New to Luderick fishing

[Birdy]

Hey guys, I'm from eastern suburbs Sydney and I have recently been into Luderick fishing, have caught a couple on an absolutely woeful setup (short rod with spinning reel). I bumped into an awesome guy who has been rock fishing luderick for many many years by the name of Barry. He showed me a few tricks of the trade, how to prepare blackfish for eating, what the rig should look like and what fish not to eat (I caught a "boot", some form of rock cod that taste garbage). He also showed me his reel and rod, which brings me here, I'm looking for a centrepin reel, does anyone have any suggestions? I'm trying to go cheap but good value and still exists on the market and can handle salt water easily. Barry uses a Shakespeare eagle but I looked around and couldn't find any. Thanks in advance to anyone who replies💜💜 

[XD351]

You can get these from a tackle store located in Coffs Harbour , I use the alvey float but you are looking at $230-$280 for one new .  Can’t vouch for these reels below as I have never used them or even looked at one.

You can buy this one through the Deckee store as well .

Edited January 24 by XD351

[big Neil]

Hi Birdy and welcome to the forum. Blackfishing is an amazing form of fishing, having the right gear is great if you plan on doing it a lot. The pictures below show a locally produced Blackfish reel that can be used left or right-hand wind, has drag settings, and swivels to 90 degrees for casting. It is easy to clean after use and will last you a lifetime. ALVEY 455B

The reel turned through 90 degrees and ready for casting

Check it out and good luck with your Blackfishing.    bn

[DerekD]

Hi @Birdy

Welcome to the forum.

Out of curiosity, is this something you intend to do obsessively or do you just want to dip a toe in and do it for fun? I see people go down the route I have to get the x foot long rod and it has to be a centrepin reel. Don't get me wrong in that people like Barry have put the time in to refine what they do and it works but it is not the only route. I do chase blackfish successfully and it is part of what I teach beginners - they are available all year round and fun to catch because it is also a visual experience. I put this article together a while back.

People like Barry will probably outfish me (but I do catch my fair share when I head out for them) so if you do intend to get into it seriously and enjoy it that way then go for it and I think you are lucky to have met someone like him. If you are on a budget then consider it can be done other ways. Essentially you just need a means to get the right bait to the right depth in a way which doesn't spook them and it helps to use burley to fire them up.

Regards,

Derek

Edited January 24 by DerekD

[noelm]

While a centre pin reel is the optimum, thousands of Blackfish are caught on small spinning reels, so, unless (as mentioned) you intend to make them your “thing” I personally would continue using a small threadline for a while until you really start to get serious. A decent rod can be found relatively easily, even second hand I see them often.

[Green Hornet]

Welcome to the group @Birdy, great to see you getting into blackfish, but please let us know if you intend to spend most of your time chasing them from the ocean rocks or the estuaries as there is subtle differences in the rigs and gear used.

@noelm is on the money in saying start out with a spin reel. They’re so easy to use by leaving the bail arm open while drifting your float and controlling the line coming off your spool with a finger on the spool’s lip. There are a lot of good blackfishermen out there that use a spin reel by choice over a centrepin.

That being said, if your heart is set on a centrepin, apart from the excellent advice other members have provided, you could also look on some of the second hand websites for something like a Steelite reel. They are quite cheap at around 20 - 40 bucks, depending on condition and the reel so many of us started out on.

[Burger]

Hiya @Birdy,

Welcome to the forum and there is some good advice above for you already!

One of the guys I fish with uses a spinning reel and does as well as, and often better, than the rest of us using centrepins.

It's definitely easier to cast longer distances (if needed) with a spin reel.

I reckon a centrepin does however have an advantage when rockfishing, allowing better line control in the surge.  I'm pretty old school though.

The main advantage in a long soft rod over a short spin rod is picking up line in the strike on longer drifts and, if rock fishing, in being stand back further from the edge and keep your line out the wash and off the rocks. 

A soft rod will do a lot of the work for you absorbing lunging fighting style of Luderick.

One of the VERY best tips is to balance your float so it is close to neutral buoyancy, my estuary float only has 1cm of the tip of the float exposed and definitely none of the float body.

My set up's are

Rock fishing: 12' Magbream with the Okuma shown above. it's a bloody good reel that I bought as a divorce present for myself. 16lb float mainline, 8lb FC trace with a heavy fixed float that has lead on the stem to hold it more upright in the surge and reduce the lead needed on the line. I believe this allows the bait to move more naturally.

Estuary: 10' Wilson blackfish rod and an Alvey 475CP. 12lb mainline and 6lb FC trace matched with a much lighter running float compared to my rockfloats.

I use Daiichi 2171B hooks mainly in a size 8, going up or down a size as needed.

This is just the way I do it and you will find the way Luderick fishing is 'done' varies all along the NSW seaboard.

Best of luck on your journey, float watching for a hardfighting fish on light gear is pretty addictive.

[Birdy]

4 hours ago, DerekD said:

Hi @Birdy

Welcome to the forum.

Out of curiosity, is this something you intend to do obsessively or do you just want to dip a toe in and do it for fun? I see people go down the route I have to get the x foot long rod and it has to be a centrepin reel. Don't get me wrong in that people like Barry have put the time in to refine what they do and it works but it is not the only route. I do chase blackfish successfully and it is part of what I teach beginners - they are available all year round and fun to catch because it is also a visual experience. I put this article together a while back.

People like Barry will probably outfish me (but I do catch my fair share when I head out for them) so if you do intend to get into it seriously and enjoy it that way then go for it and I think you are lucky to have met someone like him. If you are on a budget then consider it can be done other ways. Essentially you just need a means to get the right bait to the right depth in a way which doesn't spook them and it helps to use burley to fire them up.

Regards,

Derek

Hey Derek, I am a pretty obsessive guy, once I start something there's no going back and I'll be doing it for a long time. I definitely see myself mainly targetting blackfish and squid as my two golden species for the rest of my life. Thanks for showing me that additional information / alternative route but also I think why I like luderick fishing is more than just landing the fish, the old videos I watched of people using old gear to catch luderick off the rocks near my home just made me feel like I could continue that tradition, as there aren't many young people fishing for luderick where I live. That's why I'm keen to get the traditional gear. Cheers for everything you mentioned and everyone above who gave reel suggestions 👌

[Birdy]

2 hours ago, Green Hornet said:

Welcome to the group @Birdy, great to see you getting into blackfish, but please let us know if you intend to spend most of your time chasing them from the ocean rocks or the estuaries as there is subtle differences in the rigs and gear used.

@noelm is on the money in saying start out with a spin reel. They’re so easy to use by leaving the bail arm open while drifting your float and controlling the line coming off your spool with a finger on the spool’s lip. There are a lot of good blackfishermen out there that use a spin reel by choice over a centrepin.

That being said, if your heart is set on a centrepin, apart from the excellent advice other members have provided, you could also look on some of the second hand websites for something like a Steelite reel. They are quite cheap at around 20 - 40 bucks, depending on condition and the reel so many of us started out on.

Hey green, thanks for your post 👌 definitely looking for something off the rocks. I'll have a look at the steelite on all the markets. Cheers!

[XD351]

It won’t be long before you dive into the dark art of float making 🤣🤣🤣 . Like lure making it is a hobby in its own right! 

[Green Hornet]

47 minutes ago, Birdy said:

Hey green, thanks for your post 👌 definitely looking for something off the rocks. I'll have a look at the steelite on all the markets. Cheers!

In that case you’ll be looking at a rod around 12 foot/3.6m in length and a reel a little larger than the Steelite may suit you better. The Alvey that @big Neil suggested is a good option, as is one of Alvey’s 47 Float reels. Second hand you could look for an Alvey 475a or similar if you wanted something cheaper. The larger, heavier reels suit the longer rod and the larger diameter will increase your winding speed a little.

I don’t fish the rocks these days, but when I did I was quite happy to use a spin reel loaded with braid. The spot I mostly fished required long drifts and the higher retrieve rate over a centrepin meant I spent more time fishing and less time winding. My spot was also quite low to the water and if I saw a dodgy wave approaching, I could wind in quickly and get to higher ground.

With the spin reel and braid (which floats by the way) there was no need to strike when your float went down, just a couple of quick turns of the handle was enough to load up the rod.

 

[bessell1955]

Best of luck @Birdy, I wish you well.  It appears that once again this forum have people with a vast amount of fishing knowledge and more importantly willing to share that knowledge.

[Green Hornet]

1 minute ago, XD351 said:

It won’t be long before you dive into the dark art of float making 🤣🤣🤣 . Like lure making it is a hobby in its own right! 

….and the clandestine techniques of gathering green weed and telling nobody where you where you found it.

[noelm]

Everything mentioned is gold, making floats, finding secret weed spots, what type of weed they are feeding on this week, where and at what depth are all part of the “secret handshake” population that are Blackfish specialists.

[XD351]

1 hour ago, Green Hornet said:

….and the clandestine techniques of gathering green weed and telling nobody where you where you found it.

If you ever had a secret you needed someone to keep better to  choose a luderick fisho - you literally have to bludgeon them to death to get the secret location of their weed supply so I think your secret would be pretty safe 🤣🤣🤣

I’m going to have a go at growing my own very soon - I’m sick of trying to find it or driving to the ocean rocks ( 1hr + drive ) and trying to balance that with tides and swell conditions .

[Green Hornet]

15 minutes ago, XD351 said:

If you ever had a secret you needed someone to keep better to  choose a luderick fisho - you literally have to bludgeon them to death to get the secret location of their weed supply so I think your secret would be pretty safe 🤣🤣🤣

I’m going to have a go at growing my own very soon - I’m sick of trying to find it or driving to the ocean rocks ( 1hr + drive ) and trying to balance that with tides and swell conditions .

I've grown saltwater weed successfully in the past. I was constantly picking at it for bait only (not berley) and after 12 months it was still good and had doubled in size.

You just need to give it 50% sun, aerate it every 2 or 3 days, feed it once a week and top up the evaporated water with rain or distilled water. I found it rally helped to replace half the tank with "new" water, gathered from the same place you got the weed, every month or so.

 

[XD351]

1 hour ago, Green Hornet said:

I've grown saltwater weed successfully in the past. I was constantly picking at it for bait only (not berley) and after 12 months it was still good and had doubled in size.

You just need to give it 50% sun, aerate it every 2 or 3 days, feed it once a week and top up the evaporated water with rain or distilled water. I found it rally helped to replace half the tank with "new" water, gathered from the same place you got the weed, every month or so.

 

Thanks ! All great info there ! 
what are you using for the weed to grow on  ?

[Green Hornet]

56 minutes ago, XD351 said:

Thanks ! All great info there ! 
what are you using for the weed to grow on  ?

I originally started using Leaf Grow, an aquatic fertilizer at half strength and found although it kept the weed growing well, it paled in colour significantly. I changed to a product called Chateo Grow, still at half the recommended strength and found the weed quickly returned to a lush, dark green, similar to the colour it was when I first collected it.

I must admit though, there was no recognisable difference to how the blackfish reacted to the bait with either fertilizer.

[XD351]

Ok cool ! Thanks ! Also what is the weed attached to ? Or is it free floating ? 

[Birdy]

Cheers @Green HornetI'll definitely get searching for what you've mentioned, much appreciated 👌

[Birdy]

9 hours ago, Burger said:

Hiya @Birdy,

Welcome to the forum and there is some good advice above for you already!

One of the guys I fish with uses a spinning reel and does as well as, and often better, than the rest of us using centrepins.

It's definitely easier to cast longer distances (if needed) with a spin reel.

I reckon a centrepin does however have an advantage when rockfishing, allowing better line control in the surge.  I'm pretty old school though.

The main advantage in a long soft rod over a short spin rod is picking up line in the strike on longer drifts and, if rock fishing, in being stand back further from the edge and keep your line out the wash and off the rocks. 

A soft rod will do a lot of the work for you absorbing lunging fighting style of Luderick.

One of the VERY best tips is to balance your float so it is close to neutral buoyancy, my estuary float only has 1cm of the tip of the float exposed and definitely none of the float body.

My set up's are

Rock fishing: 12' Magbream with the Okuma shown above. it's a bloody good reel that I bought as a divorce present for myself. 16lb float mainline, 8lb FC trace with a heavy fixed float that has lead on the stem to hold it more upright in the surge and reduce the lead needed on the line. I believe this allows the bait to move more naturally.

Estuary: 10' Wilson blackfish rod and an Alvey 475CP. 12lb mainline and 6lb FC trace matched with a much lighter running float compared to my rockfloats.

I use Daiichi 2171B hooks mainly in a size 8, going up or down a size as needed.

This is just the way I do it and you will find the way Luderick fishing is 'done' varies all along the NSW seaboard.

Best of luck on your journey, float watching for a hardfighting fish on light gear is pretty addictive.

This info is great, I forgot to reply to this when you originally posted this. Is your magbream rod super super light or is it kind of heavy? I'm pretty keen to get something super light so I can stand there all day without getting tired. The dude Barry I bumped into had silstar traditional match 420 and I held it, it was soooo light for how long it was. 

[Burger]

Hiya Birdy,

The magbream is apparently extended about 6”, it’s not superlight and has the reel seat very towards the butt like old school Alvey set up.

No way I could hold it all day, but I’m also an unfit old bastard.

I think moving the reel seat forward would balance the rod better and have it feel lighter as a result.

Cheers, stu.

[Green Hornet]

14 hours ago, XD351 said:

Ok cool ! Thanks ! Also what is the weed attached to ? Or is it free floating ? 

I grew it in a plastic container and at first it was just free floating, as all I originally planned on doing was trying to keep it fresh for longer than the rolling up in newspaper method. Some of it eventually attached itself to the sides of the box and started growing from there.  
After that my plan was to find some weed growing on a rock and place that in a tank, but I never got around to it because I’ve since found a good source of naturally growing stuff.

Edited January 25 by Green Hornet

[Green Hornet]

@Birdy I have a couple of magbream blackfish rods, one is 11’4” which is the original length of the blank and the other is extended out to 13 foot. While they aren’t the lightest rod going, I certainly wouldn’t call them heavy and they are strong enough in the butt to lift a decent size fish. To source a mag bream these days mightn’t be too easy.
Another good option is a Gary Howard Ocean Blackfish rod. He makes one on a GP3145g blank which has a graphite lower section, blending into a 1 meter fiberglass tip. I have a 2 piece rod and it is very nice to fish with. Light, but still plenty of lifting power in the bottom end. I’m pretty sure he also makes a full fiberglass model if that’s what you prefer.
His rods aren’t all that easy to find in the shops, but are more prevalent around Gosford and Newcastle. He’s from Queensland and I just contacted him directly and got mine couriered to the south coast. Message me if you’d like his contact details.

[XD351]

I have a mag bream I built- maybe 28yrs ago, maybe 30 I dunno  , total length is a nudge under 11’3 and set up for a sidecast or centre pin. I no longer use this and was only keeping it as I couldn’t bare to see it go in the bin - it’s yours if you want it - it’s not the thing of beauty it once was , it has caught a lot of fish and can still catch a lot more ! They’re not as heavy as the old solid glass rod I had when I was a kid , a lot of that is hype from tackle stores and rod manufacturers trying to sell you the new super duper graphite rods - yeah sure they’re light but are damaged easily and if I had to choose between glass and graphite for fishing off the rocks it would be glass every time.

Edited January 25 by XD351