Another Tragic Death-Bondi Murk

[rickster]

Firstly, my condolences to the family and friends. It is indeed tragic, especially with a baby along the way. Sometimes life is just so unfair. It's extremely sad that one weekends disaster is followed two weeks later by another. We all need to help in any way we can to prevent further loss of live and trauma to families associated.

I know that we are again going to inundated with "ban rock fishing" and "compulsory life vests" etc. but I think it's worth having a read of todays telegraph and looking at some of the facts involved. Those of us that are regular rock fisherman know that these sorts of tragedies are just waiting to happen. Consider the following:

This poor chap had just recently taken to rock fishing. He decided to fish at Bondi Murk:

* Only second time he had been there

* Went alone

* Mid morning high tide

* 2-3 metre swell

Let me point out emphatically that I am not racist in any shape or form. I work in a very multicultural environment and all get on exceptionally well. Of the recent deaths of rock fisherman this year, the telegraph tells us that over 90% are Asian.

Surely this is telling us that we need better education in the warnings of the possible perils of this sport. You would hope that most comprehend and we stop losing unnecessary lives. It's about time we become proactive and push more towards "prevention" rather than "protection". All it takes is a bit more commonsense.

Rick

[steze]

What the Newspaper has highlighted is kind of true unfortunately. My Background is Vietnamese and I take no offence at all to what has been said by the previous post. It is just so frustrating and dissappointing to have so many tragedies in such a short amount of time. Even with my own experiences when I went fishing not too long ago and just watched how two chinese men who seemed like very inexperienced fisherman stand in the most ridiculous spots you could ever think of. These specific spots where I fish is where the waves come crashing over and these guys were wearing sandles and just standing there as If it was nothing. At one stage, one of the guys were standing in a high area where the waves hit you head on, and I mean it will smash you front on. If the wave hit him, it would of been a guaranteed death, not from drowning or being washed in the water but from falling and smashing his head onto the rocks. I cannot understand how ignorant these people can be. It can only be logical If you are fishing of the rocks to stand in an area where you can stay dry and waves won't be able to reach you. To be honest, based on my own cultural and personal experiences, I would have to say that alot of the asian fisherman that I know are not aware of things such as swell's and waves. They are only aware of simple things like wind and whether it will be raining or not. I know for a fact that the Vietnamese newspaper's do not have a section displaying information like waves or swell readings.

I would be devistated if similiar preventable issues were to occur which could lead to ban in rock fishing. I think life jacket's isn't a bad idea. However, I think alot of fisherman need to be educated before they start fishing. In saying this I am not targeting anyone here on this forum, I am just generally speaking. Perhaps for brand new fishing license applicants, it should be compulsory that they are to attend a 2-3 hour fishing safety seminar. These seminar's could provide new fisherman the basic skills and knowledge to be familiar with things such as swells and waves and basic rock safety. There could also be many ways that we as a fishing community help people who have trouble understanding english with reading or writing. Anyway I think I've said too much. I apologise if I have offended anyone.

Edited May 17, 2010 by steze

[Michael Hatte]

What your've said mate is absoulutly spot on.

I highly doubt it if you have offened anyone on the site, id say most people feel the same way you do.

[Hodgey]

What your've said mate is absoulutly spot on.

I highly doubt it if you have offened anyone on the site, id say most people feel the same way you do.

+ 1 to Mick's comment. I thought your response was very well written, Steze.

Cheers

Hodgey

[rickster]

What the Newspaper has highlighted is kind of true unfortunately. My Background is Vietnamese and I take no offence at all to what has been said by the previous post. It is just so frustrating and dissappointing to have so many tragedies in such a short amount of time. Even with my own experiences when I went fishing not too long ago and just watched how two chinese men who seemed like very inexperienced fisherman stand in the most ridiculous spots you could ever think of. These specific spots where I fish is where the waves come crashing over and these guys were wearing sandles and just standing there as If it was nothing. At one stage, one of the guys were standing in a high area where the waves hit you head on, and I mean it will smash you front on. If the wave hit him, it would of been a guaranteed death, not from drowning or being washed in the water but from falling and smashing his head onto the rocks. I cannot understand how ignorant these people can be. It can only be logical If you are fishing of the rocks to stand in an area where you can stay dry and waves won't be able to reach you. To be honest, based on my own cultural and personal experiences, I would have to say that alot of the asian fisherman that I know are not aware of things such as swell's and waves. They are only aware of simple things like wind and whether it will be raining or not. I know for a fact that the Vietnamese newspaper's do not have a section displaying information like waves or swell readings.

I would be devistated if similiar preventable issues were to occur which could lead to ban in rock fishing. I think life jacket's isn't a bad idea. However, I think alot of fisherman need to be educated before they start fishing. In saying this I am not targeting anyone here on this forum, I am just generally speaking. Perhaps for brand new fishing license applicants, it should be compulsory that they are to attend a 2-3 hour fishing safety seminar. These seminar's could provide new fisherman the basic skills and knowledge to be familiar with things such as swells and waves and basic rock safety. There could also be many ways that we as a fishing community help people who have trouble understanding english with reading or writing. Anyway I think I've said too much. I apologise if I have offended anyone.

Hi Steze,

Thank you for taking my comments the way they were intended and as not picking on a certain culture. I think it's a great idea about the licences, even if they just provide a booklet to everyone explaining the possible dangers of rock fishing. My only concern is - do we all have a fishing licence. I've never been asked to show my licence yet and fish basically every weekend.

Rick

[SuperWoofer]

it was absolutely horrible thing that no one wants to hear. i feel sorry about this guy. i am a chinese, and i love fishing but always bear two things in mind, legislation and safety. i will absolutely translate and post the comments of this thread to australian chinese fishing forum. i believe the decision of where to fishing is personal, and i agree most of asian fishermen have no idea what a fatal consequence could turn up if they do not think of safety issue. as many post in chinese forum, some "professional fishos" suggest good spots with google map attached, if you find them closely in google map, its just one step over the border of HELL.

[Basil D]

I reckon when a fisho goes to his/her License they should first read up on safety and pass a small exam on safety, much the same way as a gun license, you cant get one if you don't pass a safety exam

[reyzor]

I reckon when a fisho goes to his/her License they should first read up on safety and pass a small exam on safety, much the same way as a gun license, you cant get one if you don't pass a safety exam

hi all this is my first post here,

sorry Groper, i have to disagree with you on this one, the thing is, if people start to fail the "test" which you propose, they are still going to go to the tackle store, get their bait and fish, where as with a gun, you cant buy one (unless on the black market) without the appropriate lisence.

i think a smiple option would be a small hand book, printed in various languages as a safety guideline..... you cant educated 100% of the poeple about 100% of possibilites. i think if the majority of people who have their fishing lisences would read a small booklet about do's and donts then a lot fewer incidents like this would occur.

i know that the people who are doing the right thing by purchasing lisences are probably the ones who have a better understanding of the conditions and risk, but if teh fishing fraternity can be seen as doing somthing proactive then there would be a lower risk of us fisho's being tarred with the same brush and causing a knee jerk reaction.

sorry if i have offeneded anyone with my post, it is not intended that way at all.

my condolences go out to the family and friends and those affected by this tradgity.

[Victor78]

Hey All

My personal opion is that the commerical tv stations news programs should make a point of showing the wave and swell height on there weather report as 99% of people will watch the nightly news to see if its gonna rain or not the night berfore planning a trip. This would be the best way to inform the public whether its siutable for rock fishing or not.

I was fishing with steve on that weekend he metion inexperieced peolpe putting them selfs in dangerous sititutions. The only reason these ppl didt get injuryed or die is pure luck on there behalf but they where smart enough to leave when we did as it was getting to dangerous

Victor

[AndrewNR]

Unfortunatly we live amongst many uneducated people of all sorts. Educating will definatly help but it won't stop people from drowning. Some people have confidence to the max and thinks they are invincible but the sad matter to the fact is that mother nature doesn't pick or choose it just does what it wants. The only thing that saves the experienced people from dying is they know when to stay at home. If by some chance even the most experienced rock fisherman gets taken in you are in trouble. I say suck it in and make them compulsary for everybody to stop deaths. I know they may not be the most comfortable way to fish but it's better off than being dead. I think that lifejackets are a must as where would you start any other way? Education? Our government can't even organize a piss up in a pub! And how many people take note? Most but not all. I don't want to offend the exp rock fishos who know they won't die but nothing is for sure is it. I say make lifejackets compulsory for rock fishos to save lives and fine them too if they aren't wearing them. Saves some poor old police officer from having to tell just one person that their loved one is dead I think it's a winner. Once again, some people are against wearing them and I am not trying to offend, just hoping no one else dies from a sport we all love. Cheers Andrew

P.S Maybe even making it compulsory to wear them atoms open ocean only? I don't know, something though. Ask the families of the recently passed people what they think? I'm sure they would have something to say. Cheers again and happy fishing.

[luderick -angler]

I have a lot of hours on the rocks and there is some common factors in rock fishing deaths one most people disregard the conditions or misread them, two most of them have never been properly educated in the sport, three most of them take unneccesary risks for a feed, four a good majority have never grown up on the coast or spent a lot of time arounfd the coast learning to respect the ocean. Most rock fisherman that come home alive do so cause they have their wits and common sense intact nad know when not to fish or give it away if its getting dicey!

Steze is spot on a lot could be done if all newsprint of all languages had a basic combined weather fishing report with a warning if a big swell is predicted! Remember the ocean is not rascist people are! A big lot of kudos to you all for keeping this post sensible!

[Basil D]

hi all this is my first post here,

sorry Groper, i have to disagree with you on this one, the thing is, if people start to fail the "test" which you propose, they are still going to go to the tackle store, get their bait and fish, where as with a gun, you cant buy one (unless on the black market) without the appropriate lisence.

i think a smiple option would be a small hand book, printed in various languages as a safety guideline..... you cant educated 100% of the poeple about 100% of possibilites. i think if the majority of people who have their fishing lisences would read a small booklet about do's and donts then a lot fewer incidents like this would occur.

i know that the people who are doing the right thing by purchasing lisences are probably the ones who have a better understanding of the conditions and risk, but if teh fishing fraternity can be seen as doing somthing proactive then there would be a lower risk of us fisho's being tarred with the same brush and causing a knee jerk reaction.

sorry if i have offeneded anyone with my post, it is not intended that way at all.

my condolences go out to the family and friends and those affected by this tradgity.

sure they can get there tackle but they still want there license, hence they will learn the safety guidelines

[AndrewNR]

Why don't both options get done? Education and lifejackets? When I go rockfishing I wear a pfd and it makes me feel more comfortable. I only wear it as one time my cousin almost died from going in. He was very lucky. If it wasn't for him I would wear nothing and just say make them learn. I have seen what can happen and was lucky for my cousin to get away with it. We are Australian and just were too cocky and got taught a lesson. Some lessons could be worse. Sorry for the strong opinion but its close to me. I know 99% fish safe but 1% don't which ruins it fo everyone as the media blows it out. But even if it saves 1 life a year I thinks it's worth it. Cheers andrew

Edited May 18, 2010 by cant catch any

[steze]

Everyone's idea's here are fantastic from my opinion. Perhaps it may even be possible to suggest these idea's to the government agency that looks after the policy's and guidelines. I think we as a fishing community are able to do something. I do not think that they will just sit still after the horrific incidents that have occured in the past month. I believe the life jacket's will not be as effective as preventative measures. Hypothetically if life jackets were made compulsory for all rock fisherman. Some may think that because they have a life jacket, they are invincible and are not afraid of being washed in hence creating more problems. I strongly believe through basic education and awareness as I have mentioned in my above post is the most effective.

I disagree with taking the exam just for a fishing license. This can cause alot more complications. For example, even if people fail. It does not stop them from fishing. Keeping in mind that there are many fishing spots in NSW that the fisheries never come to inspect. I read somewhere, I think on this forum that there are very few officers from the fisheries department which cover very few areas. You will also require qualified person's to develop this exam and also to update it all the time which may not be very feasible.

In saying all this, If possible perhaps I could develop a report with reccomendations. Depending on how much other reports I need to do for Uni.

Steven,

[Longy]

I reckon when a fisho goes to his/her License they should first read up on safety and pass a small exam on safety, much the same way as a gun license, you cant get one if you don't pass a safety exam

Having to pass a test means nothing, how hard is it to pass a drivers license test? you learn about all the do and don'ts about driving, don't drink and drive, speed kills! but has that stopped all the deaths on the roads?

So test, license or forcing people to wear life jackets is not the answer, people will still go out and rock fish no matter what change gets put in place with or without regards to the laws, it's just human nature.

People rarely look ahead and think about what might or can happen, people just think about the now (I'm here to catch fish - in this case), everyone thinks it will never happen to them until it's too late, and that is the sad reality of life, if you're lucky you get a second chance but sadly in most situations there is only one outcome.

[andrias]

Having to pass a test means nothing, how hard is it to pass a drivers license test? you learn about all the do and don'ts about driving, don't drink and drive, speed kills! but has that stopped all the deaths on the roads?

So test, license or forcing people to wear life jackets is not the answer, people will still go out and rock fish no matter what change gets put in place with or without regards to the laws, it's just human nature.

People rarely look ahead and think about what might or can happen, people just think about the now (I'm here to catch fish - in this case), everyone thinks it will never happen to them until it's too late, and that is the sad reality of life, if you're lucky you get a second chance but sadly in most situations there is only one outcome.

Longy it's true that learning about the do 's and don'ts about driving does not prevent death on the road, but it DOES REDUCE the death on the road imo. Take my home country where driving with the influence of alcohol is allowed and there is no speed limit enforced, the death toll percentage is staggeringly higher than australia. Educating fisho about the danger of rock fishing will not completely eradicate rock fishing death but it will reduce it. In reality it is almost impossible to eradicate something completely but it is always possible to reduce it if effort is applied. I for once has stupidly fish on the rock with nothing but a pair of thongs and i was lucky nothing happen to me. At the time i did not know anything or understand (i am asian too btw )about swell or the danger of rock fishing.So i guess I was lucky to learn the danger of rock fishing before anything has happened to me. I am sure most of these people that die from rock fishing did not understand the danger and if the government manage to educate them then i guess we can save maybe 8 out of 10 that died. Just my 2 cent anyway no offence intended to anyone

[whi7eindustries]

I lived opposite the bondi murk, and fished it on a regular basis. On one occasion myself and two friends went night fishing on a full moon with a 2m building swell. We were watching the bommie for whitewater and thats how we could judge the size of the wave coming. We had a petrol generator and flood lights rigged into the rocks, still we missed an incoming wave that took the generator and all our fishing gear, that was with three experienced fishos. We all got away lightly, but still a very close call. But to go rock fishing on your own in a building swell......THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE EVER......DON'T FISH ALONE, if this guy had someone with him, an alert could be made, an attempt to save him, anything. But if your on your own, well thats the way it will end. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but how many lives do we need to sacrifice before it happens again, the worse thing is, it will. I live for my fishing, hell its the only reason i go to work. But please someone get the message out there that rockfishing IS the most dangerous sport in the world, its a fact.

Tobin

[DMG]

Hi Guys,


I came across this topic and although the topic is old 2010 it is still a very current problem.


I would like to share a story with you about what happened to me in the 1970s at The Murk.


I was about 14 yrs old,it was a nice sunny day,there was a bit of a swell running but it wasnt too big and no wind.

My friends and I were fishing at The Murk,the rocks were dry so we didnt have any cleats on as sometimes in the dry cleats can also be a trip hazard.

I was fishing the North facing side of The Murk it looks kind of like a gutter just around from the popular high point rock everyone fishes off,anyway i was fishing and a wave just came over the top of the platform where I was, just enough to re-wet the edges of the rock and make the rock slippery again.

I turned around to bait up my hook and bang next thing I remember I had slipped and was sliding belly down over the rock platform and over about a 12 foot drop into the sewer.

I was 14 and wearing jeans,shoes and a big bulky parker,all the worst things you could have worn in this situation.

I popped up and I was in a state of shock,nobody saw me go in,it was that fast.

I was heading with the swell as it broke hard on to the rocks,then I saw a guys fishing rod and line pointing out as I drifted past,I grabbed that line and pulled it,I heard that old man who was fishing for Black Fish Yell and swear as he was in shock too because he didnt know what hit his rod.

Lucky for me on the day there was about 6 people fishing there who were older than we were.

Someone grabbed a gaff and I hung on to that gaff long enough for someone else to run up to grab the bouy that was a fair distance away.

My parker filled with air when I fell in and kept me afloat just long enough to grab that guys rod.


The rule amonst my friends was if you went into the water there you had to swim out away from the rocks and wait for a rescue,sounds logical ? but when I looked at this option back then at the time and the fact I was 14 and could not swim,it was certain death.

I chose to stay where I was and it turned out to be the right decision,I was in the water for about 30 mins until somebody went and got rope from somewhere,the adults tied a loop at one end and told me to put it over my head and around my waist,it was like a slip knot.

They all pulled me up the ledge with the help of the swells,at one stage I disappeared under the ledge and under water.


I can tell you this,if you fall in at The Murk,THERE IS NO WAY OUT alive except the way I was rescued or by helicopter.

Swimming across the boils and the breaking swells out to sea is an option, on the day I chose not to do this but that was the thing you were supposed to do back then if you went in to avoid getting knocked out on the rocks and drowning.


I lived at Bondi at the time and I walked home crying my eyes out and never went back there again.

I would like to thank very much my rescuers for saving my life that day.

Sorry if there is so much detail but this is etched in my mind forever.


To this day I still fish from the rocks and some of them are just as bad as The Murk if not worse around Little Bay etc.

I respect the water,I wear cleats and I wear a life jacket in the dangerous spots I go to.

I also give the rescue helicopters a wave as they fly over doing there routine fly up and down the coast knowing in the back of my mind and theirs that one day they may come to help me or someone else who is in trouble.


I always watch my spots before fishing them for atleast 30 min to 1 hour prior to me fishing it,unless its flat and no swell, so I can see whats breaking over it and decide if its too dangerous for me to fish.


I have seen guys fishing these spots most of Asian appearance without any cleats or life jackets in jeans etc on days that even I would not chance.

You must plan how you are going to get out before you fish so that in the event you do go in atleast you have a planned escape,sometimes the escapes are not there,some spots do not have a way to get out,like The Murk and some of the other spots I know of and have fished.


I think the way to go is T.V commercials,education.

Fishing is the most dangerous sport in the world with more people killed in this sport than any other.


Even though I did not get washed off the rocks,something so simple and easy to do in a dangerous fishing spot,like a slip or a fall and you go in that way can end your life just as quick as any rough conditions can.


Please if you fish off the rocks at dangerous spots,always wear cleats and a life jacket that will support your weight,always watch your spot atleast for 30 min prior to fishing it and always try to help people in trouble without risking your own life.


BE SAFE, HAVE FUN !


Thanks

D.G

[DMG]

Asian people love to fish,its very popular.

More Asian people are fishing in Australia than anyone else,so statistically Asian people will appear to be high up the ladder when it comes to drowning from fishing.

[Mike89]

Thanks for resurrecting this thread and sharing your story, DG. As someone just starting out fishing off the rocks it's a good reminder for me to pay attention to safety precautions and equipment.

Speaking for myself when I do hear about someone losing their life after being swept off the rocks when fishing, it is certainly tragic but there is always some distance in that I haven't heard of any deaths at the places I fish, or any stories such as yours from people that I know or fish with. In short, it won't happen to me.

You sharing your story has brought home that this is absolutely not the case and that it can happen to anyone - however unlikely it may seem - when they are not paying heed to safety measures.

Thanks for sharing!

[DMG]

No problem bro, be safe.

[tyrone07]

Not criticising any race whatsoever because I believe all races are equally guilty but common sense when fishing the rocks goes a hell of a long way when fishing off the stones. To many people both experienced and inexperienced underestimate the power of the ocean when fishing off a rock environment

[DMG]

Yes Tyrone I agree.

There is a website that i use that has live cams of a lot of beaches in NSW and QLD i go to and look at places close to where im thinking of fishing it gives me an idea of how rough it is,cause my drive is so far and on a few times i have driven for 1.5 hours only having to turn back,because its too rough.

I also look at google earth to see what way the place im fishing at faces N.S.E.W and then look at B.O.M to see what direction the wind is blowing and the swell is running.

This gives my an idea if its going to be too rough before i get out the door but its not 100%

Also then of course the tides are then added to the formula.

Bro even i push my limits sometimes,its like gambling, the rush is addictive and just like gambling you have to know when to stop playing before you lose the lot.

I pushed myself a bit yesterday but it was the walk back through the channel that was the hard part waist deep at high tide and running water,you have to time your run between the lulls from the rocks to get out,getting out from running waist deep water on to a 3 foot rock to safety with yours hands full is not easy especially after a 1 minute dash across rocks.

in the end i took a 15 sec rest cause thats all i had before the wave was going to wash back down the channel,then i hopped out and because i was a bit tired from standing on the rocks all day and that dash across the line i stumbled up onto the rocks nearly falling.

its only a 3 foot drop back into the running water but imagine if i had fallen and hit my head ? cant do nothing when your unconscious breathing in water instead of air.

Like i said things happen when you least expect it.

No cleats or life jackets are going to save someone who trips off a cliff on the way to there favorite fishing spot in perfect safe sea and low tide,and it happens.

Slipping/tripping/washed off the rocks,all can have the same end result.

Correct me if im wrong but im sure there are more people rescued each year from boating accidents than fishing around Australia.

Common sense yes and experience yes brings down the risk but even then people still die.

look at yacht racing and the Sydney to Hobart.

that guy that owned the marina at The Spit bridge was a pro yachtsman but his yacht hit rocks off port kembla with all the modern tech on board killing him and his navigator.

and he hit those rocks because he relied on the GPS ,too much,imagine that as the coroners report said.

Sometimes as Tony Abbot put it **** happens and no matter how safe you are wont stop you from harms way.

You will not catch many fish at low tide, if any at all,everyone knows this.

Rocks and high tide are a bad mix,wind and swell and high tide are high risk = getting washed off the rocks becomes very likely more than not likely.

[DMG]

its a high risk sport.

swimming with your cloths on is hard for people who can swim,people who cant swim will sink within minutes,once your lungs fill with water you sink,until popping up a few days later when the gasses in your body bloat you and float you up back to the surface.

your first mouthful of salt water will make you vomit straight away,vomiting and swimming is hard to do.

being knock unconscious from a fall on the way into the water you have no hope

Edited September 26, 2016 by D.G

[Twinfisher 4.9]

This is a challenging and serious issue. I have fished off the rocks for over 50 years - yes have been knocked over a few times, but never have been washed in, and never in danger of that happening. Is that purely good luck or good management? I prefer to think the latter. I joined a fishing club at the age of 13 and what I learned from these experienced anglers probably helped to keep me safer. But at the end of the day, it is the individuals decision as to when and where to fish and that cannot be controlled or monitored, licence or no license.

It is very unfortunate that overseas born immigrants make up the majority of the fatalities. Why - well they have little understanding of the power and danger of the ocean, and I can understand that. However I would not like to think that all of us rock fisho's should have extra impositions placed upon us i.e. mandatory flotation devices. In summer I don't even wear a T-shirt! In some locations cleats are not only useless but even dangerous.

I suggest, as just a thought, that NSW Fisheries, Maritime Services, or whatever they call themselves today - Yes Minister, I'm talking to you. Issue brochures to all tackle shops when someone purchases a "rock fishing" type rod, they also provide a published brochure in rock fishing safety in multi languishes. I will offer my services to provide this. We need to save more lives, through education.