First boat, pretty new to this.

[Abraz]

Hey all,

I've been wanting to get my first boat for a while now, and It's looking like I'll stay put in a single location (Sydney) long enough to warrant boat ownership. I'm looking to buy in about a years time, so between now and then I'd like to get as much advice and knowledge as possible (and funds) before I pull the trigger. 

I'm actually not going to be using the boat for fishing, it will primarily be for freediving and some cruising. As such I've narrowed down the list of desirables to:

• Capacity around 4 people comfortably during transit. As it won't be for fishing it won't really be important for people to have lots of room standing and moving about the boat, because as soon as we get to the dive site everyone will be jumping straight out of the boat into the water. Plan is to get into wetsuits at the boat ramp before hopping in the boat. So, actual seating for that many people would be great.
•  Fwd storage area to stash fins, weights, floats, diving line, food. Doesn't have to be cavernous as we're not doing any SCUBA and won't have cylinders, BCDs, etc.
• Full shade would be nice (wearing wetsuits in full sun is not very fun).
• It would be nice to get to the dive sites fairly quickly and as comfortably as possible. I'd estimate the dive sites to be no further than 20km from the boat ramp. All sites would be in open water - a few kms off the coast at times, but we wouldn't be out if it was particularly rough (makes diving pretty miserable).
• Not really sure if I'm limited by my towing vehicle, but it's a 2017 Subaru Outback if it makes any difference to my options.
• Boat storage will be on the trailer in the street. Unfortunately the price of moving to Sydney meant sacrificing my large garage :'(
• I'd ideally want to be fully equipped and on the water for around $15k, but would be willing to go up to $20k if it meant a massive leap in options.

Any help and advice would be much appreciated! 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Abraz

[recurve]

Lot of boat for 20k your looking for.

With your car you would be better with an alloy plate or pressed boat. That car will drive really nicely with a 1400 or 1500 rig. Don’t take it to it’s tow limit, won’t be nice to tow. We have one and they go well  

“The diesel Outback has a braked towing capacity of 1700kg, which makes it on paper slightly less capable than the 3.6-litre petrol Outback with its 1800kg”

[Abraz]

I've cut down the capacity to 4 people if that means more options.

 

There seems to be plenty of boats in my price range on Gumtree and Boatsales. However, beyond the most obvious examples, it's hard for me to eyeball a boat and know whether it's going to be a good offshore boat or if it's only going to be good for ski or cruising around inland waters.

For example the ones that seem to pop up a lot are the Haines Signatures. But apart from the more obvious BR and S models, what am I looking for to know that it's not going to be a good offshore boat? The 1550RE look great and seem to have the perfect mix of seating and storage, but I suspect it's a calm water boat?

 

Most of the boats around my price range seem to be a little on the older side. How old is too old when we're talking about a first boat?

Edited April 14, 2018 by Abraz

[frankS]

Hi Abraz and welcome to the site, you have done the right thing by joining and asking questions early so that you can gain some knowledge in the next 12 months, there will be lots you need to learn but we can only advise you we can't do everything for you.

Let me start by suggesting you start looking at boats between 5.2 and 5.8 in length ( you can't afford to go bigger ) the boat must have a reliable motor first up so pay more attention on the running gear than the cosmetic factor of the boat, a terrible looking boat that has a great motor will be better then a suburb pretty boat with a poor motor. 4 stroke is more economical than 2  ( but if you have 4 pitching in for fuel this shouldn't sway you. Make sure the structure of the boat is solid, transom needs to have no movement in it ( ways to check ) and floor needs to be solid under foot ( also ways to check ) I would suggest 1/2 cab to stow gear, getting in and out won't be easy unless you are lucky enough to find a boat with a dive door for your dollars, so a ladder can be placed somewhere, but that would be a extra on most boats. 

This is the very basics of what I suggest and it would take many more posts to list everything you need and others will help along the way. PM me if you like and phone me and even come and meet me to have a chat as much more could be talked over face to face. I live in Berala and home most times.

Frank

[frankS]

My main advise is learn as much about anchoring as you can as I guess freediving you will mostly be close to the coast in pretty shallow water, you don't have to be far offshore to be in 20-30 metres of water and how deep do you freedive.

Learn the proper procedure for logging on and off with coast guard and get a decent radio, sounder and GPS are great tools and of coarse you will need to comply with all the safety requirements, you may or may not need a EPIRB 3 miles off shore are needed and 3 miles is usually pretty deep water around Sydney.

Frank

[Abraz]

Frank,

 

Thanks for the welcome. Don't worry, I plan on pestering everyone with questions over the next 12 months  

I'm not so concerned about the cosmetic factor, but I do want to be looking at the right kind of boat. At the moment the boats meant for flat enclosed waters and boats meant for rough open seas look very similar to me (especially the ones within my price range)! 

Getting in and out of the boat should be ok, I've gone diving off a basic fishing dinghy with a small basic step ladder and no dive door without too much issue. We can get away with a lot more when we don't have tanks to worry about!

 

I'll be looking for a course between now and then, something that will give me the basics of anchoring berthing trailering etc. A course that will include all the offshore necessities would be a bonus.

 

I'll be chasing depths of 40 - 60m for diving.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Abraz

[JonD]

Ive owned many boats and as the years have moved on and our family focus has moved to include all kinds of activities including scuba, freediving and research.

One of my favorate boats was a little Formula 15 which I replaced the merc 90 over to a Yam 70 4stroke. This little boat was pretty good as an all rounder and extremely cheap to run ( easy to tow too). I used this boat in estuaries to 40km offshore out from Narooma and along the north east coast. These little boats are built on the old Haines 445 hull and many people now snap these up to convert into little weapons, infact Jack Murphy from the captain magazine has just rebuilt himself one. By the way I took Jack in my Formula a few years back which he loved, check out his YouTube videos.

Many of the Haines signatures would handle what you are looking for but they get a little heavy for your tow vehicle after 5.2m. I owned one of the signature 505 models with a 90 Suzuki after the Formula as I wanted a bit more room. Once again fantastic economy but at least 500 kg heavier.

I now own a Zodiac 550 pro tour and have to say is the most fun I've ever had on the water in any boat. It handles conditions much bigger boats back down from, including a rescue we did last year that local charter boats wouldn't enter into. Stability simply can't be compared, not even by cats. The tubes are so buoyant you can easely load all crew on one side and barely manage to drop that side at all. The buoyancy from the 5 seperate chambers is so high that I'm legally able to carry 12 adult passengers (not that I would).

Even if all 5 chambers were to get seriously punchered by a crazy mako the fibreglass self draining hull still floats ( like a skinny long boat with low sides). A 24' hull means a very soft ride even landing after becoming fully airborne ( we push ours hard). Once again I'm running this with another Yam f 70 but in this case on a hull that's only 350kg, so once again very good economy. 

Normally I only manage 50-70 hrs of boating due to our bar conditions but since owning the rhib we are doing 350hrs + each year and always feel very confident offshore. As for offshore I've had this boat 50km offshore locally and also head out to Lady Musgrave 76km fully loaded with extra fuel and water on island exploring trips. 300km range on the 100lt underfloor tank.

We often suit up at the ramp before launch and stay out all day and never suffer from being to hot in a wetsuit, sea breezes and water on the suits dont tend to get that hot, you can always unzip or remove part of the wetsuit.

We don't just target small fish from our rib but chase game species too. Any fish you hook is more of a battle against angler and fish as you don't have gunnels to lean against. Any fish fight you have to be prepared to simply stand and hold on. 

My kids love driving the boat and feel very confident even in bar crossings that would normally of kept us off the water. Not all ribs are equal, some ride wet ( not ours).

 

[Abraz]

JonD, 

Thanks for that, the boat looks amazing. I finished with the Navy a few years ago but some of my fondest memories were of days out training in the boarding party RIBs, hooning around Phillip Island in really silly weather when no other boats were out.

I was looking around at the OceanCraft line of boats, how do the full aluminium tube style boats compare to the normal RIBs? Both seem to have a far higher passenger capacity for their length compared with regular boats, both seem a lot lighter, both apparently require a lot less of a motor. I'd assume the full aluminium would be a lot more expensive, but I like all the options with full shading, storage, and seating.

[JonD]

8 hours ago, Abraz said:

JonD, 

Thanks for that, the boat looks amazing. I finished with the Navy a few years ago but some of my fondest memories were of days out training in the boarding party RIBs, hooning around Phillip Island in really silly weather when no other boats were out.

I was looking around at the OceanCraft line of boats, how do the full aluminium tube style boats compare to the normal RIBs? Both seem to have a far higher passenger capacity for their length compared with regular boats, both seem a lot lighter, both apparently require a lot less of a motor. I'd assume the full aluminium would be a lot more expensive, but I like all the options with full shading, storage, and seating.

I haven't been in one Unfortunatly and I here quite mixed reviews on the likes of stabicraft and profile boats. I'm pretty keen to try one as the 635 profile looks pretty good to me for a tube boat and something I could see myself doing some long range island hoping from.

[Abraz]

Another series of boats I've been looking at has been the Quintrex Freedom Sports or Cruisers. Most seem to be in the range of $20-25K, but tick a lot of boxes. Especially the Cruisers with the nice rear steps.

Bowriders have always been a desirable boat for me, but most seem to be only for enclosed waters. A lot of people have said that the Quintrex Freedoms are actually pretty good offshore in mild conditions? 

Thoughts on the Freedoms or any similar boats?

[Omally]

I got a freedomsport check it out in members boats it's on the last page easy to find .I've had about 15 boats and this is my favourite  ....but I am aluminium biased and only had alloy boats for the simple fact of maintenance and I'm a welder so they are good for me to customise  and weld ?...I'm sure others have there preferance but this is mine and with the millenium hull it's really quiet and not slappy on the water mmmm feel like going fishing ?but if going offshore I'd get one bigger than mine and more HP ...mines setup for estuarys ,dams  I'd take it out a lil bit on a good day but wouldn't go to far out I remember when I done my boat licence a long time ago we went on a 6 m freedomsport with a 200 HP Merc I think from memory was an absolute beast and always wanted one after that but looking at a lot more than 20 k

Edited April 19, 2018 by Omally

[JonD]

Those freedom sports aren't that expensive. There's been a few from $10000-$14000 down this way. In fact a good I recently had a very good friend selling his and another good friend wanting to buy it, $10000 and both parties were very happy. The boat has rear steps, radio, sounder and 120 hrs on the Yam 85, trailer was new and never been in the water.

As for ride, yes smooth on calm water but I'm used to far softer riding glass boats ( have to be with back and neck problems ).

[raging]

I think you'll struggle with a glass boat with an outback. Towing weight is going to be your limiting factor.

Freedom sport are ok outside, not great, but ok. I take mine out all the time. Sometimes just need to go slow when it's sloppy otherwise too much banging.

 

 

[rickmarlin62]

You said 40  to 60 mtrs depth  freediving  i was once aust junior champ spearing  i can freedive 26mtrs  if you can freedive 40mtrs  im sceptical bout how you measure depth   not many guys in this country can hit 40  let alone 60mtrs....rick

[Omally]

Definately worth a drive to where jonD is from won't get nothing like that in Sydney for that and if you do something ain't right ? 

Good luck matey hope you get what you want 

[Omally]

On the other hand if you wait till the dead of winter ...you might get a bargain 

[Abraz]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I just got back from the Goldy and went out diving on one of the OceanCraft 5.3m full aluminium RIB-style boat. Seems a little harsher riding than a normal inflatable RIB, but it was great to see that they could fully customise their rig by just simply welding stuff to the tubes and hull. 

 

@rickmarlin62 awesome, nice work on the champs! I'm always envious of spearfishers and their bottom times. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by Abraz

[JonD]

Another quintrex has just popped up on our local Narooma buy swap sell today, looks pretty tidy $11000.

On 19/04/2018 at 10:14 PM, rickmarlin62 said:

You said 40  to 60 mtrs depth  freediving  i was once aust junior champ spearing  i can freedive 26mtrs  if you can freedive 40mtrs  im sceptical bout how you measure depth   not many guys in this country can hit 40  let alone 60mtrs....rick

My daughter now freedives 20m +. During the last nationals comp down this way a veteran South African diver in his 60's was onboard one of the boats where the sounder showed 60m and the old fella dived down and brought gravel up from the bottom. 

Tomorrow I plan a scuba trip into one of our sanctuaries to film lobsters, haven't used the tanks for so long I've almost forgotten how to use the stuff.

[rickmarlin62]

I shot a spotted boarfish at 80ft on the front of green cape many years ago and ralph walley swam past gave me the thumbs up then dissapeated over the next ledge  he came up with a tassie and a banded mowie  best ive seen...rick

[Blackfish]

On 4/19/2018 at 10:14 PM, rickmarlin62 said:

You said 40  to 60 mtrs depth  freediving  i was once aust junior champ spearing  i can freedive 26mtrs  if you can freedive 40mtrs  im sceptical bout how you measure depth   not many guys in this country can hit 40  let alone 60mtrs....rick

Ever bump into M Colys, he also was also Junior champion.

[Abraz]

@JonD, if I were to go down the RIB path, would they be fine to store outside on a trailer (with a boat cover), or do the bladders get a little weird in the elements?

If I were to hang out for something around $20-30k mark, do any decent ones pop up in the 5-6m range (trailer, motor, good condition)? I'm starting to see the effect of boats on my price range and how it makes it creep up and up...

The more I look at boats in my price range, the more I realise the value of the RIBs in terms of offshore capability, trailering, and passenger capacity for the length.

[JonD]

23 hours ago, Abraz said:

@JonD, if I were to go down the RIB path, would they be fine to store outside on a trailer (with a boat cover), or do the bladders get a little weird in the elements?

If I were to hang out for something around $20-30k mark, do any decent ones pop up in the 5-6m range (trailer, motor, good condition)? I'm starting to see the effect of boats on my price range and how it makes it creep up and up...

The more I look at boats in my price range, the more I realise the value of the RIBs in terms of offshore capability, trailering, and passenger capacity for the length.

I highly recommend you go out in any you consider buying as some I've been in are quite wet, I often go out in an old fisheries 7m Gemini which is very wet, my zodiac is extremely dry.

If you plan on keeping one outside you can get permenantly fitted covers which also help protect from sharp objects. You can also just use a normal boat cover.

You have to be careful on what cleaners you use as silicon can damage glued seams. I use an inflatable boat cleaner followed by a UV protectant every now and then and the boat looks like new still (600hrs on ).

There are still a few old ribs about from the 2000 Sydney Olympic's with the original tubes, so they can last if looked after. Some boats still have tubes that are much older, jump on the ribnet forum to see how old some of these are out there. There are plenty of aluminium boats with electrolysis issues or glass boats with rotten floor stringers and transoms within that age. A small leek can simply be fixed by deflating partly and dabbing a small spot of super glue over the hole.

As for buying one secondhand there's been a few cracking deals where you could get the odd one bellow half new price at just 12 months old. 

For me the sheer fact I can use mine for far more days than any other boat I've ever owned simply outweighs any possible tube fail. I passed Narooma ramp today where there were just three vehicles parked with trailers, on down at Bermi where I launched there were just four boats out. When we returned with a strong southery behind us there were no boats out.