squidboy Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Hi raiders, I am considering purchasing a SE Sport 300 Hydrofoil for my Suzuki 50 four stroke. Besides reading all the advertising for these hydrofoils just wondering raider experiences with putting these foils on their outboard and testing them. Do they actually save fuel and put any extra speed as a result from the lift factor or is this all miffs? Would like to know how much speed also if possible. Cheers for any help. Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty1856 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Hi Marco. I had a seamaster ser II on my Hydrofield that done a ok job and also had one on a Haines 17c but i cant remember the brand but I did not notice any real change. What i have been told is that this is a hit and miss, i guess if you are under powered it may make a differance onto the plane but my best improvements have been made through prop selection. This i just told the pro's what i had and what i was looking to gain and just by changing the prop i have had great improvement. As for the sports 300 it self I have not used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 In essence foils provide lift & on the right set up will put the boat on the plane at lower rev's / speed. I have a permatrim & think they are slightly better than the Sport 300 as the surface area is larger. However , on the other hand the Permatrim is around $70 more expensive. The other thing I've noticed is the ride being a bit softer when traveling into a swell , both going up & down. It acts a bit like a rudder but in the horizontal position Saving fuel. I've not noticed any change ,some suggest there is a slight increase as the foil can add more drag. More speed. Unlikly , As mentioned above , the foil is there to enhance the lift coming onto the plane. Once on the plane , other than some assistance when in a swell there is no benifit. If you decide to proceed I suggest you select either the 300 or Permatrim as the "wing" style can be dangerous They can dig in & tip the boat onto it's side Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidboy Posted August 18, 2010 Author Share Posted August 18, 2010 Thanks for the ips, especially tipping the boat. Prop was changed over the weekend going from a 13 inch to a 14 inch, I lost a knot but it was rough conditions on Sunday. Might have to try it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWV Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 We had them fitted to some of our work boats a few years ago and they did not do a thing. I wouldnt waste my money if i was you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffy Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 (edited) We had them fitted to some of our work boats a few years ago and they did not do a thing. I wouldnt waste my money if i was you. That is a broad statement particularly not knowing what sort/size etc of boat squidboy has. Boats are like fingerprints - every one is different, both in the motor/hull brand and setup,hull material, and also in the internal fitout, so what is good for one may not necessarily be good for another. However, if some one is asking whether a particular aftermarket item will improve their boat's performance, then it is up to the individual to research that and make their own decisions based on opinions from others who have similar size and style of boat. I happen to know Squidboys' boat and in my opinion an appropriate foil like the 300 would help, but he ultimately has to make his own decisions. Tuffy Edited August 21, 2010 by Tuffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidboy Posted August 21, 2010 Author Share Posted August 21, 2010 Thanks Tuiffy for your comment. Still researching. Your one appears to be the best given it is flat on the bottom and without the wings. I have also found that you can buy a clip that means you do not have to drill into the motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbink Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Actually you will lose a bit off the top speed due to drag. However they will make a boat quicker to plane and able to plane at lower speeds. They can make a boat handle better offshore because of this as well as save fuel. They are more likely to give a benefit if the boat is stern heavy or underpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWV Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 (edited) We had them fitted to some of our work boats a few years ago and they did not do a thing. I wouldnt waste my money if i was you. That is a broad statement particularly not knowing what sort/size etc of boat squidboy has. Boats are like fingerprints - every one is different, both in the motor/hull brand and setup,hull material, and also in the internal fitout, so what is good for one may not necessarily be good for another. However, if some one is asking whether a particular aftermarket item will improve their boat's performance, then it is up to the individual to research that and make their own decisions based on opinions from others who have similar size and style of boat. I happen to know Squidboys' boat and in my opinion an appropriate foil like the 300 would help, but he ultimately has to make his own decisions. Tuffy They where fitted to 16 boats ranging from 14ft tinnies with 25-40hp outboards up to 23 ft fiberglass runabouts with 225hp outboards and everything in between. There was notable difference what so ever on any of the boats. So I based my statement on my previous experience on vessel's fitted with foils. I think he is using this forum to research the product that he is interested in so he can make his own decisions as you have mentioned. If people didnt reply like I did there would be no point. What type of boat is it? Edited August 21, 2010 by Whaler 255 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidboy Posted August 21, 2010 Author Share Posted August 21, 2010 It is a 4.2 Anglapro Outlaw with a Suzuki 50 four-stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisso Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 my two cents worth!!! i once had one of these of my boats, perhaps not the brand in question but a foil none the less. Sure it seemed to help the boat plane quicker but the trade off was that the handling was severely compromised. It handled like it was a slot car and was quite dangerous and frankly horrible. I guess the moral to the story is that in some instances the foils may assist in getting the hull out of the water onto a plane but the affect on the boats handling may be affected by this. In conclusion, if motors were meant to have these then the manufacturers would fit them standard. given that is not the case, it would appear that they would not concur with foils being a necessary addition. Either your boat is underpowered or your prop is incorrect for your hull. I think you might find that you no longer like how your vessel handles after fitting one.. that choice is of course yours to make. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWV Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 It is a 4.2 Anglapro Outlaw with a Suzuki 50 four-stroke. In my professional opinion I dont think you will gain much if any benfit out of fitting foils. You may be better moving some weight around the boat or adjusting the trim of the engine while your trying to get on the plane or holding a slow plane. Your boat is definatly not underpowered. I think your best option is to move some weight around the boat. goodluck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warnie100 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 my experience is that they will get you on the plane quicker and are good in a river for skiing ect but i take them off for outside as i found that in a following sea they can make your boat handle differently and can have a tendency to grab and jerk in the wrong direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perko_tas Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 One issue I have with foils is when you trim your engine. They may work fine at zero degree incidence or small angles of attack, that is when the flow hits the leading edge head on or slightly from below. This will create a low pressure on top of the foil producing upward lift, which may well assist a bot to get on the plane. However I would be concerned that they might stall when used at high angles of attack at high speeds, ie when the motor is trimmed up. This would create a low pressure on the lower surface and would apply 'lift' in a downward direction effectively pulling the rear of the boat into the water. If the motor was trimmed up enough I would be worried about stalling the foil creating lots of drag potentially hindering both prop and skeg performance. Just my thoughts. Hope they are off help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty1856 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 As I said seems a hit and miss Marco, I think every one has good points due to their trials and errors but maybe see if you can borrow the Sport 300 or simlar and give it a crack before you spend your hard erned money and report back to us on your results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty1856 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Hey Marco I just remembered I have a set of Seamaster ser II off one of my boats that would fit yours. I only did one trip with them so they are new and your welco me to try them if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidboy Posted August 27, 2010 Author Share Posted August 27, 2010 Hey Marco I just remembered I have a set of Seamaster ser II off one of my boats that would fit yours. I only did one trip with them so they are new and your welco me to try them if you like. Scotty please pm me your details and I'll give you a call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tentonner Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 We put one on our 115hp yamaha on a 17ft Tabs cuddy cab and the result was outstanding, got on to the plane so much easier would recommend to anyone, except it seems the common wisdom is that each boat responds differently, but for us was a huge improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob roy Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Hi, My two cents worth, i had the se 300, on my previous boat, a Haines Signature 460br powered by a 4 stroke mercury 75hp, my son and i were belting along at about 35mph on the Port Hacking in very calm conditions when it flipped on to its side, i managed to pull back the throttle and it righted itself, scared the living crap out of me and my son, i wrote to Haines telling them what had happened [without mentioning that i had a foil fitted ] they replied saying that they reckoned i must have a foil fitted, and if i removed it that it would never happen again, it only happened once in almost 200 hours of boating, but its not worth the risk. Regards Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anroco Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 (edited) Great topic... I am in sorta the same situation as you, but my hydrofoil was alreay fitted when i purchased my boat. It is the SE Sport 200. I have a Stessl 4.3 with a 2 stroke Tohatsu 50hp. I get up on the plane real quick and it turns great, but, now reading through this topic i remembered a few things.... I have had a few times where i turned the boat, and i guess over steered it, and scared crap outta me ( but again i have had it over a year now and know how it handles,or got used to it or am more experienced as this is my firt boat ) and the other, i think it impacts on how heavy the steering feels ( may or may not be true ) as i have driven my mates boat ( cable steer, Steeber with a 50hp on the back ) and it seems lighter than mine. Do not know if this is because of 2 different boats or the foil but his has the wing type foil ?!?!?!?! Only one way to find out how much difference the foil does / does not make to my boat and if it affects the "weight" on the steering.. Mine foil bolts through the small fin at the bottom of the shaft, so if i find that it is better without the hydrofoil, i assume these holes would make no diff or effect the motor?? RiGHT ?!?!?! CHeeRS Antun Edited August 27, 2010 by Anroco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty1856 Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Great topic... I am in sorta the same situation as you, but my hydrofoil was alreay fitted when i purchased my boat. It is the SE Sport 200. I have a Stessl 4.3 with a 2 stroke Tohatsu 50hp. I get up on the plane real quick and it turns great, but, now reading through this topic i remembered a few things.... I have had a few times where i turned the boat, and i guess over steered it, and scared crap outta me ( but again i have had it over a year now and know how it handles,or got used to it or am more experienced as this is my firt boat ) and the other, i think it impacts on how heavy the steering feels ( may or may not be true ) as i have driven my mates boat ( cable steer, Steeber with a 50hp on the back ) and it seems lighter than mine. Do not know if this is because of 2 different boats or the foil but his has the wing type foil ?!?!?!?! Only one way to find out how much difference the foil does / does not make to my boat and if it affects the "weight" on the steering.. Mine foil bolts through the small fin at the bottom of the shaft, so if i find that it is better without the hydrofoil, i assume these holes would make no diff or effect the motor?? RiGHT ?!?!?! CHeeRS Antun I filled my holes with a two part apoxy (Defcon)sanded and painted all good just like new. On my new motor I am not even going to try it should have enough power to do all I need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogtooth Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Hi everyone , Well i have had permatrims on 2 boats that i owned and if your looking at planning quicker and carrying weight , Hydrofoils will make an improvement especially if your boat is underpowered . Sure you may lose 2 knots of top speed but the saving is that your boat will plain at a lower rpm . The first test boat was a savage kestral 4 metre with a 25 hp 2 stroke , this boat struggled to plane with 2 guys on board it was fitted with a permatrim and planed with 3 people with little effort and lots of fishing gear . The second boat was a 5.6 metre plate boat fitted with a 60 hp 2 stroke this boat really struggled loaded with gear untill a permatrim was fitted after that the boat performed very well . The motor was replaced to a 115 hp 4 stroke this year and on its first outing i was not happy at top speed trimmed down all the way , the boat porpised and carried on at top speed . A permatrim was fitted and the porpise problem was fixed and i was able to carry lots of weight in the bow compared to when no permatrim was fitted . Yes you can always weight shift around your boat and move stuff around but with a permatrim there is no need . As for following seas i have never had an issue with wild handling problems caused by permatrims and my steering is still light no need for hydraulic steering , Hope this helps .... Happy Permatrim owner Cheers Dogtooth..... John.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Tip Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Hi, My two cents worth, i had the se 300, on my previous boat, a Haines Signature 460br powered by a 4 stroke mercury 75hp, my son and i were belting along at about 35mph on the Port Hacking in very calm conditions when it flipped on to its side, i managed to pull back the throttle and it righted itself, scared the living crap out of me and my son, i wrote to Haines telling them what had happened [without mentioning that i had a foil fitted ] they replied saying that they reckoned i must have a foil fitted, and if i removed it that it would never happen again, it only happened once in almost 200 hours of boating, but its not worth the risk. Regards Roy Roy my mates 470df Haines with a yami 70 had a foil fitted when bought and when we would go out the same thing. We'd be cruising along and bang we were almost over on our side very scary with five in the boat. Yeh and when tubing we could only go right in a tight corner left just wouldn't turn. It is now off thank god and I'm sure it was going to bring us unstuck but now the foil is gone and the boat handles like it is on rails left or right. They are dangerous on some boats and not on others I'm sure but I would never reccomend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE SWEENEY Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Had one on my Haines 530 classic ,damm near flipped the boat over twice , very suddenly only doing about 3800 rpm completely carm water, contacted haines they told me the same thing ,take the foil off,i still have it if you would like to try it,mine was fitted to a 115 johnson ocean pro. Cheers Laurie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidboy Posted September 1, 2010 Author Share Posted September 1, 2010 I am now contemplating not having a foil after reading the boat instances above. I prefer to live and live up with a little less speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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