Help with understanding reel Maintainance

[Peter K]

Morning Raiders,

Hope all is well.

I pretty much only use Daiwa gear unless it's a custom built rod that I've made (samurai blanks - fuji). The main reel I've been using quite frequently recently is the Daiwa 23 Kix 2500. Well Ive used it for about 6-8 months or so and the last 2 months Ive had an issue. It occurs I would say about 1 in every 5 times I go fishing. The reel doesn't make a sand/salty cracking grinding sound when I reel, however, it just makes this strange squeaky, dry sound. Sometimes I wonder if something is rubbing against something else, or if the main shaft is dry, I've got no clue. All I've ever done is take the drag knob off, then take the spool off and check for any debris, sometimes that resolves it in the moment, however, this keeps recurring, not sure if its got to do with the cold mornings or wind we have had causing this while I fish. 

I'm wondering if anybody can explain the purpose and how to apply the Daiwa reel greaser and oiler. And also, what is the general maintenance I should be doing on such a reel, this is the first reel I've spend decent money on ($300), and I'd like to take care of it, because I use my gear so frequency, I just put it in the boatshed on my rod rack and leave it, as of recent Ive been rinsing my guides but that's it. I've seen/heard of washing the spool and reel, however, I'm hesitant of whether or not I should do this, the reel has magseal technology and I am not sure if washing it would harm it. If anybody has experience with the Kix, Daiwa reels in general or just basic maintenance any tips would really be appreciated.

When I searched the site for general maintenance a few were from quite a few years back and with reel technology changing heaps I thought I'm better off checking for nowadays. 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited October 12 by Peter K

[XD351]

Are you using braid ? 
I have had it where the braid loops around the bail arm and it makes the braid sing as it goes through . Might be a salt build up on the bail roller or the braid riding up on the end of the roller . I don’t think it is internal , some reels will make a bit of whirring noise after a while due to the noise coming from the one way bearing - this is normal . Modern reels don’t require too much in the way of maintenance- rinse off after each use , a fine mist or take it into the shower and do it under that . All I do is put a drop of oil on the line roller , bail arm pivots and handle and a small dab of grease on the main shaft every 15 or 20 trips and a bit on the gears maybe once a year  - don’t fall into the trap of killing it with care ! 

[Peter K]

Thanks @XD351

3 minutes ago, XD351 said:

Are you using braid ? 
I have had it where the braid loops around the bail arm and it makes the braid sing as it goes through . Might be a salt build up on the bail roller or the braid riding up on the end of the roller . I don’t think it is internal , some reels will make a bit of whirring noise after a while due to the noise coming from the one way bearing - this is normal . Modern reels don’t require too much in the way of maintenance- rinse off after each use , a fine mist or take it into the shower and do it under that . All I do is put a drop of oil on the line roller , bail arm pivots and handle and a small dab of grease on the main shaft every 15 or 20 trips and a bit on the gears maybe once a year  - don’t fall into the trap of killing it with care ! 

Yes, Ive got daiwa expedition 8lb braid spooled up. The rod/reel is all functioning as designed there are no looping occurring. There could be a salt build up on the bail roller, how would I clean that/extract the build up? The whirling type sound only occurs after a long cast and I start reeling back in, it goes for about 5 seconds then stops, sometimes stops and starts.

If I run it under a tap is the pressure to strong, should I just let the water trickle out? Is it worth getting a spray bottle, just for my rod/reels?

Cheers, Peter

[XD351]

It could be the braid itself doing it .  Are you sure you are not getting a tip wrap ? 
salt build up will come off when you rinse the reel  . You can use a spray bottle if you don’t have a hose and nozzle ( you only want a fine mist ) - a pump spray bottle isn’t expensive- get a cheap one from Bunnings - the reason you don’t use anything that puts out water pressure is it tends to wash the salt and sand further into the reel where as a fine soft mist will wash it away . It’s also a good idea to tighten the drag a little before rinsing and release it once the reel has drip dried - leaving a drag tight for long periods can bugger it .

[Peter K]

2 minutes ago, XD351 said:

It could be the braid itself doing it .  Are you sure you are not getting a tip wrap ? 
salt build up will come off when you rinse the reel  . You can use a spray bottle if you don’t have a hose and nozzle ( you only want a fine mist ) - a pump spray bottle isn’t expensive- get a cheap one from Bunnings - the reason you don’t use anything that puts out water pressure is it tends to wash the salt and sand further into the reel where as a fine soft mist will wash it away . It’s also a good idea to tighten the drag a little before rinsing and release it once the reel has drip dried - leaving a drag tight for long periods can bugger it .

I do get tip wraps often, however, I am quite certain the braid isn't the fault of this reel sound, it isn't getting tangled on anything and is passing through the guides fine, yet this random, whirling, dry sound occurs every now and then. Ill perhaps try washing my reel more regularly and do a some oil/greasing every month or two and try to see if it improves, I'm just not sure what causes it. 

Thanks, Pete

[XD351]

If it is still functioning properly , isn’t tightening, grinding or locking up I wouldn’t worry about it . It could be something inherent with the mag seal set up for all I know - maybe do an internet search for that ?

[Peter K]

Everything is working fine, no lock locking up, seizing or struggling to reel, just a random sound it makes.

Does magseal effect the way i would do a regular oil/grease or is it fine to do it the way you suggested? 

Thanks for your advice and help, @XD351

[XD351]

No mag seal is inside the anti reverse bearing - edit some have a mag seal line roller as well  . It’s a gimmick imho and you can’t but the new grease from Daiwa- you have to buy from elsewhere. 
one thing I would do is wrap some line around the line roller( 2 loops ) and pull it back and forth to make sure the line roller is operating freely and not making any noise .

 

Edited October 12 by XD351

[Green Hornet]

Terrific advice offered by @XD351.

Magseal isn’t the “be all and end all” of reel maintenance. When I stripped my Morethan 3012H after a couple of years of hard use the magnetic oil had all but disappeared and wasn’t protecting the reel at all. Don’t rely on it to the extent that light maintenance isn’t required. I never bothered having the mag oil replaced as I enjoy maintaining my own reels and the magseal had nothing to do with why I bought that reel in the first place.

Check your bail arm line roller is functioning as it should and that there isn’t excessive free play, which could explain a failed bearing, or that it is jammed by salt or grit. Even though my line roller is magsealed, I still give it a light squirt with Inox MX5, (not WD40 or CRC) occasionally. Don’t know if it helps, but certainly can’t hurt.

Assuming you leave the reel on the rod, an easy way to wash everything down is to use a garden hose with one of those trigger operated nozzles with the adjustable spray settings, set on mist. Hold it away from the reel so it only gets a light mist, but give it a good soaking. Stand the rod up against the wall when doing this, so water can’t run up under the spool and possibly find its way inside the reel. Also make sure you tighten your drag before rinsing and back it off later.

I would hazard a guess that if your reel is still easy to wind and you can’t feel any crunching through the handle when you retrieve, the problem is centered around the bail roller.

There’s plenty of good YouTube clips on reel maintenance that are worth watching.

 

 

 

[Steve0]

This is general but does contain information related to Daiwa in daily care https://www.alanhawk.com/blog/care.html

[Peter K]

18 minutes ago, XD351 said:

No mag seal is inside the anti reverse bearing . It’s a gimmick imho . 
one thing I would do is wrap some line around the line roller( 2 loops ) and pull it back and forth to make sure the line roller is operating freely and not making any noise .

 

Thanks @XD351, just checked the line roller and it is running smoothy without any foreign sounds occurring. I think I've watched the video a year or two back, Ill give it a watch again.

11 minutes ago, Green Hornet said:

Terrific advice offered by @XD351.

Magseal isn’t the “be all and end all” of reel maintenance. When I stripped my Morethan 3012H after a couple of years of hard use the magnetic oil had all but disappeared and wasn’t protecting the reel at all. Don’t rely on it to the extent that light maintenance isn’t required. I never bothered having the mag oil replaced as I enjoy maintaining my own reels and the magseal had nothing to do with why I bought that reel in the first place.

Check your bail arm line roller is functioning as it should and that there isn’t excessive free play, which could explain a failed bearing, or that it is jammed by salt or grit. Even though my line roller is magsealed, I still give it a light squirt with Inox MX5, (not WD40 or CRC) occasionally. Don’t know if it helps, but certainly can’t hurt.

Assuming you leave the reel on the rod, an easy way to wash everything down is to use a garden hose with one of those trigger operated nozzles with the adjustable spray settings, set on mist. Hold it away from the reel so it only gets a light mist, but give it a good soaking. Stand the rod up against the wall when doing this, so water can’t run up under the spool and possibly find its way inside the reel. Also make sure you tighten your drag before rinsing and back it off later.

I would hazard a guess that if your reel is still easy to wind and you can’t feel any crunching through the handle when you retrieve, the problem is centered around the bail roller.

There’s plenty of good YouTube clips on reel maintenance that are worth watching.

 

 

 

Thanks @Green Hornet, a preface, when I bought the reel sure I could have found one that weighs less but the true reason I got it is because of the green/black/gold colour scheme as stupid as that sounds. I built a rod to match the reel and here's a photo of the feature wrap i did.

I don't know if I fully believe magseal, however, I have plenty of reels doing just fine, with and without it so buy the reel because of having magseal wasn't my main priority.

Line roller is functioning fine after just checking.

3 minutes ago, Steve0 said:

This is general but does contain information related to Daiwa in daily care https://www.alanhawk.com/blog/care.html

Thanks Steve, ill check it out. Edit, I've actually read that article before, however Ill view it again.

Edited October 12 by Peter K

[Green Hornet]

@Peter K Nice looking wrap and definitely not stupid at all. Years ago, I used to build custom rods for my local tackle store and the colours of the reel was always a strong consideration when choosing the binding colours to accentuate the outfit as a whole.

[Peter K]

Thats really cool GH, I doubt there's much of a market for rod builders in Sydney these days though, as a hobby perhaps, but not for a living. I liked what the specs and stuff had to say regarding the Kix, green being my favourite colour was a bonus, all that i had to do was custom build a rod. The reels biggest downfall is the weight, its like 30 grams heavy in the 2500 range compared to other daiwa reels which is the only downside, however, it doesn't effect me much. 

Edit: That was one of my first time trying a 'design' wrap so the alignment was not perfect, and I learnt for future wraps that that silver layer in the centre would need to be a bit thick as in some areas it is quite faint.

Edited October 12 by Peter K

[lhan]

99% noise of my reels is from line roller or braid rubbing line roller when under pressure - especially those reels with line roller bearings instead of bushing. I also found that sometimes stripper guide noise is mistakenly treated as reel noise by myself... Shimano is proven to have this issue in a relatively short timeframe but Daiwa reels also suffer from it I believe. What I found useful is to wash the line roller and braid lightly after each usage, it will help remove salt/debris from lines/whatever already at the line roller bit. The rest of the reel isn't much exposed to saltwater during normal usage for me so I just wipe it with a wet tower (like a mist spray I guess).

For me all my Daiwa reels are smoother than others without load and tend to be very quiet just reeling it. Shimano/Penn on the other hand always has some gearing sound when reeling it in a quiet place and Penn definitely isn't shimming as well as Japanese reels. But when putting under proper load they're all smooth in their own way - just those shimano reels always have a noisy line roller in 6-12 months.

[Rob81]

Yeah as all above has mentioned, it sounds like its the roller bearing but then I just looked up the schematics of your reel and you dont have bearings there. Not all reels would have bearings there, sometimes its just a bushing.

Link of the schematics I just looked up: https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Daiwa/Kix/Daiwa KIX LT 2500D.pdf

Usually that squeek is as you say, dry, you could always just put one drop of oil in and then spin it (if you do not want to open it up). The braid itself wouldnt make that noise, but the braid as it passes through would be spinning the bearing/bushing to create that noise.

Its always a good idea to cleaned your gear after a salt water fishing session, salt isnt just on the water but can also in the air, so a simple rinse when you get home should do it. Just make sure for reels to lock the drag first, rince, dry and then loosen the drag again. If you have felt drag washers, you should leave the drag loose when not in use.

[Peter K]

5 minutes ago, Rob81 said:

Yeah as all above has mentioned, it sounds like its the roller bearing but then I just looked up the schematics of your reel and you dont have bearings there. Not all reels would have bearings there, sometimes its just a bushing.

Link of the schematics I just looked up: https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Daiwa/Kix/Daiwa KIX LT 2500D.pdf

Usually that squeek is as you say, dry, you could always just put one drop of oil in and then spin it (if you do not want to open it up). The braid itself wouldnt make that noise, but the braid as it passes through would be spinning the bearing/bushing to create that noise.

Its always a good idea to cleaned your gear after a salt water fishing session, salt isnt just on the water but can also in the air, so a simple rinse when you get home should do it. Just make sure for reels to lock the drag first, rince, dry and then loosen the drag again. If you have felt drag washers, you should leave the drag loose when not in use.

Thanks rob, gave it a rinse and dry down this morning. In regards to the link you sent, how do you know if that's the 2023 kix, or 2019 kix? 

https://daiwafishing.com.au/pages/light-take-spin-reel-schematics

I think may just need to give oil a go, it hasn't made the noise in the past week or two worth of use which is a good sign.  

[Rob81]

I personally couldnt tell with kix, but whenever they have new models, they dont really change the amount or locations of bearings. Alot of the "New Technology", half the time is something they had previously or they slightly bent something a little more and gave it a name. So its generally marketing. In other cases the changes can be drastic but I dont think they added a roller bearing in this case.

Alot of the time for that level reel tends to be cosmetics.

Edited Monday at 06:14 AM by Rob81