Cold starting problems 1999 Yamaha 60 HP

[Snowyandsalty]

Hey there. This prime start system is quite well known for getting blocked and not working. The bottom or middle carby (can’t remember which one sorry) will have a priming set up that will most probably need to be stripped and cleaned. It’s behind the oil tank. The little red lever is the manual override for the system and is supposed to be there in case the electric solenoid fails. To get to it you will have to remove the air intake setup, it’s mounting plate which is held on by the nuts that keep the carby’s in place etc and pull the carby off. Check the diaphragm of the primer for any tears and carefully strip it down and clean it out with carby cleaner. You will need to use some compressed air to blow out the holes that all the fuel passes through. I did this on my 70hp recently and got away with using the little cans of compressed air used to clean computer keyboards. They are available from office works. While you have it apart, check the solenoid works by hooking up 12v and seeing if the little pin moves in. Or you can check the ohm reading of the solenoid if you have a multimeter. I suggest buying a service manual off eBay, and take photos at each step for you to refer back to. After cleaning out mine when I experienced the same problem as you, it now starts within 10seconds everytime

if you are in the shire, I could swing past and give you a hand sometime if you like.

hope this helps

Corey.

[bizzyb]

On 12/12/2017 at 12:09 PM, Snowyandsalty said:

 

if you are in the shire, I could swing past and give you a hand sometime if you like.

hope this helps

Corey.

Thanks so much for the offer Corey, however I am in Penrith and the boat is currently in Ingleburn, both a long way from the shire!

[bizzyb]

On 11/12/2017 at 4:18 PM, zmk1962 said:

Back home now and able to work of laptop (better browsing than on iPhone).

Here's a great clip on Yamaha Prime Start diagnosis and repair....

Z

This guy is indeed awesome! So detailed yet so natural. 

We'll, I've tested the pin, resistance was a bit higher than suggested in this particular video, however the pin did move. The only thing I could see amiss was some yellowish gunk caking the pin hixh I cleaned off.

 

I've also taken the #2 carby off and it looks very clean except for some black stuff around the rim of the membrane (sorry I forgot to take a photo. This could be a carbon build up or just the gasket deteriorated. 

Given I couldn't see anything glaringly obvious, I'm going to take these two parts to the Yamaha service shop today and see if they can find something I couldn't (or at least to get a new gasket).

Failing that, I'm not sure what else could be the matter. The only additional clue is that the boys said that after realising the fuel tank air valve was closed during the last attempted startup they took the whole cap off and then she started. 

This could just be coincidence tho as they had already been trying for a while before taking this action. 

[zmk1962]

11 minutes ago, bizzyb said:

some yellowish gunk caking the pin hixh I cleaned off.

Ok if the prime start pin is operating correctly....yellow gunk in the pin hole may mean the enrichment port is blocked with the gunk .... suggest you clean the carbie with carbie cleaner to make sure all the ports and jets are clean and clear.....you should be able to see carbie cleaner squirting into the main throat as you work through cleaning all the ports.

12 minutes ago, bizzyb said:

realising the fuel tank air valve was closed during the last attempted startup they took the whole cap off and then she started.

...ok this starts to suggest your issue may be the product of several problems. I had cold start problems with my carbie 15 Aux. Working through the following solved them for me:

1) carbie cleaned

2) enrichment injector fixed and adjusted - in your case the prime start

3) I have an underfloor tank - replaced fuel tank breather vent hose found it was kinked - impeding fuel suction esp when the tank was full 

4) primer bulb replaced and check valve (one way valve) installed in supply fuel line . I had a 2+m run of fuel line from the tank to  water separating filter to the Aux. I suspected that the fuel was running back to the tank drawing against the flow to the carbie -all ok once the motor started as when running it developed enough suction to feed itself - but starting was a different issue. Maybe the primer bulb check valve had failed or there was just too much fuel in the line for the start up suction to work. Putting a check valve in the supply fuel line ensured the fuel went only one way toward the motor.

After doing all this - two to three cranks and my motor starts.

Cheers

Zoran

[dunc333]

when i have fuel problems on my outboards ie hard to start etc ,i use a 5litre tote tank and connect straight to outboard  direct  so i know its getting fresh fuel etc this often tells me to where the problem lies and counts out your boat fuel supply if problem still occurs,look in to motor  or if runs well you know to look at the fuel supply system ie tank fuel lines etc

Edited January 23, 2018 by dunc333

[bizzyb]

Hey everyone. 

Sorry for being slack and not getting back to you with an update. 

I took the pin and carby to the lbs. Nothing wrong with the pin. However the carby was very dirty apparently.  He cleaned it up and once everything went back together, we finally have good starting!

I haven't tried it at 4am in 5deg weather yet but I suspect it will be ok now. 

Based on this I imagine a combination of poor maintenance from previous owner and lack of use causing fuel to sit in the bowl for long periods has gunked everything up. 

 

For anyone having the same problems, next time id probably spray it down with carby cleaner first and see if that clears up the problem. 

These days we run the motor every 2 weeks to endure no old fuel building up. 

 

Thanks to everyone for all your advice!

 

[dunc333]

stu is a real gun and a pleasure to watch he has lots of overseas fans and growing and hes just up the road at dangar island he used to be a bso once upon a time cheers dunc333

[zmk1962]

On 5/18/2018 at 2:29 PM, bizzyb said:

Hey everyone. 

Sorry for being slack and not getting back to you with an update. 

I took the pin and carby to the lbs. Nothing wrong with the pin. However the carby was very dirty apparently.  He cleaned it up and once everything went back together, we finally have good starting!

I haven't tried it at 4am in 5deg weather yet but I suspect it will be ok now. 

Based on this I imagine a combination of poor maintenance from previous owner and lack of use causing fuel to sit in the bowl for long periods has gunked everything up. 

 

For anyone having the same problems, next time id probably spray it down with carby cleaner first and see if that clears up the problem. 

These days we run the motor every 2 weeks to endure no old fuel building up. 

 

Thanks to everyone for all your advice!

 

I disconnect my fuel line towards the end of the flushing procedure and let the motor run the carbie dry. Very little gunk build up with this procedure.

Cheers Zoran

[bizzyb]

2 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

I disconnect my fuel line towards the end of the flushing procedure and let the motor run the carbie dry. Very little gunk build up with this procedure.

Cheers Zoran

No issues?  I was worried that running it dry on fuel can do damage?  

[zmk1962]

I have been doing it for >20yrs. No issues.  Initially on a Tohatsu 40hp 2St and now on a Mariner 15hp 4St.

Look this has been debated for years so I suggest you research a bit more to make your own decision. When I did the research it fell about 50:50 for and against.... that included opinions from boaties and mechanics and it told me there was no conclusive proof one way or other.  Without a doubt, the best thing for outboards is to run them regularly - every few days - then fuel stays fresh, seals don't dry out etc.  But sometimes that's just not practical and a month or two can easily slip by.

For high performance 2st (eg bikes, carts ) definitely do not run dry - these engines operate at the top end of material tolerances - the 2St fuel mix provides lubrication and as fuel leans out it burns hotter - so the concern is you can damage the cylinder and bore.  

But small - medium size outboards are not high performance engines and also we are talking about idling - so the contra argument is you are actually idling (not under load) and you are operating well down the scale on the engine tolerances charts (at the low end of heat, at the low end of load etc).  There's about 3min of run time in my fuel line and carbie ... just at the end of the run time you can hear the motor start to rev up with the lean mix and then die. If you are absolutely concerned about those last few secs then kill the motor at the switch at that time. You would have cleared >99% of the fuel by then.

Cheers Z

PS - The 4St does not have these issues as it lubricated by the in the oil crank case.

[jeffb5.8]

All the Outboards (6hp - 25hp) I have ever owned we always disconnected the fuel line when finished flushing and let it run out of fuel.

never had a issue, just harder to start if i used the next day, in the sense I had to pull the cord one or two more times. 

[Nolongeramember]

On 18/05/2018 at 2:29 PM, bizzyb said:

Hey everyone. 

Sorry for being slack and not getting back to you with an update. 

I took the pin and carby to the lbs. Nothing wrong with the pin. However the carby was very dirty apparently.  He cleaned it up and once everything went back together, we finally have good starting!

I haven't tried it at 4am in 5deg weather yet but I suspect it will be ok now. 

Based on this I imagine a combination of poor maintenance from previous owner and lack of use causing fuel to sit in the bowl for long periods has gunked everything up. 

 

For anyone having the same problems, next time id probably spray it down with carby cleaner first and see if that clears up the problem. 

These days we run the motor every 2 weeks to endure no old fuel building up. 

 

Thanks to everyone for all your advice!

 

Based on the cause, you should check/ replace the fuel filter and check the condition of the inside of the tank if you can. Might need to be cleaned. 

[bizzyb]

1 minute ago, Hateanchors said:

Based on the cause, you should check/ replace the fuel filter and check the condition of the inside of the tank if you can. Might need to be cleaned. 

Thanks.  Fuel filter was new and nothing seems bad in the tank. Might change the hose at some point. 

 

However right now the boat is out of action again....busted steering cable.  Oh the joys of owning an old boat.