just under 100km in one day, mostly at high speed cruise or WOT and used less than 30 litres, and the first part of the trip was still in run-in mode so using more fuel. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warnie Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Andrew Sorry mate, but after reading what crazy john is going through ...if my motor has had one injector replaced been running rough, and miss firing..................... and only in the run in stage well i would be feeling a little uncomfortable with what might lay in the years ahead. Warnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATrezise Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) Warnie, Im not concerned because the injector issue is a known fault. BRP admit it. I know personally two mates who've had both injectors changed on their Etec 40 and 50. These motors run fine now. One injector was changed on mine, once I was out of run-in period (4hrs) at about 7hrs run time,(apparently the computer only showed the one injector playing up the first time round) It was running pretty bad but never stopped. Now the second is getting changed because of a slight miss Im still getting. The motors done about 9-10 hrs now. The missing isnt in any way so bad the boat is unusable, its a very slight miss, like one piston, once, then maybe 30secs or 2 minutes itll miss again, sometimes it seems to go for many mintues before a miss. Sometimes there will be a few in a row. If you are in choppy water, you dont even notice it. My above reference to 'run-in period' was when I did the long trip. When this injector gets changed, I plan on doing the trip again to test it out. I expect the fuel economy will be even better this time. I should point out that the second injector unit is getting changed on my word that its missing. A many hundred dollar part (not sure and dont care) without the tech even plugging in the computer and running my motor to see if its faulty. Id call that pretty good support from BRP. Maybe you just gotta talk to the right people. Edited July 11, 2007 by AndyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warnie Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Andy point taken.... it just seems as what is happening to crazy john for example and regardless of brand of motor,why does it seem that anything relating to fixing motors or any thing to do with boats for that matter, seems like it attracts a extra couple of zero's to either get it fixed, or buy a new one. Whoever coined the phrase ............... "owning a boat is like throwing money into a empty hole in the ocean"............. Well i suppose they weren't joking, Cheers Warnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy0884 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Warnie,Im not concerned because the injector issue is a known fault. BRP admit it. I know personally two mates who've had both injectors changed on their Etec 40 and 50. These motors run fine now. One injector was changed on mine, once I was out of run-in period (4hrs) at about 7hrs run time,(apparently the computer only showed the one injector playing up the first time round) It was running pretty bad but never stopped. Now the second is getting changed because of a slight miss Im still getting. The motors done about 9-10 hrs now. The missing isnt in any way so bad the boat is unusable, its a very slight miss, like one piston, once, then maybe 30secs or 2 minutes itll miss again, sometimes it seems to go for many mintues before a miss. Sometimes there will be a few in a row. If you are in choppy water, you dont even notice it. My above reference to 'run-in period' was when I did the long trip. When this injector gets changed, I plan on doing the trip again to test it out. I expect the fuel economy will be even better this time. I should point out that the second injector unit is getting changed on my word that its missing. A many hundred dollar part (not sure and dont care) without the tech even plugging in the computer and running my motor to see if its faulty. Id call that pretty good support from BRP. Maybe you just gotta talk to the right people. Now i am not having a dig at e-tec's specifically, well i am really but thats beside the point.... I think the most ironic thing in this instance, is that BRP carry on about four strokes with more moving parts being more prone to failure, whilst their own engines with four moving parts (pistons, conrods, crankshaft anf injector) are experiencing critical issues and failures of their most important and significant moving part.. i just goes to show that no engine is infallible regardless of the count of moving parts, and buying a motor with less moving parts does not protect you against failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netic Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 (edited) Now i am not having a dig at e-tec's specifically, well i am really but thats beside the point.... I think the most ironic thing in this instance, is that BRP carry on about four strokes with more moving parts being more prone to failure, whilst their own engines with four moving parts (pistons, conrods, crankshaft anf injector) are experiencing critical issues and failures of their most important and significant moving part.. i just goes to show that no engine is infallible regardless of the count of moving parts, and buying a motor with less moving parts does not protect you against failure. I also find it strange Sammy, most etec dealers market the fact that the 2 strokes(etecs) are a proven motor unlike a 4 stroke which is not tested technology over a long period of time....then you here stories like the Injector story....if it is tried and tested why would the injectors of so many motors need to be replaced seems like a very common problem...wouldn't BRP of got it right straight away...if the injectors can fail once they can fail twice...... Seems like there are still a few bugs in the etec's that need to be sorted out before they can claim that they are more reliable then say a Yamaha 4 stroke. From all the stuff i have read and seen Etec puts down the 4 strokes so much and yet they still have so many cobwebs to sort out.....I dont see 4 strokes putting etecs or optimax's down. I have absolutely no doubt that if John had gone with a 200hp Yamaha 4 stroke he would not be running around and worrying like he has been.......instead we would be enjoying fishing.....a few mates have bought 4 stroke yammi's and Johnno's and have had zero issues with them and are extremely happy with them Edited July 12, 2007 by netic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy0884 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 What i was getting at, was that with the reduced number of moving parts in an etec, you are heavily dependant on those parts that do move not failing....there is an inherant lack of redundancy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warnie Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Netic Strange you say ...Andy say's youve gotta talk to the right people let me put it this way......... Providing it is the motor at fault with the amount of negative feedback shown here and no doubt influential people are privvy to it then why is it not in BRP best interest to step in and say Crazy john bring her in and we will give you a new one................... Take me for example i was going to upgrade my yammies over to two etec's before the coming season........ After reading what's going on ..........i don't think so Cheers Warnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy0884 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 It appears that the dealers lack of post sale motivation is leaving a bad taste.... I am excluding Huey from this as he has been more than accomodating when it has come to fixing other peoples wrong doing.... three perfect examples in Flightmanagers, Crazy Johns and Keepin_Tabs out of the dealer issues.... i think BRP should start sending out warning shots as the dealers appear to be letting down a potentially good product once they have taken their customers money....... Something i learnt in sales a long time ago, a satisfied customer will tell two or three friends, a dissatisfied customer will tell 20 or 30..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netic Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 (edited) Netic Strange you say ...Andy say's youve gotta talk to the right people let me put it this way......... Providing it is the motor at fault with the amount of negative feedback shown here and no doubt influential people are privvy to it then why is it not in BRP best interest to step in and say Crazy john bring her in and we will give you a new one................... Take me for example i was going to upgrade my yammies over to two etec's before the coming season........ After reading what's going on ..........i don't think so Cheers Warnie I dont think there is any way to really determine what engines are better and you can only go off what you have seen and been told by other boaters. I remember when i didnt know anything about boats, a mate said get a yamaha.....there like the toyota of boats...so i did.....i got a second hand boat with a 70hp yamaha 2 stroke...in 180 hours i have done on it i have serviced it once and it has never not started or broken down on me.....(knock on wood)..... Now i have 4 mates with 4 stroke yamahas......One mate with a Brand spanking new Etec... All the mates with 4 stroke Yamahas have nothing but praise for there engines, they understand that there motors are not "as quick out of the hole" as a 2 stroke but they get great fuel economy with good overall performance and very good reliability thus far.....all very happy My one mate with an Etec...well we all know what John is going through so i dont need to explain ny further. Funny thing is John had a 4 stroke Yamaha on his previous boat which never caused him a hassle...ask john which motor he thinks was better his old one or new one...... Its unfortunate that some dealers of etecs are giving the whole range a bad name and that is somthing brp will have to have a look into...People like Huey have been great.....JOhn feels alot of comfort knowing if the problem cant get sorted he has the option of going to huey to get these issues sorted...Just goes to show you that the sponsors here are great blokes who will always help out a raider.... Maybe huey can show this thread to BRP and make them aware of dealers who may not be doing the right thing by the customer...first off ripping him off on the price and then providing ZERO after sales service... Edited July 12, 2007 by netic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shark Bait Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Netic Strange you say ...Andy say's youve gotta talk to the right people let me put it this way......... Providing it is the motor at fault with the amount of negative feedback shown here and no doubt influential people are privvy to it then why is it not in BRP best interest to step in and say Crazy john bring her in and we will give you a new one................... Take me for example i was going to upgrade my yammies over to two etec's before the coming season........ After reading what's going on ..........i don't think so Cheers Warnie I've put 45 hours on my new E-Tec 75 since april & it's been great. Hasn't been back to the dealer. All in all the experience has been pleasurable. I haven't even put any oil in it yet. People talk about the 100 oil being expensive, but at about $50 - $60, I reckon it's cheap when you concider I'm estimating about 90 hours out of a bottle. Huey would have a better idea about oil consumption. Mine's been a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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