Swell cut-off for your boat?

[locodave]

Just wondering what is the swell height + wind combo when you just say no - not going out in that?

Size of boat: 

Conditions: 

[frankS]

As a general rule it's not the swell that puts me off it's the amount of chop on the water. If there are whitecaps forming before I launch I make plans to stay inside, If whitecaps form while I am out there I may put up with it for a while but then maybe come straight in. In saying that I have been way out in some horrific conditions and as long as you are a capable boat handler you would be surprised what a boat can take and still be safe. Boat size anything from a 14' tinny to a 34' cruiser, you just have to weigh each day on it's merits.

I would suggest IF you are new to boating ( as I gather you may be to ask this question ) I would say whitecaps are a good indication as a turning point, but don't be afraid to stay out a little longer as you gain more experience and after a while it becomes second nature to make the decision whether to go or stay.

Hope some of this helps.

 

Frank

[JonD]

Down here I have the Narooma bar to contend with so have bought and sold many boats trying to find a small boat that can handle choppy conditions but still be kept in my garage and easy to tow all over Aus. The best boats for the rough have all been glass hulls from Haines,Haines signatures, Formula, seafarer etc. I also get use a couple of commercial boats Eden craft and Cootacraft.

Each year these summer school hols have been frustrating due to the seasonal summer winds, previous years I have only managed to get offshore a couple of times through the 6 week period.

I now own something I said I would never own a 5m zodiac. Now unless its extremely bad I can head, often even when the charters cant. In fact Ive put 365hrs on it in 1.5 years.

Swell isn't really a problem as I was out on the shelf a few days ago in big swells that looked like giant moving sand dunes. Big close chop is a pain but this is quite rare unless I get caught by a strong westerly, in this case I hide behind Montague for it to blow itself out. Ive been caught in 30+ knts of southerly on many occasions and run home with a grin on my face having fun at 40+kmh. 

Yesterday there was a fair amount of chop at Montague, combining that with the strong current ripping around the NE corner of the island the water was pretty choppy. A section where current chop and swell on the NE corner was being avoided by all boats except ours. One boat did venture in that took several waves over the top landing them in deep water so to speak!! chatting with them back at the ramp they said they had never been so scared and how amazed our little rib could handle the conditions.

I did have the gopro running which Ive pulled a few screen shots from, due to the wide angle nature of gopro cameras the sea always looks much flatter than it really is. We were able to fish quite comfortably in those conditions.

 

Jon

Driving up the face of one.

[PaddyT]

Jon- your a mad bugger I reckon!- i guess the advantages of the RIBS are that they just bob like a cork , but what you say is correct- as long as you dont have a bar to cross swell is only a worry if you get seasick (i reckon some folk feel worse in long period big swell that in a bit of nasty chop ) My boat is a 5.4 M TABS centre console. It is a typical AL boat in that it bangs and jolts a bit into the sea but it has very predictable down sea running characteristics (unlike some). I brought my boat back from Sth Solitary Island to Coffs in 30+ knots of NorEaster one afternoon- no probs, pushing into it would of been very nasty I think. I use voyage planning as my main form of safety- if the Noreeaster is predicted then I head north in the morning , if a Sthly is due to blow then I head south-coming home with the breeze is a lot easier than trying to bash into it. Having said that last year on a solo marlin trip I had been up at the baitstation all morning with whitecaps starting to form from the NE when I decided to run down to the Peak (about a 25 k run), hooked 2 marlin and had to bash back to the harbour in 20 knots of NE- i was perfectly safe but got very wet. Learn the capabilities of your boat and ere on the side of caution. 

[JonD]

17 minutes ago, PaddyT said:

Jon- your a mad bugger I reckon!- i guess the advantages of the RIBS are that they just bob like a cork , but what you say is correct- as long as you dont have a bar to cross swell is only a worry if you get seasick

I'm not the mad one, my daughter was in the water among several hammerheads and whalers hand feeding kings!!...she did end up dropping her stripie head when a bronze decided it wanted it.

[PaddyT]

Nice-we had a couple of dud days after the New Year and my 21 year old decided to break the curse and do a "bollocky" swim 7 km out to sea- I was laughing so hard I nearly cried , unfortunatlely it didnt break the curse!!!

[big Neil]

1 hour ago, JonD said:

I'm not the mad one, my daughter was in the water among several hammerheads and whalers hand feeding kings!!...she did end up dropping her stripie head when a bronze decided it wanted it.

Be honest JonD, you AND your daughter are crackers. But as long as you survive and we keep reading your exploits, nothing will change, eh? BN

[JonD]

18 minutes ago, big Neil said:

Be honest JonD, you AND your daughter are crackers. But as long as you survive and we keep reading your exploits, nothing will change, eh? BN

 

Haha, I do take safety pretty seriouse but truthfully our biggest dangers tend to come from people not the enviromeant. Even with a 60-60cm dive flag and a bright orange float on a 30m fluoro pink float line you still get people troll lures over the top of you in sanctuarys while she's doing surveys. Getting tangled in braid is also high on the danger list while swimming among kings in the sanctuary, there are so many fish trailing braid with jigs hanging from the fish. She has now learnt the hard way not to try and hold onto it!!!..think this has been the season of tourists getting flogged by kings on micro jig gear.

Unfortunatly I rarely get in now as the wind blows the boat away to quick as well as 4 knots of current that's been pumping lately. We are seeing plenty of fish outside their range, even jigging a few rainbow runners at Monty.

Back on track with boat size in relation to weather, a mate fishing close to use in a decent sized Bertram back when I had my 540 signature had two waves go over his stern almost sinking the boat, while my lighter boat just bobbed up with the waves. That same day a Bermagui charter cat sank when the crew opened the back door to bring a fish onboard at the same time as getting hit from big waves stern on.

 

[big Neil]

Certainly can be dangerous out there on the ocean. I suppose the definitive answer is "even if it's marginally dangerous, don't go". Nothing in fishing is worth risking your life for. BN

[kingfishbig]

Don't forget that the weather can change for the worse once you are out there (and not always according to forecast) and the further out you are the less you are able to out run it. Perhaps the question 'how far out you should go in relation to boat size' is just as important. 

[kingfishbig]

You might find this guide by Roads and Maritime of use:

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/safety-rules/before-boating/wave-heights.html

There are safety limits and as you can see the smaller the boat the smaller the seas it will safely handle (common sense really). The major risk if you push the limits is capsizing, which is a big cause of boating fatalities. Small boat are prone to broaching in following seas which can lead to capsize, or they may lose power, get swamped etc.

 

 

[harold]

if you are not sure if it is safe then don't go. There will be plenty of other day you can go fishing.

[PaddyT]

54 minutes ago, noelm said:

Small boats are no more prone to broaching than a big boat, design determines performance, a 10' Surf Club rubber duck, powered by a 25HP tiller steer has surfed many a wave, and gone out in really big seas...to say a certain size boat is better or safer than another is simply too general.

Dead right Noel- seen footage of a trawler getting rolled on a bar because he broached  , too many people want to attach hard and fast rules to boating when in reality you are dealing with an ever moving surface and ever changing environment

[kingfishbig]

6 hours ago, PaddyT said:

Dead right Noel- seen footage of a trawler getting rolled on a bar because he broached  , too many people want to attach hard and fast rules to boating when in reality you are dealing with an ever moving surface and ever changing environment

Not surprising as trawlers are slow compared to the planing boats we fish out of so can't stay on the back of a fast moving wave. Likewise the surf ducks are a very different sort of craft as they don't have sharp bows or V - shaped hulls so tend to resist broaching. But getting back to the boats we fish from, waterline length is important as the greater the length the less likely the bow is to dig into the trough between waves.  Also a lot of small boats (ie 4.2m and under) don't have power trim and tilt which is a big asset in following seas (you can trim the bow up). 

Edited January 25, 2017 by kingfishbig
spelling

[rickmarlin62]

the hardest part with this discussion is not the size of vessel but the experience needed to operate in anything other than flat seas..many larger boats come to grief just as easy as smaller vessels..myself and I imagine plenty of other raiders have long hrs racked up at sea..this experience tells us when to turn round and not go to sea..for new boaters this is harder with a mixture of bravado and not being able to read the sea or know their boats capabilities in a bad sea..if in any doubt watch other boats if possible or radio coastal patrol or the nearest marine rescue to you and ASK if conditions are favourable..its better to sit inside the heads and wish you were out at sea than be in the sea wishing you were inside the heads...let common sense prevail and don't risk your life or anyone with you or the poor bastards that have to try and rescue you..sorry for the rant but I have helped save too many people over the years and you don't forget the bad endings...rick

[rickmarlin62]

spot on noel   I run to the shelf in a 4.8 vsea with confidence in mine and the boats ability but we have some members in our fishing club that wont go outside in 5.8 mtr plate boats...being able to read weather conditions and know there are no surprise fronts coming helps...its called learning and everyone has to do it..rick

[JonD]

Adventurer Hans Tholstrup did a trip from Darwin to Japan in a Haines signature 540f covering 7000km. I remember being so impressed by his interview where he spent days and nights in 45 knot winds where he needed to partially flood the hull to keep in on the water. I was so impressed I bought the exact model and engine, must admit I've had several other signatures since but will never buy another since owning the rib.

 

Here's another adventurer that recently did a trip around Aus in a 6.5m boat, it's an interesting read of big seas and no sleep. http://www.boatsales.com.au/editorial/news/2016/fishing/around-australia-record-in-a-6-5-metre-trailerboat-58379

Edited January 25, 2017 by JonD

[bessell1955]

I would suggest that you have a number of trips with some-one who is very competent in boating skills.  There is nothing better than experience.

[Raymondo]

I think the skippers experience, attitude, bravado etc have the biggest bearing on safety rather than vessel size, but of course mother nature can school any skipper/vessel.  What often gets me is people putting to sea in un seaworthy boats and without the required safety gear, then marine rescue or the like have to risk there safety bringing them back. I recently test rode in a RHIB on Jons endorsement and was really impressed on the offshore handling . I'm sure a experienced skipper at the healm of a RHIB would give the weather limits of trailer boating a good nudge.

[kingfishbig]

Yes and experience can lead to overconfidence and complacency. It happens in rock fishing when experienced fishermen get swept off the rocks. So Locodave's original post has some merit, ie having some sort of limit with regards to conditions you will go out in. As I said having a limit how far you will go out, irrespective of weather forecast,  is not a bad idea either.