Live bait tank battery drainage

[hhakan]

Hi guys my first post here and hopefully wont be my last [emoji3] .

So on the weekend i found a little time to make myself a live bait tank for my boat. All the pumps and stuff were already on their from the previos owner i just needed the tank basically. So i head down to bunning and look for something that will be suitable (yes i know i can buy specific tanks for the job i just would rather spend the extra money on new fishing equipment) and to my supprise i found a 100l wheelie bin that fits the bill perfectly. Ill add photos for reference.

So now to my real question. Should i be keeping my engine on while i run the pump for the tank while i am fishing. Or will it be okay to leave the engine off? Just dont want to go out on the weekend and be calling for rescue when i cant get the engine started due to a drained battery.

So the rundown is i have something like a 700lph bilge pump. And the boat is running duel marine deep cycle batteries( the main one is a big one and the second is slighly smaller in size)

Thanks in advanced

And tight lines

Hakan

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[Geoff]

Pumps draw very little power & should not be a problem however , my concern is the weight that bin will have on the back of the boat when it is filled with water.

I think u will find the bin will hold a lot more than 100lt

I appreiciate the cost aspect but why so big ???

[zmk1962]

Hi Hakan, we all have a first post ! Welcome "King of kings"! (...anyone that wants an explanation as to my greeting please pm me - he he he)

Mate, I don't know of anyone that keeps their engine running just to power the bait pump - it's a bit of overkill. I'll explain my set up and you can draw some conclusions from how you want to run yours.

I have 3 (640CCA) batteries across the back. Each is on an isolator switch. I run all the electricals and can start the motor from any battery or any combination of batteries. Similarly when the motor is running I can charge any combination of batteries or just the one I am running from. Typically I run off the newest (prime) battery, and only when it starts to struggle cranking the motor do I swap to the 2nd (backup battery). By run - I mean everything is drawing from that one battery. On a typical day with long offshore runs during which the battery is being recharged I rarely have to swap to the backup, unlike the days where we fish the harbour or rivers when there is more stationary time and more motor starts.

You can run your 2 battery set up in a similar way - provided both of your batteries are able to start the motor. Use one until it is discharged and move to the other - set up your charging circuit so that when you have started your motor you can re-charge one or both. Obviously if you are down to 1 battery, you may want to limit the electrical load until you have had time to recharge your 2nd. My Merc puts out 40Amps on the charging circuit - you may want to check your motor to get a sense of how much charge is going back into your batteries while under way.

The third battery is what I call my utilities battery. It is the oldest battery - this is the one I use when I pull up for a long overnight session - it runs everything all night (bait pump, night lights, sounder, deck lights and at one stage even a little TV for the kids in the cabin) on full overnight trips this battery drains to zero - especially in winter. OK my 3 way battery set up is overkill - I started with 2 - and ended up with 3 because one of the original 2 batteries was still good and I was doing a lot of overnighters at that time...... and I admit I am a bit anal and always wanted at least one charged battery for the motor.

Regarding calculating how long your battery will last running just the bait pump - here's how I would do it - perhaps one of the members with an electrical background can chip in :

1) Check the capacity rating of your batteries - you are looking for the Amp hours number

2) Check your bait pump Watt (W) rating and convert that to Amps (A). Use a calculator like the one here http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Watt_to_Amp_Calculator.htm, or the formula I=P/V I=AMPS, P=Watts, V=volts (usually 12V in your boat DC circuit)

3) Divide the Battery Amp hours by the bait pump draw in Amps and the resulting number is the number of hours that your battery should roughly last

BTW, that bin looks really big - you might have to use your sabiki jig to recatch your live bait! Are you sure you want to run around with an extra 100kg of weight on your transom - it will affect how your boat rides. My live bait tank is about 35L and I run a 350GPH pump for circulation when stationary, or just off the stainless bent tube pickup when under way.

[boattart]

I did see those bins at Bunnings recently and thy are a small version of the council bins and are only 100 lt and should work fine as long as it's well secured in position. Full is 100kg or the weight of one person so if it starts moving around the deck it can really destablise the boat.

[antonywardle]

The good news is that the ETECs have a high output alternator so you shouldn't have any issues charging your batteries.

1 litre of water is 1 kilo, so if its full then that will be, as said above 100 litres. You want to make sure its tied in really well

I have a deep cycle marine battery that has 120A/Hrs. So If I used that from full charge with your 700lph bilge pump, I'd

be able to run it in theory for (assuming 3amps) 40 hours before it was flat. I can't find a 700L so I'm assuming 700GPH

(which is more) and a rule pump draws 2.8amps.

How many batteries do you have? If its just the one, then consider taking out a portable jump starter pack for piece of mind.

Good on you for having a go!

[boattart]

How many batteries do you have? If its just the one, then consider taking out a portable jump starter pack for piece of mind.

I think any boat and in particular trailer boats should carry a jumpstater anyway. $100 odd dollars peace of mind.

[will_l]

Hi Hakan, we all have a first post ! Welcome "King of kings"! (...anyone that wants an explanation as to my greeting please pm me - he he he)

Mate, I don't know of anyone that keeps their engine running just to power the bait pump - it's a bit of overkill. I'll explain my set up and you can draw some conclusions from how you want to run yours.

I have 3 (640CCA) batteries across the back. Each is on an isolator switch. I run all the electricals and can start the motor from any battery or any combination of batteries. Similarly when the motor is running I can charge any combination of batteries or just the one I am running from. Typically I run off the newest (prime) battery, and only when it starts to struggle cranking the motor do I swap to the 2nd (backup battery). By run - I mean everything is drawing from that one battery. On a typical day with long offshore runs during which the battery is being recharged I rarely have to swap to the backup, unlike the days where we fish the harbour or rivers when there is more stationary time and more motor starts.

You can run your 2 battery set up in a similar way - provided both of your batteries are able to start the motor. Use one until it is discharged and move to the other - set up your charging circuit so that when you have started your motor you can re-charge one or both. Obviously if you are down to 1 battery, you may want to limit the electrical load until you have had time to recharge your 2nd. My Merc puts out 40Amps on the charging circuit - you may want to check your motor to get a sense of how much charge is going back into your batteries while under way.

The third battery is what I call my utilities battery. It is the oldest battery - this is the one I use when I pull up for a long overnight session - it runs everything all night (bait pump, night lights, sounder, deck lights and at one stage even a little TV for the kids in the cabin) on full overnight trips this battery drains to zero - especially in winter. OK my 3 way battery set up is overkill - I started with 2 - and ended up with 3 because one of the original 2 batteries was still good and I was doing a lot of overnighters at that time...... and I admit I am a bit anal and always wanted at least one charged battery for the motor.

Regarding calculating how long your battery will last running just the bait pump - here's how I would do it - perhaps one of the members with an electrical background can chip in :

1) Check the capacity rating of your batteries - you are looking for the Amp hours number

2) Check your bait pump Watt (W) rating and convert that to Amps (A). Use a calculator like the one here http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Watt_to_Amp_Calculator.htm, or the formula I=P/V I=AMPS, P=Watts, V=volts (usually 12V in your boat DC circuit)

3) Divide the Battery Amp hours by the bait pump draw in Amps and the resulting number is the number of hours that your battery should roughly last

BTW, that bin looks really big - you might have to use your sabiki jig to recatch your live bait! Are you sure you want to run around with an extra 100kg of weight on your transom - it will affect how your boat rides. My live bait tank is about 35L and I run a 350GPH pump for circulation when stationary, or just off the stainless bent tube pickup when under way.

Great summary, thanks for that. I've also been wondering about the way to utuilise dual batteries.

Do many people charge up their batteries at home? I've never had a flat battery and if I want one more charged I just leave the engine running when I'm anchored and fishing but it might be more economical to just get a charger for the batteries.

Edited December 16, 2015 by mrsswordfisherman

[zmk1962]

Yup I charge mine at home. Its can be a pain if each time you have to undo the battery boxes and put on the clips and then re-assemble etc etc

Looking for the easy way out I put in some work upfront (I am comfortable with wiring as I played apprentice to my sparkie dad for years).

Here is my setup:

I have a 4 pin female plug wired into my batteries (3 positive and 1 common negative) - the plug is screwed in place high up on the inside of transom. This 4 pin plug attaches via a male 4 pin plug fitted on an 8m cable to a switch box that is connected to a trickle charger. The switch box is located in my garage. It has 3 switches so that I can charge any combination of the batteries. I also have a battery tester wired into the switch box so I can check the voltage of each battery individually. I know I get losses from the long run of DC cable but heck - I figured it was better then nothing.

Now once at home I connect my charging cable (4 pin plugs) and I am done - I can check / charge any combination of batteries from the comfort of my garage.

Lead acid batteries last longest if they are kept charged. Running them flat and leaving them flat will see a significantly reduced life span (that's another chemical reaction - and I wont bore people with that one). My mobile mechanic (who does a great job of checking the boat/trailer end to end) recently told me that I really need to change my "utility" battery - it was holding charge - one cell was staring to go - but his real concern was that it was 10yrs old !!! He had no experience with such old batteries - they weren't supposed to last that long.

[antonywardle]

I've been charging my batteries by connecting my charger to the leads inside the

engine then using the 1-2-both-off switch to control which battery gets charged.

Seems to work well for me

Edited December 15, 2015 by antonywardle

[VViCKiD]

Seems 100L is way overkill. I think its a waste of space and will also make it difficult to actually catch ur livies.

[hhakan]

Thanks for the responses guys. Regards to king of kings. I think you have the wrong Hakan. But i am working on getting his title lol. You can call me king of rats at the moment

Regarding the tank i do realise its overkill especially concidering how long it took to fill it the other day. It was just a little DIY project to keep me out of trouble. And a trail an error process now. I wanted something tall enough i can just put the overflow straight out from the back without attaching it somewere. I have a strap to secure it and with the weight it does not move once strapped. The weight is a issue like everyone is mentioning but nothing that is really concerning. It will be great in rough sea with all the weight on the back i reckon anyway.

And the jumpstarter is a great idea. Why couldn't i think of that haha

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[zmk1962]

...the way it was pointed out to me by a good mate of mine... a Kan = king and HA = highest.... so a HA-KAN is the highest of kings...infact the KING of KINGS !! ..

... anyway on our last trip out he also lucked out on the only kings that matter to a fisho... and at best was just good enough to hold the title of prince of rats ....but the others on board were leaning towards the "queen" of rats... but we wont go into all the trash talk that goes on board.

Captains rules: 1) What's said on the ocean, stays on the ocean 2) The captains always right, 3) If he is wrong refer to rule 1-2 etc.... he he he.

Best of luck with the live bait tank...

[Geoff]

The other problem u will have the lid does not seal & considering the height of the over flow u are going to water sloshing around , coming out the top & into the boat

Hope u have a good bilge pump preferably with a float switch

Geoff

[brad_tate]

Interesting thread, going into a number of areas, thanks for the comments from all. My thoughts are:

1. I run a two batteries, one crank/house and a deep cycle (DC) for the Minn-Kota. I use a DC-DC charger to keep the DC to topped up. I keep leads onboard so I can start the outboard from the DC if needed.

2. Your wheelie bin live well is really high, and the slosh of the contents poses two problems. A) bad balance, so you need it tied in securely, high and low. B ) slop. I suggest you fit some form of baffles about 3/4 the way up to stop the slop washing over the top and onto the deck. That should also help with the balance.

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Edited December 15, 2015 by Tastee

[VViCKiD]

I think I'd b better off finding a container with lid that can fit in between 2 stands of ur bait board. U might even be able to make one out of that wheelie bin u just bought. Then bolt it to that bait board. It will be able to over flow without risk of shifting around. Not sure it will get in the way of ur outboard trimming though. So check this first. Alternatively, put it to the side of the bait board

Edited December 15, 2015 by VViCKiD

[hhakan]

I think I'd b better off finding a container with lid that can fit in between 2 stands of ur bait board. U might even be able to make one out of that wheelie bin u just bought. Then bolt it to that bait board. It will be able to over flow without risk of shifting around. Not sure it will get in the way of ur outboard trimming though. So check this first. Alternatively, put it to the side of the bait board

Not sure why you are so concerned about saving half a meter squared space on a unfishable area of the boat. I have no issues reaching the bait board while its installed aswell. The only thing im concidering changing is the lid to make it water tight

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[Geoff]

What set up have u installed to drain the bin at the end of the day ???

[boattart]

Maybe to water seal the lid you could try some rubber sealant around the lip use an occy strap from the handle to a couple of hooks around the edge. If you are able to lower your overflow outlet a few inches may help reduce slop too.

[fragmeister]

Hi Hakan, we all have a first post ! Welcome "King of kings"! (...anyone that wants an explanation as to my greeting please pm me - he he he)

Mate, I don't know of anyone that keeps their engine running just to power the bait pump - it's a bit of overkill. I'll explain my set up and you can draw some conclusions from how you want to run yours.

I have 3 (640CCA) batteries across the back. Each is on an isolator switch. I run all the electricals and can start the motor from any battery or any combination of batteries. Similarly when the motor is running I can charge any combination of batteries or just the one I am running from. Typically I run off the newest (prime) battery, and only when it starts to struggle cranking the motor do I swap to the 2nd (backup battery). By run - I mean everything is drawing from that one battery. On a typical day with long offshore runs during which the battery is being recharged I rarely have to swap to the backup, unlike the days where we fish the harbour or rivers when there is more stationary time and more motor starts.

You can run your 2 battery set up in a similar way - provided both of your batteries are able to start the motor. Use one until it is discharged and move to the other - set up your charging circuit so that when you have started your motor you can re-charge one or both. Obviously if you are down to 1 battery, you may want to limit the electrical load until you have had time to recharge your 2nd. My Merc puts out 40Amps on the charging circuit - you may want to check your motor to get a sense of how much charge is going back into your batteries while under way.

The third battery is what I call my utilities battery. It is the oldest battery - this is the one I use when I pull up for a long overnight session - it runs everything all night (bait pump, night lights, sounder, deck lights and at one stage even a little TV for the kids in the cabin) on full overnight trips this battery drains to zero - especially in winter. OK my 3 way battery set up is overkill - I started with 2 - and ended up with 3 because one of the original 2 batteries was still good and I was doing a lot of overnighters at that time...... and I admit I am a bit anal and always wanted at least one charged battery for the motor.

Regarding calculating how long your battery will last running just the bait pump - here's how I would do it - perhaps one of the members with an electrical background can chip in :

1) Check the capacity rating of your batteries - you are looking for the Amp hours number

2) Check your bait pump Watt (W) rating and convert that to Amps (A). Use a calculator like the one here http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Watt_to_Amp_Calculator.htm, or the formula I=P/V I=AMPS, P=Watts, V=volts (usually 12V in your boat DC circuit)

3) Divide the Battery Amp hours by the bait pump draw in Amps and the resulting number is the number of hours that your battery should roughly last

BTW, that bin looks really big - you might have to use your sabiki jig to recatch your live bait! Are you sure you want to run around with an extra 100kg of weight on your transom - it will affect how your boat rides. My live bait tank is about 35L and I run a 350GPH pump for circulation when stationary, or just off the stainless bent tube pickup when under way.

Thats a well thought out battery setup and a great reply.

I would just add this as someone with an electrical/electronics backgound.

Batteries are complex enough but the variable such as age of battery, treatment of battery and the requirements of the boat

motor and running gear can make a huge difference to battery life and battery charge state.

As a rule of thumb I don't discharge to less than 50% capacity so factor that into your calculation.

This improves battery life signifciantly and if you can, charge them at home to make sure the are fully charged.

The two biggest killers of batteries are running them dead flat and not charging them right up asap.

Cheers

Jim

[hhakan]

Just a update if anyone was intrested. The tank outperformed my expectations. Like i said only thing that needs modification is the lid. And ill go with boatarts idea(thanks mate).

Unfortunately that was the only highlight of the night. Had approx 20 yellow tails and a freakishly large mullet swimming happily all night.(beginning to wonder if jewfish have become endangered at the hawkesbury system)

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[hhakan]

What set up have u installed to drain the bin at the end of the day ???

I have a large bung on the bottom

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[antonywardle]

and what do you have on the barrel?

lol

[hhakan]

and what do you have on the barrel?

lol

I was originally going to use that. But was not happy with the hight

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