Knot Problems

[Kit]

For years I used the Albright to join my leader to mainline... this is a very good knot, I've never had one fail... 10-12 turns up... 10-12 turns back down... wet, tighten, done.

This was mainly used on fireline in the 6-10lb range, and Flurocarbon leaders in a similar line weight..

Recently I changed the line on my spinning outfits to braid... as the braid was so thin and I was now concentrating on larger fish, I spooled in 10, 15 and 25lb line weights.

FC leaders were in the 12, 17 and 20lb weights..

Here is where I struck problems. I *think* the 10lb braid is OK, but I'm having major problems with the Albright on 15 and 25lb braid.

With 10-12 turns up and down I find that I'm unable to tighten the knot properly, the loops furthest away from the braid is not tightening up and if I run my nail along those loops, the loops will slide, lengthening the knot.

This makes me think that only the few tight loops are sustaining all the force and hence make the knot easier to fail as the force is being directed to only one point on the doubling of the leader.

I'm also getting major problems with the mainline getting caught on the leader tag and/or getting caught on my guides while casting; this is causing heaps of frustration as undoing knots in braid is really time consuming. I'm unable to trim the leader tag too close as the loops are sliding and I don't want them sliding under the tag if stretched.

I tried running less loops (7-8) with limited success.. the loops tighten down better, but I don't trust the knot.

On a few occasions, I've lifted my lure out of the water, and the Albright has just fallen apart, the loops loosening and the lure falling to my feet!

I'm sort of glad I'm having a really bad run with the fishing, as I'd hate to see that leader knot give way if I was connected to a solid fish.

So... what knot do you guys recommend for braid in those line classes?

Also what knot do you guys recommend for joining braid to leader with say PE5 to 60 or 100lb leader? I've used the Albright with similar problems, and the Double uni seems far too bulky.

Chris

Edited August 17, 2008 by Kit

[PM79]

When I started using braid (which wasn't all that long ago) I saw a lot of improved albright knot diagrams that suggested 8-10 down and up but I came to think it was over kill and as you've found can be a pain to tighten up properly, so I ended up doing 5-6 up and down and not only did it tighten up fine it also held.

That being said I have switched to the regular albright thanks to Mark Dunphy.

I attended a Shimano & Squidgy information night last month and I was talking to him about his preferred line to leader knot for braid after he was talking about targeting snapper with some of the new Squidgies and he put me onto the regular albright but with a slight change.

He suggested that instead of tying the improved albright that I should tie the regular one (as seen here - Albright Knot) with 7-9 up and do a hitch in the knot to lock it off, he then said that the knot shouldn't slip without the hitch when tied properly but the hitch makes it just that little bit more secure.

So basically when you've reached the point shown in the image below you pull the tag through and then you take it over, under, through the loop again so it forms a wrap on the tag side of loop and then you just wet and tighten well.

He and one of the other reps there swore by it for fishing for anything on soft plastics from bream to snapper, kings and jews.

I'm also getting major problems with the mainline getting caught on the leader tag and/or getting caught on my guides while casting

If the knot is tightened properly then you can cut the leader tag right off against the knot and it should not slip and it won't catch but alternatively you can use some rubber cement to coat and smooth the knot out so it doesn't catch.

Hope this helped.

Edited August 17, 2008 by reLapse

[gretsch]

I would try a slim beauty. Really good knot and very easy to tie especially in the field. I found that the Albright is great but you must have tied it perfectly for it not to fail.

Google "Slim Beauty knot" and you will find the recipe. Make sure you put the word "knot" in your description otherwise, you may get side tracked and forget about the knot all together..

Edited August 17, 2008 by Cephalopod

[stylo]

Are you using your fingers OR pliers to tighten the knot ?

[The Iceman]

I use the slim beauty and have never had a problem with heavier outfits but on my bream outfits I still use a double uni only because I find it hard to form the double granny part in 4lb and 6lb leaders

[gretsch]

Fingers Stylo.. just allow enough tag end length to wrap around you hand a couple of times. Pliers are handy but mine are rusted and f...ked if know where they are!!

Iceman has a good point. I tend to leave the double overhand a little bit looser in the light stuff untill I have the braid through.

Edited August 17, 2008 by Cephalopod

[stylo]

Fingers Stylo.. just allow enough tag end length to wrap around you hand a couple of times. Pliers are handy but mine are rusted and f...ked if know where they are!!

Iceman has a good point. I tend to leave the double overhand a little bit looser in the light stuff untill I have the braid through.

lol sorry Ceph, I was asking Kit !!

Pliers make a big difference to getting the knots nice and taut especially with the bigger gauge braids.

[Kruzenvax]

I have stopped using that double overhand part in slim beauty - instead I use a uni with the leader around the braid double; the rest is the same. Same strength, same compactness, much easire to tie.

HTH

Iceman has a good point. I tend to leave the double overhand a little bit looser in the light stuff untill I have the braid through.

[Kit]

Are you using your fingers OR pliers to tighten the knot ?

Stylo, I'm using fingers, which has never been a problem in the past with fireline.

I read somewhere to use pliers as well, but once again I found it really hard to tighten the loops furthest away from the main line tag.

I just googled Albright and found different ways of tying it.

I tie it this way:

but then you can also tie it this way:

I'm going to try the second method as i can see how it might help to tighten the end loops better.

Cephalopod, A friend also uses the slim beauty and recommended that to me... I googled it and found 3 different ways to tie it!

Do you have a recommendation here?

Some incorporate an overhand knot, which I thought would really weaken the flurocarbon or mono leader (like a wind knot).

Relapse, thanks for the tip.. I'm gonna try the second method I posted above first to see if i can tighten the end loops properly, and then I'll give your suggestion a go.

Chris

[Jigholio]

A slimmer beauty from Varivas

[gretsch]

lol sorry Ceph, I was asking Kit !!

Pliers make a big difference to getting the knots nice and taut especially with the bigger gauge braids.

No worries.. hope you improve your knot status.. there are some great tips in this thread.

Nothing worse than knot troubles.

[PM79]

I just googled Albright and found different ways of tying it.

Yep the first method is the Improved Albright and the second is the regular Albright.

Relapse, thanks for the tip.. I'm gonna try the second method I posted above first to see if i can tighten the end loops properly, and then I'll give your suggestion a go.

No problem mate, I think you'll find it will tighten pretty easily and you can really put the pressure on it to get it nice and snug and that's what I like about it myself.

Edited August 18, 2008 by reLapse

[PM79]

I just thought I'd add that I finally got the Slim Beauty Knot tied perfectly after trying for a while, the knot looked really simple to do but tightening it up was quite annoying to start with.

@Cephalopod

Do you put the braid through single or double it over?

I found this diagram on a US website and it seemed to work well, http://www.anglers-outlet.com/slim_beauty_knot.htm

Thoughts?

I'll probably stick with the albright for a while and play with the slim beauty until I feel comfortable with it but atleast I can get it tied now.

Edited August 18, 2008 by reLapse

[wakd]

The Slim Beauty works a treat for me, never had probs with it - watch this video to see it done, and take note of how you pull it up tight:

http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/knots/slim_beauty.aspx

The best thing about the slim with heavier leaders is that the leader tag faces back up the mainline, so no catching on the guides when you cast.

I don't double the braid over, neither do any of the guys I know who tie it.

I hate albrights, but maybe cause I have never practised them much.

Good luck!

[Dreamtime]

For years I used the Albright to join my leader to mainline... this is a very good knot, I've never had one fail... 10-12 turns up... 10-12 turns back down... wet, tighten, done.

Why would you want to go away from a knot that has not failed you in the past???

[dato]

I lost a 120+kg black earlier this year when the albright knot failed after 2hrs and 40min (only about 20mt from the boat). The knot was between 50lb finns and 150lb leader. I think my problem was twofold my practice with knots between braid and heavy leader was limited and I was over the fight without a harness and I cranked the drag up to about 11-12kg in an attempt persuade the beak to the boat.

For light braid to light leader when snapper fishing I use a double uni and have never had a problem breaking the leader through the knot.

[Kit]

Why would you want to go away from a knot that has not failed you in the past???

Mariner,

In my original post I explained why, and it is cos ever since I changed over to heavier braid, I have developed endless problems with the albright

[nemu]

I've used opposed snells with sucess with 5 turns in the braid 4 in other don't pull them up that tight untill the knots are formed and firm against other even then be carefull pulling it to tight and bur the braid with a lighter as fraid tag end will work into the knot causing it tocome apart and fail oposed nail knot is the same and can be tied with aneedle I've used these knots inthe lightest and heaviest to 200Lb braid.A problem people have with braid is pulling it up too tight dont pull it up that much it will cut through your leader then you should be alright

[gretsch]

Guys,

The Albright is unpredictable. It can work for you for months and then all of a sudden, pop when you least expect it. If you think about how the knot is actually working, you can see the huge scope for error.

Double uni, slim beauty etc all have a locking nmechanism. The Albright lacks same.

[ORES]

I just thought I'd add that I finally got the Slim Beauty Knot tied perfectly after trying for a while, the knot looked really simple to do but tightening it up was quite annoying to start with.

@Cephalopod

Do you put the braid through single or double it over?

I found this diagram on a US website and it seemed to work well, http://www.anglers-outlet.com/slim_beauty_knot.htm

Thoughts?

I'll probably stick with the albright for a while and play with the slim beauty until I feel comfortable with it but atleast I can get it tied now.

Bloody good knot mate. Thanks for the link. Ive been practicing it with 30lb braid to 100lb leader and its a very strong knot if done correctly.

[PM79]

Yep Ceph put me onto it numerous times and I was unwilling to switch but so far I'm liking it.