Luderick - Cabbage Weed - Unusually Sparse??

[Peter KH]

G'day Fishos,

Hope everyone is well.

I live on the Georges River Sydney, a couple hundred metres away from Como Bridge for context.

Some quick questions, this winter I was hoping to get some good luderick fishing done has I've done for the past few years. However, something is unusually different about the luderick fishing. This certainly isn't the case for other areas because many people are having great success. Ive notices that the edges of my pontoon (and the neighbours) pontoons/jetties have very limited amount of cabbage weed growing if any at all. It is all small little tiny buds nothing substantial to use for bait, let alone enough for burley. When I do find any it is very thin and not big, wide, broad leaves that you would expect. Im not sure, is the initial growth typically more ribbon like, being about 2-3mm wide?? 

In all the past years, just below the water mark on the pontoons it is always a huge bushy green from the amount of thick cabbage weed growing, there was also a very thin red algae growing every year too, this year, barely anything at all. Ive found some photos online because I forgot to take a photo this morning. On the left is the very sparse type of weed growing at the moment, on the right is the weed I would typically see each year. 

(https://www.macman.id.au/index.php/luderick-fishing/77-luderick-101)

What Im used to seeing.

(http://www.fishingmonthly.com.au/Articles/Display/21728-Laugh-as-you-land-lovely-luderick)

About 2-3 months ago was my last proper attempt at targeting them, and I got a great bag full of some pretty decent ones, now I can't seem to have anything go my way in terms of blackfish. I think it could be due to the recent flooding of the Georges about 1-2 months ago when heaps of the freshwater flushed through the system all the way up from Liverpool. Does anybody have some idea or any clue what is going on?? I went around on the boat and kayak whilst fishing and look at the other pontoon in the area and again there is barely anything growing, and if this is anything it is a very small clump of the wakame looking stringy weed.

Anyway, hope that somebody has any idea whats going on or has any tips. Perhaps is there anyway to grow my own weed seeing has I live/have direct access onto the georges river??

Cheers,

Peter.

[Green Hornet]

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head mentioning that the lack of weed is possibly due to the amount of flooding and freshwater in the system.

I hear fishos making the same comment right up and down the coast lately. Most are gathering their weed from around the ocean rocks, where the freshwater isn’t a problem.

[Peter KH]

Any clue how long it would roughly take for salinity levels to balance back out after flooding?? Could it make winter Luderick in 2024 a write off? I have been seeing online vids of many rockfishmen have success but not a whole lot of NSW estury fisherman, so salinity seems to be the issue. 

[Green Hornet]

22 minutes ago, Peter KH said:

Any clue how long it would roughly take for salinity levels to balance back out after flooding?? Could it make winter Luderick in 2024 a write off? I have been seeing online vids of many rockfishmen have success but not a whole lot of NSW estury fisherman, so salinity seems to be the issue. 

It really depends on the weather and if we get follow up rain or not. I know the Georges is a big river with a large catchment, so it could take months. Best bet is take a drive out Cronulla way to scout out some backup spots to collect cabbage and weed.

[Peter KH]

Very interesting, I live on the far Western side of the shire, cronulla takes about 40 mins, meanwhile, I've got the georges just seconds away. totally get what your saying, but I might just take the boat towards botany much more fun then getting in a car. Anyway, I'll have to try again soon, actually, Im likely going to give the ludrick a go right now seen as I have nothing better to do. Ill let you know if I get so much as a bite. 

[Green Hornet]

17 minutes ago, Peter KH said:

Very interesting, I live on the far Western side of the shire, cronulla takes about 40 mins, meanwhile, I've got the georges just seconds away. totally get what your saying, but I might just take the boat towards botany much more fun then getting in a car. Anyway, I'll have to try again soon, actually, Im likely going to give the ludrick a go right now seen as I have nothing better to do. Ill let you know if I get so much as a bite. 

I’m not too familiar with the area as I live down the south coast, but if you’re in the boat, surely you could find some around Botany Bay where the water is a bit cleaner. Perhaps the navigation buoys/markers or the abandoned oyster lease poles up in Woolaware Bay.
If all else fails you could buy a couple of weed flies and give them a go under a float, or try a bread berley and bait.

[wazatherfisherman]

Agree with Green Hornet re the amount of freshwater this season. Another thing to consider is- at times of minimal growth/available food, the fish themselves might  be eating the new growth, either at higher tides or low light/dark periods.

Whenever a good patch of weed grows in lower Sydney Harbour, there are normally fish in very close proximity to it and it 'disappears' quite quickly

[slowjigger]

It tends to die off in the winter time as well. If the water is clear to look at - ie not muddy then it's worth a fish. I am planning on having a look this weekend and might give it a try next weekend. Though I am normally lure fishing for jewies, EPs etc. 

[Peter KH]

Thanks everyone,

GreenHornet, there certainly are a few places towards Botany where it does grow and the fishing is good there. Seems like things are thriving there because of the higher salinity. I am definitely looking into doing some fly tying because Ive had some great success with rod binding and wouldn't mind doing some flies. I've just starting making two of my own blackish floats, used a chopstick and an old cork, a modified safety pin. 

Waza it never put much thought to that, a 2-3 months back I saw some 20-25cm models taking a chew of the weed off the pontoons around dusk so it definitely is likely.

Slowjigger, after the rains it was very dark, muddy and stained by all the tannins. However it has been a month or so and the water is back to a normal greenish colour. When looking down I can see to about 1-1.5 metres before it just becomes a blur of estuary green. In previous years I haven't found the weed to die back to harshly like this year during winter months. 

Anyway, I hope that once I can start getting some winter blackish these few months I want to start trying with a fly I might tie myself and use on the standard cabbage weed setup. 

Cheers all, sorry for the late reply, things got pretty busy.

Peter.

 

PS. When I went for a fish around 2:30-3PM I tried some of that longer stringy weed, absolutely no luck. Also the wind wasn't very good either. 

 

 

[XD351]

There are a couple of factors at play , salinity and turbidity. The salt water weed doesn’t like lots of fresh water which floats on top of salt water in a flood situation, the weed ( which is really an algae ) needs UV light to grow so murky water and the sun being lower in the sky in winter will slow it’s growth down. 
Look up Ulva intestinalis  or Ulva lactuca on the interwebby and you can dive into the fascinating world of green algae ! 

Still haven’t got around to the home grown stuff ! Still waiting for the fresh water to dissipate so I can get some decent salt water that has some algae in it to seed the tank . 

[Peter KH]

Thank XD351,

I honestly had no idea that the fresh water floats to the top, really fascinating, looked it up and seems its a common experiment done in primary school, i must have blocked my ears that day!

Ill have a deeper dive into those websites later on today. As for your homegrown weed, could you do a report or start a new thread when you get the ball rolling, I'd love to see your results and the process to get it to work. 

Cheers,

Peter

[Green Hornet]

@Peter KH if you type Tupperware into the search section, a few topics down is a title “Storing Green Weed” or something like that. In that thread I wrote about how I’ve grown weed at home in the past. Works well though I don’t bother these days, as since then I’ve found a spot where I can gather it regularly and consistently.
 

[Peter KH]

Thanks all.

Green hornet: Ive had a look for it, not sure i found the exact article. However, I saw some posts by you mentioning the use of an aerator. Normally year round there is plenty at home, just this year because of the rain its made sourcing it a bit more tricky, if it doesn't start developing past the budding stage I might look into collecting some from the ocean rocks and growing my own for the mean time at home. 

XD351: I did a bit of reading regarding the two different scientific names for the weed and you have hit the nail on the head. Currently the only weed growing slightly is the ulva intestinalis, but typically the weed which grows is Ulva lactuca. Just wondering if you have had better luck with either of those species. When I've tried with intestinalis nothing bites, when I use the lactuca, i catch luderick. Have you had experience with catching blackies on intestinalis??

Cheers, Pete.

[XD351]

Generally in the rivers the hairy stuff seemed to work better ( for me anyway) and closer to the ocean cabbage always seemed better . Sometimes they want the black weed I have found that sometimes it is the fine hairy stuff and others it is a much coarser weed they go for - different systems , different weed , different tides are all part of the puzzle inside of the puzzle that is luderick fishing - you just got to experiment and keep trying .

You could try the spots below for weed - no guarantees of any being there . 

[Peter KH]

Thanks for the location tips much appreciated. As for the black hair type algae, I always thought that it was never touched by blackies, perhaps I should try it, i think there are some small amounts around in my area. Ill have to do some testing as you suggested. 

Have a great evening.

Pete.

[Peter KH]

An update, the Ulva intestinalis looking weed has become much more prominent now, every 2nd or so pontoon has a few small bunches growing in small patches. I have finally felt brave enough to use some knowing there was pretty much just enough for the weed to healthy come back and grow more quickly. 

So pretty much a week after making this thread, many of the budding weed has now started developing and getting thicker, great signs.

Anyway, so about 15 mins before the tide finished the outgoing run, I tried out some of this weed, first cast, hooked a 27.5cm blackie, then 2nd cast caught a 35cm luderick. In the time taken to recollect weed, do a small amount of burleying and re applying bait, I only managed to catch 2 luderick in about 15 mins, before I gave up because there was literally no current at all. Anyway, very promising signs knowing that the weed is starting to develop now, and the luderick are certainly making their way up the George's river again. Was very tempted to get a few fillets out of them and have then for afternoon tea, but decided to release them so the local numbers can stay high.

Bad news is I'm back at school tomorrow any i only got 1 luderick session the whole holidays......

Cheers, Peter.

[ireallylovefishies22]

I've found the same this year, the weed supplies at estuary locations such as Balmain are much more sparse than previous years. I think your best bet is to go to the ocean rocks to find sufficient amounts of weed (might be a bit of a hassle though). As for the luderick themselves, this was my first every year properly targetting them so I might not know how many you might usually get. In saying that, I've had plenty of success this winter, with around 5 or 6 fish per session.

[mrsswordfisherman]

On 7/18/2024 at 4:25 PM, wazatherfisherman said:

Agree with Green Hornet re the amount of freshwater this season. Another thing to consider is- at times of minimal growth/available food, the fish themselves might  be eating the new growth, either at higher tides or low light/dark periods.

Whenever a good patch of weed grows in lower Sydney Harbour, there are normally fish in very close proximity to it and it 'disappears' quite quickly

swordie has had 2 successful harbour sessions in the past week. The cost to go get weed and then go back to fish the next day is not exciting. 

The meals have been delicious though  

[Green Hornet]

1 hour ago, mrsswordfisherman said:

swordie has had 2 successful harbour sessions in the past week. The cost to go get weed and then go back to fish the next day is not exciting. 

The meals have been delicious though  

With a decent size bucket and an aerator, Swordie would have no problem keeping weed at home in perfect condition for at least a month. He only needs to bring home some water from where he collects the weed and as it evaporates, top up with tank or rainwater.

[Little_Flatty]

1 hour ago, mrsswordfisherman said:

The cost to go get weed and then go back to fish the next day is not exciting. 

Agreed! It’s an epic trek to collect bait at times.

All my local sources are barren at present so it’s off to the beaches if I want any weed or cabbage. Have been trying on fly but without berley I haven’t yet succeeded in catching anything (though I’ve had a few missed downs).

[Peter KH]

Just tied my first green fly, I'm thinking that I might try doing the double hook method that has been written about recently on other threads. 1 hook with actual cabbage weed, and then the other hook with the my fly, just to see how the blackies react to the fly. 

In past years i normally don't burley up as the blackies are normally feeding, however this year has been a bit more quiet up river, I did try some burley the other day, however, I haven't really found that it has made much of a different. 

[Green Hornet]

1 hour ago, Peter KH said:

Just tied my first green fly, I'm thinking that I might try doing the double hook method that has been written about recently on other threads. 1 hook with actual cabbage weed, and then the other hook with the my fly, just to see how the blackies react to the fly. 

In past years i normally don't burley up as the blackies are normally feeding, however this year has been a bit more quiet up river, I did try some burley the other day, however, I haven't really found that it has made much of a different. 

I’m the same and don’t use berley at all. I only fish a small handful of spots and know exactly where and when the fish are actively feeding. I find that if I add berley into the equation all it does is attract small fish into the school.

Good luck with the fly.

[Peter KH]

Well said, the more experience out on the water, fishing the same area will help build that knowledge of the spots that work and where the fish seem to regularly be feeding.

1 hour ago, Green Hornet said:

I’m the same and don’t use berley at all. I only fish a small handful of spots and know exactly where and when the fish are actively feeding. I find that if I add berley into the equation all it does is attract small fish into the school.

Good luck with the fly.

 

 

[mrsswordfisherman]

6 hours ago, Green Hornet said:

With a decent size bucket and an aerator, Swordie would have no problem keeping weed at home in perfect condition for at least a month. He only needs to bring home some water from where he collects the weed and as it evaporates, top up with tank or rainwater.

Sure and he has done that in the past. He used to run large tropical fish tanks. He had the weed on top with lights!!

There are enough works and projects in the 2 car garage (no cars) to do him for now 😂😂

@Green Hornet he said to ask you where can he get the weed so he can bring it home with the water in the bucket 😎

 

[Green Hornet]

14 hours ago, mrsswordfisherman said:

Sure and he has done that in the past. He used to run large tropical fish tanks. He had the weed on top with lights!!

There are enough works and projects in the 2 car garage (no cars) to do him for now 😂😂

@Green Hornet he said to ask you where can he get the weed so he can bring it home with the water in the bucket 😎

 

Ha, I’m the opposite and have just sold off most of my builders equipment and tools so I can fit both cars in the garage.

 I can’t say I can really help Swordie on where to get the weed, unless he’s willing to drive to Sussex Inlet or Ulladulla 😁