What to look for good riding boat

[Squidhead87]

Hi all.  I currently got a little runnabout about 14.5ft, looking to upgrade soon maybe 15-16ft, just want to know what to look for in design for a boat that rides good in chop.

I know the deeper the V the better the ride. But what about other factors?

Bow shape. Does a sharper bow make the ride better? By how much?

Weight of boat?

Any other factors?

[noelm]

Everything is a compromise, a deep V rides best, but is not as stable at rest, a sharp bow doesn't matter a whole heap because it's usually out of the water anyway, unless you trim right in because of a short steep chop, weight is not the be all to end all, a flat bottomed boat rides rough regardless if there's 1 person, or 10 people, it's flat, it's going to hit hard, the shape of the boat determines the ride, don't be fooled into thinking glass rides better, a deep V alloy plate boat will ride better than a shallow glass boat, also don't believe all you hear about certain brands.

[Slawman]

15 hours ago, Squidhead87 said:

Hi all.  I currently got a little runnabout about 14.5ft, looking to upgrade soon maybe 15-16ft, just want to know what to look for in design for a boat that rides good in chop.

I know the deeper the V the better the ride. But what about other factors?

Bow shape. Does a sharper bow make the ride better? By how much?

Weight of boat?

Any other factors?

The biggest difference I have found after owning and driving a lot of boats is boat hull material (fiberglass or Aly) and length.  The heavier and longer the better for ride through chop.  Deep V and dead-rise are subtleties that affect handling and ride but not as much as the weight and length.  The best boat I have ever driven for "chop" is a  22ft haines formula which was powered by two V8 truck engines (my dads boat).   Could be driven almost flat out back from long reef to the heads in a southerly - Not comfortable but possible.   Very heavy to tow (3 tonnes) and very thirsty for fuel....  You need to drive them to work out what aspects of performance are important to you.

[Rebel]

Hi,

The best boat I ever owned was Caribbean Crestcutter with a 115 hp johnson. This took me everywhere. As the guys say you have to test them.

Cheers.

[noelm]

2 hours ago, Slawman said:

The biggest difference I have found after owning and driving a lot of boats is boat hull material (fiberglass or Aly) and length.  The heavier and longer the better for ride through chop.  Deep V and dead-rise are subtleties that affect handling and ride but not as much as the weight and length.  The best boat I have ever driven for "chop" is a  22ft haines formula which was powered by two V8 truck engines (my dads boat).   Could be driven almost flat out back from long reef to the heads in a southerly - Not comfortable but possible.   Very heavy to tow (3 tonnes) and very thirsty for fuel....  You need to drive them to work out what aspects of performance are important to you.

You're generalising, a big heavy, skinny flat bottomed glass punt will not ride as good as a deep V plate aluminium boat!

Edited June 30, 2019 by noelm

[Slawman]

5 minutes ago, noelm said:

You're generalising, a big heavy, skinny flat bottomed glass punt will not ride as good as a deep V plate aluminium boat!

For sure, if you had a Punt on your list cross it off.....

[noelm]

True, but, you can't just say a certain brand/material rides better, it's just not true, just as a certain "legendary" brand isn't always the best, being popular isn't a gauge on ride or build quality.

[Slawman]

Just now, noelm said:

True, but, you can't just say a certain brand/material rides better, it's just not true, just as a certain "legendary" brand isn't always the best, being popular isn't a gauge on ride or build quality.

That has not been my experience Noel.  Same hull shape, one out of aluminium, one out of glass, the glass will ride better in chop, mainly due to the weight.  You could probably weigh down an aly boat to get a similar result but that would eliminate one of its key advantages. 

[PaddyT]

its actually got very little to do with what material its made from- ride is all about 3 things, size , shape and weight- if its heavier and bigger it will ride better and if its longer that helps too.

[noelm]

It's also worth mentioning the difference between a pressed tinny and a true plate boat, they are worlds apart.

[JonD]

There are a few great little deep V hulls that are actually pretty good at rest, such as a little formula 15 I once owned. These hulls were from the Haines 14-15 hull mould, which there are several manufactures making under different names. Fibreglass tends to be softer riding due to the more advanced shapes that can be made from them.

There are relatively soft riding and incredibly stable aluminium hulls from the likes of stagecraft, which also run on smaller economical engines than many glass boats.

Then there are hulls like my own current boat which has a 24' v soft riding hull and rock solid stability thanks to inflatable tubes. To top it of my hull at just 5.2m is legally able to carry 12 adult passengers, not that I do but knowing I can safely load my boat from the crew of most other trailer boats if ever needed is another bonus.

 

 

[savit]

4 hours ago, JonD said:

There are a few great little deep V hulls that are actually pretty good at rest, such as a little formula 15 I once owned. These hulls were from the Haines 14-15 hull mould, which there are several manufactures making under different names. Fibreglass tends to be softer riding due to the more advanced shapes that can be made from them.

There are relatively soft riding and incredibly stable aluminium hulls from the likes of stagecraft, which also run on smaller economical engines than many glass boats.

Then there are hulls like my own current boat which has a 24' v soft riding hull and rock solid stability thanks to inflatable tubes. To top it of my hull at just 5.2m is legally able to carry 12 adult passengers, not that I do but knowing I can safely load my boat from the crew of most other trailer boats if ever needed is another bonus.

 

 

Jon, how long is RIB life due to rubber/inflatable parts?

[JonD]

4 hours ago, savit said:

Jon, how long is RIB life due to rubber/inflatable parts?

They claim around 10-15 years but there are many older ones around, including Gemini's from the Sydney Olympic's. 

On the zodiacs the tubes have a runner that slides into a slot, which means I can remove my tubeset single handed and stick another on if and when needed. Mine has 5 chambers, which are each filled separately, even if all were to get punchers the hull itself is self floating and draining.

The way I looked at it was, in an average year I was managing to get out through Narooma bar 50-70 engine hours per year with any of the boats I've owned before. Where now I'm able to get out far more often, clocking around 400 hrs per year. With that in mind I'm getting 5 years + use per year out of the boat.

Rough water and bar crossing rarely worry me now and the confidence my kids have gained from driving it is another bonus. If the kids bump the jetty it simply bounces off rather than chipping gell coats or scratching paint. It's also a great little outfit to learne how to drive onto trailers, which then gives you more confidence if driving other rigs.

The best thing is, it puts a grin on my face every time I head out, it's such a fun toy.

 

[Guest Guest123456789]

On 6/29/2019 at 5:18 PM, Squidhead87 said:

Hi all.  I currently got a little runnabout about 14.5ft, looking to upgrade soon maybe 15-16ft, just want to know what to look for in design for a boat that rides good in chop.

I know the deeper the V the better the ride. But what about other factors?

Bow shape. Does a sharper bow make the ride better? By how much?

Weight of boat?

Any other factors?

To answer your question IMO hull shape and design makes a HUGE difference. So much so I wouldn’t buy a boat older than 7 years old, the technology advancements are massive.

Its a bit of marketing but tend to agree with the sentiments having ridden in older Quintrex and Stacer hulls and new ones as well:

http://www.quintrex.com.au/BuyingABoat/QuintrexNews/QuintrexReleasesNewMillenniumBladeHull

The new quintrex and Stacer tinnies are absolutely amazing, both in chop and at rest PROVIDED you distribute the weight properly. IE keep weight evenly balanced, down LOW and in the corners stops the pitch and roll when anchored as well as the slapping when navigating through chop. IE don’t install one of those bait board live tanks above the outboard with 40 litres of water sloshing around, don’t install a plate metal 80 kilo hard top canopy, don’t stick a 100 kilo long esky up high on the casting platform, don’t have all your heavy gear stored forward or aft etc. Seriously consider a electric motor up forward, (even just a cheapy watersnake) as aside from helping control drifts etc the 30 kg battery positioned forward and low provides excellent ballast and greatly improves ride and handling.

Aside from the ride, the new hulls do an incredible job of throwing spray away from the cabin (even open boat tiller steers). They are so much drier than the older hulls

You may not believe me but I would much rather ride in my 14 foot open boat tinnie offshore than my brothers 1980’s Haines hunter 480 fibreglass. Sure riding aft instead of forward makes a difference but even sitting in the back in the Haines hunter, the nose slaps up and down a heck of a lot and the pitch in roll when stationary is a lot worse too. 

[Ah Me Ting]

On 6/29/2019 at 5:18 PM, Squidhead87 said:

Hi all.  I currently got a little runnabout about 14.5ft, looking to upgrade soon maybe 15-16ft, just want to know what to look for in design for a boat that rides good in chop.

I know the deeper the V the better the ride. But what about other factors?

Bow shape. Does a sharper bow make the ride better? By how much?

Weight of boat?

Any other factors?

What sort of use are you planning for the new boat? Much change to your current one?

What's your current boat?

I think the 'ride' metric is different in different use boats. It is also only one of the numerous aspects to consider.

Having said that, even in a estuary boat I'd prefer a V over a punt style, well unless you need the minimal draw of a big wide punt for big shallow area fishing. 

[Ah Me Ting]

1 hour ago, flatheadluke said:

To answer your question IMO hull shape and design makes a HUGE difference. So much so I wouldn’t buy a boat older than 7 years old, the technology advancements are massive.

Its a bit of marketing but tend to agree with the sentiments having ridden in older Quintrex and Stacer hulls and new ones as well:

http://www.quintrex.com.au/BuyingABoat/QuintrexNews/QuintrexReleasesNewMillenniumBladeHull

The new quintrex and Stacer tinnies are absolutely amazing, both in chop and at rest PROVIDED you distribute the weight properly. ...

The millennium hull first came out about 18/19 years ago. My FIL has a 2000/2001 5m Quintrex 'spirit" that has it... I think it may be one of the first years it was released, hence the 'millenium' branding.

It's only more recently filtered down into the open boat category in the likes of the too ender's and Renegades.

[Ah Me Ting]

On 6/30/2019 at 11:38 AM, Slawman said:

That has not been my experience Noel.  Same hull shape, one out of aluminium, one out of glass, the glass will ride better in chop, mainly due to the weight.  You could probably weigh down an aly boat to get a similar result but that would eliminate one of its key advantages. 

Weight definitely helps.

But.

Some glass boats over the years, even with the weight advantage ride like shit. 

An old Nautiglass my family had, comes to mind. Not only a horrid ride, but terrible handling. Sure learnt how a boat broaches with that thing!

[Ah Me Ting]

Good info here for this discussion:

https://www.boatingmag.com/all-aboard-boats-whats-deal-deadrise/

 

 

[Guest Guest123456789]

26 minutes ago, Ah Me Ting said:

The millennium hull first came out about 18/19 years ago. My FIL has a 2000/2001 5m Quintrex 'spirit" that has it... I think it may be one of the first years it was released, hence the 'millenium' branding.

It's only more recently filtered down into the open boat category in the likes of the too ender's and Renegades.

The article I posted references the Milennium Blade Hull, not the Milennium Hull. Big difference.

The Milennium Blade Hull was launched across the entire range at release, not staggered. 

[Ah Me Ting]

Just now, flatheadluke said:

The article I posted references the Milennium Blade Hull, not the Milennium Hull. Big difference.

The Milennium Blade Hull was launched across the entire range at release, not staggered. 

Yes, agreed different branding. But, total design change I would not call a "big difference". 

[Guest Guest123456789]

5 minutes ago, Ah Me Ting said:

Yes, agreed different branding. But, total design change I would not call a "big difference". 

Fair enough mate I respect your opinion.

If you can, next time you see a newer quinnie or stacer at the ramp go have a look at the underside of the hull. They’re a seriously beautiful design, such sharp lines and edges and really aggressively shaped. I just love how mine handles and I noticed the other day coming into box head at about 15 knots into the breeze how well the water got displaced out and downwards into the water. They’re very clever engineers we have in Queensland.

[GoingFishing]

17 minutes ago, flatheadluke said:

Fair enough mate I respect your opinion.

If you can, next time you see a newer quinnie or stacer at the ramp go have a look at the underside of the hull. They’re a seriously beautiful design, such sharp lines and edges and really aggressively shaped. I just love how mine handles and I noticed the other day coming into box head at about 15 knots into the breeze how well the water got displaced out and downwards into the water. They’re very clever engineers we have in Queensland.

My old quintrex renegade had a millennium blade hull and it was great. Very dry riding and stable.

 

[JonD]

42 minutes ago, GoingFishing said:

My old quintrex renegade had a millennium blade hull and it was great. Very dry riding and stable.

 

I bought a 4.75 millennium hull, my idea of soft riding and stable is obviously not quite the same as yours 😊 Bought it new, sold it six months later. 

 

[GoingFishing]

11 minutes ago, JonD said:

I bought a 4.75 millennium hull, my idea of soft riding and stable is obviously not quite the same as yours 😊 Bought it new, sold it six months later. 

 

I never said soft riding Jon!! Just dry and stable hehe.

For a run about which is supposed to be predominately for estuaries and bays they ride well. Not ideal for open ocean. Which is why I sold mine and bought the Yellowfin !

[Ah Me Ting]

1 hour ago, flatheadluke said:

Fair enough mate I respect your opinion.

If you can, next time you see a newer quinnie or stacer at the ramp go have a look at the underside of the hull. They’re a seriously beautiful design, such sharp lines and edges and really aggressively shaped. I just love how mine handles and I noticed the other day coming into box head at about 15 knots into the breeze how well the water got displaced out and downwards into the water. They’re very clever engineers we have in Queensland.

At risk of going further off topic ...

I have one! I have a 420 Renegade TS.