rockfisherman Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) In regards to 2 stroke outboards at the end of operation...Is it best to: A) Remove the fuel line whilst the motor is still running so all fuel in the motor gets used up or... Remove feul line and leave any fuel in the motor right where it is. ??? which is right? or wrong?? Thanks. Edited April 22, 2011 by rockfisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanfo Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 In regards to 2 stroke outboards at the end of operation...Is it best to: A) Remove the fuel line whilst the motor is still running so all fuel in the motor gets used up or... Remove feul line and leave any fuel in the motor right where it is. ??? which is right? or wrong?? Thanks. Hi rockfisherman, I always remove the fuel line after flushing the motor and allow it to burn any fuel left in the carbies. After the motor dies, try restarting it with the choke on to use any remaining fuel. By doing this it always seems to start easier as there isn't stale fuel in the line next time you go boating. hope this helps Stanfo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cut_loose Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 When i had a 2 stroke i use to like turning the motor off just before it ran out of fuel, you can often hear the motor about to die so flick the switch then. I read up somewhere that if you dry the carbies out, the air or something damages it or something, there's a reason behide it, i'm sure someone remembers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWV Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 There are 2 schools of thought on this. One is what was just mentioned to remove all fuel from the carbies because the oil and fuel will separate and block up the carbies and you'll have stale fuel in them as well(no problem with EFI), but they rarely change the fuel in the tank or line anyway so that defeats the stale fuel theory. People also say it aids in having cleaner spark plugs so easier to start. If spark plugs are change/clean/inspected as per manufactures instructions it won’t be a problem. The other way of thinking is that, you should never run an engine dry as for the last of revolutions that the engine is doing there is insufficient or no lubrication. Same as when you start it back up while the engine tries to pull the fuel though. People who think this way will pull the choke to stall the engine with a rich amount of fuel/oil going into the engine. In doing this, it will cover all the internal parts of the engine in oil resulting in a lubricated engine. Therefore leaving a protective coating of oil in it for storage and it will remain lubricated when you start it back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 I think if you take into consideration that it takes a few trys before it actually starts , these first few pulls of the cord would push fuel through minus the friction of the motor running continuously would be sufficient to lubricate the motor. NEXT QUESTION What would it take or is it possible to install an electric start?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Pull the choke to stall the engine with a rich amount of fuel/oil going into the engine. In doing this, it will cover all the internal parts of the engine in oil resulting in a lubricated engine. Therefore leaving a protective coating of oil in it for storage and it will remain lubricated when you start it back up. Pulling the choke if the motor is used regularly is not really necessary but if storing for a period of time then YES , as it provides good lubrication. Rockfisherman , Ask yourself the question , would you run your car engine without oil , if no then why run the outboard without oil . As for the carbys , it can take many months , perhaps even a year for the fuel to evaperate out of the carbys to the extent there would be a problem. Easiest solution , if the motor is not being used on a regular basis , fit the rabbit ears & give the motor a run every 3 / 4 months Elect Start Most motors can be retro fitted but the parts are very expensive. Basically the only place to purchase is from a dealer who sells your brand of outboard. Give them a call but be sitting down when you get the price Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Elect Start Most motors can be retro fitted but the parts are very expensive. Basically the only place to purchase is from a dealer who sells your brand of outboard. Give them a call but be sitting down when you get the price Geoff lol thanks mate ill be sure to... But the reason iv heard you need to evaporate all the feul for the motor is because it eats away at the gasket... Not sure myself if this is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musty Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Pulling the choke if the motor is used regularly is not really necessary but if storing for a period of time then YES , as it provides good lubrication. Rockfisherman , Ask yourself the question , would you run your car engine without oil , if no then why run the outboard without oil . As for the carbys , it can take many months , perhaps even a year for the fuel to evaperate out of the carbys to the extent there would be a problem. Easiest solution , if the motor is not being used on a regular basis , fit the rabbit ears & give the motor a run every 3 / 4 months Elect Start Most motors can be retro fitted but the parts are very expensive. Basically the only place to purchase is from a dealer who sells your brand of outboard. Give them a call but be sitting down when you get the price Geoff This bloke knows what he is talking about. If your motor is being used constantly you wont have many issues if any, ever. The longer u dont use it for the more u will find issues arise, its got nothing to do with the motor, brand, fuel, or system u use to flush it. Sitting idle does more damage than salt water alone could ever do. Keep that in mind and happy boating! Musty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunc333 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) and dont use any ethanol blended fuel as it can eat gaskets.what brand of engine and hp you trying to retro fit elec start to as some can and some cant be fitted. Edited April 22, 2011 by dunc333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 But the reason iv heard you need to evaporate all the fuel for the motor is because it eats away at the gasket... Not sure myself if this is true. As dunc333 said , "and dont use any ethanol blended fuel". If unable to find unleaded then will need to use premium Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWV Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 lol thanks mate ill be sure to... But the reason iv heard you need to evaporate all the feul for the motor is because it eats away at the gasket... Not sure myself if this is true. The old fuel wont eat the gasket away it will slowly dry it out. When the fuel is mixed with oil, it doesn't as when the fuel evaporates the oily residue is left so this is not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosterman Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 letting yr boat sit idle is def a bad thing as mentioned.. Geoff is spot on there... the crap we get thats called fuel can be real bad if left.. also a good fuel filter and change regularily.. here is what i found when i rebuilt my carbies... this is prob because before i got boat from my mate he let it sit for 18mths and also not replacing fuel filter enough. .. it surprised me it ran at all.. as for drying out the gaskets... i dont think its an issue but im not a mech..... im not a fan of running motor till fuel runs out as the pistons need lubrication and possible to score the bore with ring especially on older motors... for long time storage remove plugs spray oil mixture inside rotate flywheel by hand and drain carbies using drain plug/screw... just my 2 bobs worth... hope it helps... cheers....steve.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewgaffer Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) Good topic Rockfisherman! Thanks for posting these questions on fuel. The replies so far are interesting to say the least particularly the replies from Geoff and Stevie Roosterman So what is the final answer? What do we do here as far as the carbies are concerned when a boat is not being run under load regularly enough - should we risk damage being caused by dryness? It would be interesting to see what our sponsor Craig of Huett Marine has to say in a reply post in regards to using a preservative type of additive in the carburetter. Surely there would be an additive available to prevent the carby from glugging up or drying out once the stale fuel has been drained out of the tank?? As has been wisely said there are always those risky moments when running an outboard motor with the fuel supply to the carby switched off and again when restarting the outboard with fresh fuel. Rockfisherman I have included a link to one of my recent posts where I asked for advice on the use of stale fuel and fuel maintenance. The reples to your topic are important to me in that I should have included questions in regards to the carburettor. http://www.fishraider.com.au/Invision/index.php?showtopic=55258&st=0&p=397538&fromsearch=1entry397538 Cheers jewgaffer Edited April 23, 2011 by jewgaffer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) Thanks for that link Jewgaffer. Ok so it seems clear now, no need to burn all the fuel up in your 2 stroke outboard... But iv already done it twice a new outboard. Would I have caused any damage????? Edited April 23, 2011 by rockfisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosterman Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Good topic Rockfisherman! Thanks for posting these questions on fuel. The replies so far are interesting to say the least particularly the replies from Geoff and Stevie Roosterman So what is the final answer? What do we do here as far as the carbies are concerned when a boat is not being run under load regularly enough - should we risk damage being caused by dryness? It would be interesting to see what our sponsor Craig of Huett Marine has to say in a reply post in regards to using a preservative type of additive in the carburetter. Surely there would be an additive available to prevent the carby from glugging up or drying out once the stale fuel has been drained out of the tank?? As has been wisely said there are always those risky moments when running an outboard motor with the fuel supply to the carby switched off and again when restarting the outboard with fresh fuel. Rockfisherman I have included a link to one of my recent posts where I asked for advice on the use of stale fuel and fuel maintenance. The reples to your topic are important to me in that I should have included questions in regards to the carburettor. http://www.fishraide...=1 Cheers jewgaffer must of missed that post mate... been pretty busy lately.... seems like alot of interest in this sort of stuff so i might do a carbi rebuild/service topic up with things to be concerned about... in another life i was in the fuel game and there is alot of bulking agents used... some good some horrible for us boaties.. Ethanol is the main one the company i was with long before comonly known and when it is 20% the $ of petroleum base i will leave you to work out what goes on... keeping yr fuel fresh and buying from the least amount of places so if you get a bad batch you can get them to compensate you.(yes this is possible sometimes with proof of purchase).. i dont think there is a product made that will stop stale fuel being an issue... phase seperation occurs between the different components see this report.not the whole story and only if 10% "E" is used... even if not labelled good chance servo is adding "E" .. http://www.epa.gov/o...fg/waterphs.pdf my motor ran fine for quiet a while then when out at the fad we started to return in horrible seas my motor kept stalling.. with 2.5mtres of sloppy sharp chop it was a little concerning.. the things hidden i were not aware of caused this.. right choices in fuels,storage and service etc could have prevented my issue which luckily was a happy ending.. in hindsight i should of stripped carbies when i got boat but it kicked over first go everytime... food for thought guys.... great topic rockfisherman .. as for running yr new motor dry couple times i wouldt worry too much.. the main thing is lubrication and especially in older engines with crap buildup you can do a ring/piston.. bit extreme but a possibility.. running yr new motor in is a must though as everything is tight this is why higher oil level is used in this period... what motor do you have... im sure craig from huett marine will see this post and give his understandings to all this.. at end of the day gather all info ya can and make an informed choice as to what is needed... im just a handy guy and no mech but hopefully something is of use ... cheers....steve..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 Thanks roosterman *breathing a sigh of relief* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbink Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 if there is a chance you might not use the motor for a few months then I think it's a good idea to run the motor dry (though not if it's oil injected). The alternative is to run it on the flusher every 6 weeks or so or use a fuel preserver. The theory that running it dry will cause undue wear and damage just doesn't seem plausible to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray henry Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 if there is a chance you might not use the motor for a few months then I think it's a good idea to run the motor dry (though not if it's oil injected). The alternative is to run it on the flusher every 6 weeks or so or use a fuel preserver. The theory that running it dry will cause undue wear and damage just doesn't seem plausible to me. billfisher your spot on. ray . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosterman Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 i have usually just pulled plugs and winterised my motor that way as thats what a mate told me to do yrs ago when i got my firs boat... can someone add the reasoning behind running motor dry etc and why its safe/not safe to do... i assumed from what i was told that potentially it could be issue and seing as it only takes couple min to rip plugs out i always took safer option.. hopefully with 14k members surely theres a couple of mechanics that can add into this.... cheers...steve....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) As I mentioned in a previous post , Ask yourself the question , would you run your car engine without oil , if no , then why run the outboard without oil . Geoff To add to this , if the motor is run dry , think of the potential damage when next starting with dry cylinder walls , bearings etc. Geoff Edited April 23, 2011 by Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWV Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Never run an engine dry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbink Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 (edited) Never run an engine dry! I'm not convinced it will do any harm. Yes the oil is in the fuel on a premix two stroke but the motor will not run without fuel. Ie once the fuel runs out the motor will shut down instantaneously. What I would be more worried about is corrosion and sticking of pistons and rings in the cylinders during storage due to lack of lubrication. It would seem that enough residual oil remains because I haven't had a motor sieze this way after running it dry. PS my outboard mechanic told me to run my motor dry after cleaning my carby of crud. Edited April 25, 2011 by billfisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWV Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 It isn’t going to do them any good. More than likely it will never be the cause of an engine to seize but it isn’t going to help the life expectancy of the engine. It will scratch the bore each time it goes though the cycle without lubrication maybe only very slightly which won’t be readily apparent. Over the life of the engine it may well shorten the life, quite a lot. Yeah I completely agree that corrosion is the biggest issue here, after all it happens to just about everything in the saltwater environment. There are some very good outboard mechanics out there but I find a lot of them are just failed car mechanics who don't know the pointy end from the blunt end of a boat. It is not uncommon for people who "winterise" there boats to spray oil directly into the cabies which will completely cover all of the internals of the engine which will evenly stall the outboard, then drain the carbies. For short term storage I think it is by far a better method to just turn the engine off or stall it with the choke for slightly longer periods of storage, and if you’re that worried about the carbies just drain them. I never let my outboards or motorbike sit there for over a month without starting them and getting them up to running temp and I have never had any issues what so ever. They start straight away and run fine. It only takes about 10 minutes a month to do this and if people could find this time in their busy life’s these days there would be a lot less problems with their toys. But as I initally said there are two schools of thought on this topic and I think there always will be until some research is done on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 All well and good we have our opinions on the matter, with valid points for both arguments ( personally I m going with not running it dry , which I belive has the most plausible argument behind it ).... Although iv heard the opposite coming from mechanics and marine mechanics.... If a plumber tells you to maintain your pipes a certain way are you going to argue with him? If these mechanics can turn around with confidence and tell you run it dry, they obviously belive that it's not going to harm the engine enough for it to be an issue. Who does have the last say on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWV Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 You do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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