zmk1962
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Posts posted by zmk1962
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billfisher has got me worried about making two posts on the same topic....is that an unspoken rule guys and gals???
....Anyway - here is what I remember from my past:
Corrosion - oxidation - is the process of metal atoms binding with oxygen atoms creating an oxide layer - if the metal is iron - the product is FeO2 iron oxide or "rust". If its aluminium the product is aluminium oxide etc.
Galvanic corrosion is a different process - one that does not involve Oxygen per se. As billfisher pointed out "With galvanic corrosion or in a galvanic cell one metal robs the other metal of electrons. it's also called a Redox reaction (short for reduction/ oxidisation)."
So they are two different processes.
The interesting thing though -- with some metals the oxide layer is actually a VERY good barrier to further oxidation because the oxide layer is impervious to additional Oxygen atoms reaching the metal underneath. The oxide is like a self protecting skin. Aluminium is one of those metals. Aluminium is actually very reactive. Aluminium oxide is very inert. Ever noticed how when you cut aluminium it is really shiny - that's the base metal - and within a very short period of time that shiny metal becomes a dull oxidised metal colour - thats the aluminium oxide that has formed on the surface and no further oxidation takes place. So aluminium gets its durability from its oxide coating.
Iron/steel on the other hand is different. Iron Oxide allows oxygen through and hence the "rust" just keeps going.
An then comes the topic of stainless steel (alloys). From memory stainless steel is an alloy of several atoms the main being Iron/Carbon/Chromium etc... the Chromium binds with oxygen and forms Chromium tri-oxide - impervious to oxygen - that's the shiny skin on stainless steel. If you paint stainless, or mould a plastic handle onto a stainless blade, or leave greasy finger prints on stainless --- at the edge where the stainless steel meets the paint/oil/plastic - you will eventually see "rust". Why??... the Chromium cannot get a 3rd Oxygen atom to bind there and hence some iron atoms are left exposed to bind with Oxygen and then you get good old "rust" on your stainless. So keep your stainless clean guys and just expect that you will get some rust wherever your stainless work joins something else - simple rub with s/steel wool rexposes the chromium and all will be good for a while again !!
Hope that helps Antony.
.... and now that I have completely gone off topic it really is time for that morning cuppa....
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I'm with Fab1 on his comments - they are spot on from my experience. Use copious quantities of fresh water to dissolve away the salt rather then high pressure to drive the salt water further in. When I can't get to fresh water immediately - I try and displace as much as I can.
I remember I wrote about this in a previous chat - but in short after I have launched my boat and reversed the trailer in the parking bay... I run around with a spray can of silicon spray (preferred) or Lanox (Inox with Lanolin) and using the little plastic tube I squirt a bit inbetween the brake pad and the caliper hyraudalic cylinder ram. This helps displace the salt water that's in there. This has significantly extended the time between services.
I have a set of Trigg hubs/rotors and calipers that gave me trouble with seizing for a while. Eventually a very good mechanic put a micrometer over the disc rotor and found that it was slighly oversized (probably built that way for marine use in anticipation of rust and hence allowing rapid wear down). There was just not enough clearance with the pads that were being put in (with spacers). So we looked for a different thinner brand and all has been good since.
BTW, I also run a hydrostar Carlise controller.
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Sorry TunaSickle, I'm with billfisher on this one. Its galvanic corrosion you need to worry about - put two dissimilar metals in an electolyte solution and the less noble metal WILL corrode.
The fact that your boat is painted buys you time until the paint fails (starting usually at joints/welds where expansion and contraction movement is most concentrated).
Why not try a simple test - drop a 5c coin onto a piece of aluminum in a jar of salt water. Maybe you can post photos of your experiment at say 1day, 1week, 1month !!!!
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I use old reo bars (get the big thick stuff from construction sites) and a Bunnings Ozito drop saw to cut to 1ft or so lenghts. Don't bother trying to drill for the line, just wrap a bit of coathanger or fencing wire to form a loop -- the weights don't last long enough to bother being fancy and drilling them.
Re electric. The guys that come out with me have used a Miya Epoch 8 and swear by it, and others Tanacom Bulls 1000 - they do the job at Brown's esp for the mate that has a bung shoulder.
Like Oz Brett above said, I hit Brown's maybe 3 times in a year and for me purchasing an electric is interesting but down on my priority list at present...so for the deep stuff I am very old school and use an Alvey SeaKing manual winch (1.1m lift per turn) - indestructible item which I have modified with what I consider a better pulley/boom arrangement than the little s/s spigot they come with.... I brought up a 20kg bar cod faster than the epoch brought up 2 gemmies.
Mind you if I had to do it 2-3 times in a row the electric would win.... but then there are boat catch limits to watch !
As with anything with boating/fishing... what problem are you trying to solve with the electric reel ??
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Hi Commodore - yes I did. Thank you. I sent an SMS back straight away (think it was Sunday night).... I'll go and check my phone now!
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I read above that you have a breather hose fitted -- But have you checked the length of the breather - is it kinked or blocked anywhere?? Replace it if you are in doubt.
I had an intermittent problem where my motor would not rev up from troll speed - when I applied throttle it would tend to die down and splutter like running our of fuel - when that happened I had to try and "goose" the throttle controls and eventually she would rev up... Long story short, after several good mechanics had already gone over and given a thumbs up to the motor, pump and filters I was about to accept this as a "feature" of the motor but then by chance while working on another bit I had my neck in close to where the hoses connected with the tank and notices that the breather was kinked. Changed the breather hose and the problem has not reappeared since. So my conclusion was if everything was flat and level - vapour would get thru the kink and the tank would breathe - hence most of the time everything was fine, but if some fuel had pushed up past the kink (like when you troll through swell) this trapped fuel would restrict the tank breathing and hence added restriction on sucking fuel when trying to rev up.
You also mentioned that when you fill up "it appeared full with fuel coming up the clear filler hose" - was there fuel coming out of your breather?? If not, then again this is pointing to a breather problem.
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We are all left guessing until VOLITAN (Arron) surfaces - my 2c is he is trying to assess if he has the gear shift in the correct position after re-assembly.
So on that assumption ... Arron: If the engine is in gear you should not be able to turn the prop without significant force, if its in neutral you will hear the clicking when you spin the prop. But I am not sure how you would tell if you are in forward or reverse just by spinning the prop.
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PM sent Commodore.
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I'm thinking of converting my canvas bimini to a hardtop. Can anyone recommend a fiberglassing service - preferably in the Hills area?
Thanks.
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Yup. The unit had a "road mode" .... tried it... only to hear sweet sounds of radio static... so back to the drawing board and my original request. Anyone living in Hills area that has a GME 27mhz antenna that I may borrow for a few hours. Please PM me. Thanks Raiders.
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Hi Tef1on... Thanks for the reply. I am not hearing anything when on the water the last few trips - no weather nothing except radio "noise". Even in scan mode going through all the channels for hours at a time I am not picking up the weather etc etc. My conclusion was -- No point asking maritime for a radio check - as I would not hear the reply !
My set is an old GME GX300 unit... good call to check if it has a "road mode". I'll go and dig the manual out now. Cheers.
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Hi Raiders,
Last few trips my 27mhz has gone silent... lights are on, some noise comes out of the speakers but cannot hear any chatter - so cannot even test I am transmitting.
There is lots of talk of 27mhz going away, I don't want to start spending lots on trying to get the 27mhz system working again. But since I did find it useful with clubs and colleagues on occasions I would like to do a basic test to figure out which component has failed - radio / cable / antenna.
I'm looking for someone in the Hills area that may have a 27mhz antenna with a base like the one in the picture - I would love to borrow it for a few hours to connect to my set up and check if I can hear anything - or score a radio check response.
PM me if you can help. Thanks Raiders...
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Agree with oz_brett you have the option to install inside the hull....I have the transducer mounted inside my glass hull and "shooting thru"... FYI I have not found I have lost temp reading. Mine is a deep V hull and the transducer is mounted deep in the well just before the bungs where there is always some water... there is another topic started by VViCKiD (Transducer Installation) where I summarized my experiences comparing the temp reads at this point vs outside water.
But you have to be sure your hull bottom is solid glass and there is no plywood or other sandwich material between the transducer and the water - just fiberglass ..... I have outlined in the other post how to test if your hull is suitable. If you are interested to discuss how to do the installation - PM me your mobile and I will text you a few times that I am available in between work. Cheers.
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True, it will read the temp of the water (and there is always some water) in the bottom of the hull which will stabilize with outside water temp over time - so in the purest sense there will be a temp reading delay with the thru hull set up. But practically I have not seen much difference. Since my sounder also accepted and external Temp/speed impeller in the Aux port I ran with that for many years -- on a few occasions early on we even used the deck wash to fill up the well and compare what it was reading previously and the temp of the fresh water we had added to the well (with the bilge going). The difference I noted was negligible and going forward I was happy enough to just use the thru hull.
I have a deep V so it does sit deep in the water at the back.
PS - I eventually disconnected the impeller and ext temp source as I now use the Aux port to send an NMEA GPS location signal to my VHF radio - flick of a button and the VHF transmits my current location.
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A suggestion before you start bolting more on the stern. I see from the picture its a glass hull and you have a large bung to the left of the transducer -- I presume there is probably a well in the hull behind the bung. If the bottom of your hull is solid glass in the well area you have an opportunity to mount the transducer inside. I have done this and I have nothing projecting from the back of the hull - no rooster tail, no drag, nothing to snag, nothing to damage and no discernible loss of signal or performance. I can sound bottom at Browns and can read bottom up to near WOT.
If interested - to test this approach, fill some salt water in the well, place your transducer in there and put a wet sand bag or something similar on top to keep it weighted down. Take the boat for a run. You can play around with the position of the transducer within the limits of your well size. If you like the result, note the position of the transducer and fibregalss resin it into place. As fibreglass and resin are the same density as water they do not impact performance - however if you use silicone it WILL significantly reduce transducer performance.I understand it is a bit of a pain when you want to change transducers/systems (I've changed mine once in 15yrs) - but consider how often do you do that vs how trouble free a working through hull set up can be.
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I have attached a picture of the basic wiring for the connections. This was from -
http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?775-DIY-Guide-to-Trailer-Plugs
The basic 7pin configuration is replicated in the 12pin configuration - and 12pin has additional pins like Pin 9 for Aux Battery charging. Pin 5 is the braking signal common to both.
But it sounds like you are replicating my old 7pin configuration - which was legal unless your rig is over 2T and has to go to a HVIS for rego (Heavy Vehicle Inspection Station) which required the in car monitoring of the trailer battery.
So if you have 7pin trailer and 7pin car then you are running only one circuit for the brakes - and this should be wired on the trailer to power both the brakes and to charge your trailer battery. (The battery charging will only occur when the car brakes are applied). Pin 5 is what your trailer brakes should be running off - and the car circuit feeding Pin 5 should be hardy enough to take the brake load of all the trailer brakes and the trailer battery charging. If you have just tapped into the car tail light to feed Pin 5 I doubt you will get enough current through pin 5 to drive the trailer brakes and charge the battery - you may have enough to activate the trailer brake controller but it may be drawing current from the trailer battery to do the actual work of powering the brakes.
Ideally Pin 5 should be supplied through a separate relay in the car activated by your brake circuit. Also ideally on the trailer - the brake battery charge circuit being fed from Pin 5 should have a diode (to only allow current flow one way into the battery) and not allow the battery to drive the trailer brakes - preserving its charge for emergency use.
Ofcourse there will be a separate circuit from the trailer battery through the breakaway switch to power the brakes in the event of a disconnection from the car in emergency.
Not sure if this is helping!
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I don't have a Redarc system so can only go of my experience with my much older cobmination of Hayman Reese controller + Carlisle Hydrastar trailer brake unit. It sounds like your wiring between the Redarc in the car and the trailer is incorrect or incompatible or faulty. There seems to be a charging circuit from the vehicle to the trailer that is missing or in-operational. As I understand it, your trailer brakes should ONLY run off the trailer battery when the breakaway switch has been pulled out of its socket. During normal operation when the trailer is connected to the vehicle brake power is drawn from the vehicle -- it should not be running off the battery.
You said you recently installed a Redarc controller in the car, what is on the trailer? Is that a Redarc unit or wired to be compatible with your Redarc in car controller? Can you track down the wiring of the trailer?
In my case for 10yrs I ran with the flat 7pin connector between the car and trailer, but I had to upgrade my existing system to comply with RTA standards (namely in car monitoring of the trailer brake battery condition) and this forced an upgrade to the 12pin connectors to accommodate the additional charge and monitoring circuits that were required. As a first check what is on your car and trailer 7 or 12pins?
From memory in the past you were able to activate the trailer brakes and charge the trailer battery off your brake light signal in the car...but to meet the current requirements that are being enforced regarding monitoring the trailer battery condition from the normal driving position, you have to disconnect the charging while you were sampling the battery - otherwise you are just monitoring your vehicles charging circuit. This required a separate circuit to be installed just for charging the trailer battery - which could be isolated during sampling period. The operation of the trailer brakes when connected was still through the vehicle brake circuit (not from the trailer battery). The modern controllers like the Redarc may be expecting separated wiring, but your trailer may be wired differently. Hence why RTA now expects trailers to have a sticker that they must be towed by a vehicle with a "compatible system" and both must be presented as a set at rego time of the trailer.
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I just did a quick search of the Redarc site... this is what they say regarding shade of red "Application of the brakes from the foot brake or the manual button on the controller will change the LED to red - the shade of red indicating to what degree the brakes are being applied."
Shade of red seems to be related to the braking gain you have set. Have you changed the braking level in-between application of the brakes??
http://www.redarc.com.au/products/product/remote-mount-electric-trailer-brake-controller/
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Agree Swifty13.... I wrote a fairly long post in this topic earlier -- scroll up to 12 September 2014... I documented my experiences there.
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Unfortunaltely I am one of those that forked out $4000 in repairs to my EFI 2 Stroke having been sold a dud batch of fuel with alcohol which separated over time in the EFI pump causing it to seize - so although I am not a mechanic I have an expensive past experience to underpin my caution. I am also a Chemical Engineer so have a basic understanding of the underlying processes to mix insolvent liquids to create emulsions or miscible solutions. So while I agree with you that adding a small amount of metho is an effective method of removing water I would add to that -- only if you are going to consume the whole tank of fuel within a very short period of time - as in the case of cars with relatively small tanks driven daily. Hence, I would still generally not recommend adding metho to boat fuel to remove condensation when you consider i) if your motor is a 2-stroke it uses the fuel as a lubricant, ii) the combustion of alcohol creates water and carbon gases - that last ignition will leave some water behind, iii) most boats have significant amounts of fuel sitting idle in the tank for months at a time, iv) during this idle time the alcohol and water will separate out again and the alcohol will further break down to water and acid. So as I understand it, 4-stroke motors may not be as susceptible to issues as they have a sump and hence separate lubrication system but even then the engines have to be designed to run on petroleum-alcohol blends with many parts made out of materials resistant to the effects of the water/acid mix. ... As you say - people need to read and make their own decision based on their circustances.Do a Google search on adding methylated spirits to petrol.......will bring up pages of results.....and yes I'm one of those old mechanics, it was regularly used and done to mix the water and burn it through............anyway, Google, read and decide for yourself
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I would advise against adding Metho or other alcohols to petroleum based fuels - remebering back to my chemistry days alcohols break down to water and acid and you will end up with even MORE water in your fuel then the condensation you are trying to remove. Also most outboards out in the community are of a vintage that was not manufactured to run on fuels with alcohol content (like E10).
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I have had the same Rule 360gph on my live tank for 9yrs ... no issues with the pump - in fact I am waiting for it to fail so I can fit a bigger one - I could use the extra water flow as I have spliced into the live bait hose to run a tap on the cutting board and also a hose to fill the kill tank etc. I have the pump mounted on the stern on a s/s bracket that has a water pickup pipe with a small bend in it facing forward (bought from WWths).
When I was fitting it, I do recall being advised if I was mounting a bilge pump on top to position the bracket so as NOT to have the pipe fully immersed facing forward when the hull was planing -- as I would be forcing water at quite some pressure through the pump - leading to early pump failure. I mounted mine so just part of the outer rim of the pipe protrudes from under the hull stern - my set up works fine at all speeds.
Maybe check your setup - the position of your pickup at high speed or over time may be blowing the impeller off the spindle by forcing the water through the pump - which would explain why you can hear the pump running but get no water flow.
You may not need to reposition your bracket or pickup. I have seen some custom ally boats where the pickup was a vertical aluminum pipe cut at an angle (no bend) with just the open face of the cut facing forward and they pick up water fine. So if your pick up is like mine with a bend facing forward, maybe just saw off the bend on the pipe.
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If the rig is over 2T there are several things the in car controller must do to pass the NSW towing requirements for trailer registration - the rules include statements like you must have the charge of the battery constantly monitored from within the tow vehicle when coupled. There have been previous posts on this topic.
Live bait tank battery drainage
in Boating
Posted
Hi Hakan, we all have a first post ! Welcome "King of kings"! (...anyone that wants an explanation as to my greeting please pm me - he he he)
Mate, I don't know of anyone that keeps their engine running just to power the bait pump - it's a bit of overkill. I'll explain my set up and you can draw some conclusions from how you want to run yours.
I have 3 (640CCA) batteries across the back. Each is on an isolator switch. I run all the electricals and can start the motor from any battery or any combination of batteries. Similarly when the motor is running I can charge any combination of batteries or just the one I am running from. Typically I run off the newest (prime) battery, and only when it starts to struggle cranking the motor do I swap to the 2nd (backup battery). By run - I mean everything is drawing from that one battery. On a typical day with long offshore runs during which the battery is being recharged I rarely have to swap to the backup, unlike the days where we fish the harbour or rivers when there is more stationary time and more motor starts.
You can run your 2 battery set up in a similar way - provided both of your batteries are able to start the motor. Use one until it is discharged and move to the other - set up your charging circuit so that when you have started your motor you can re-charge one or both. Obviously if you are down to 1 battery, you may want to limit the electrical load until you have had time to recharge your 2nd. My Merc puts out 40Amps on the charging circuit - you may want to check your motor to get a sense of how much charge is going back into your batteries while under way.
The third battery is what I call my utilities battery. It is the oldest battery - this is the one I use when I pull up for a long overnight session - it runs everything all night (bait pump, night lights, sounder, deck lights and at one stage even a little TV for the kids in the cabin) on full overnight trips this battery drains to zero - especially in winter. OK my 3 way battery set up is overkill - I started with 2 - and ended up with 3 because one of the original 2 batteries was still good and I was doing a lot of overnighters at that time...... and I admit I am a bit anal and always wanted at least one charged battery for the motor.
Regarding calculating how long your battery will last running just the bait pump - here's how I would do it - perhaps one of the members with an electrical background can chip in :
1) Check the capacity rating of your batteries - you are looking for the Amp hours number
2) Check your bait pump Watt (W) rating and convert that to Amps (A). Use a calculator like the one here http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Watt_to_Amp_Calculator.htm, or the formula I=P/V I=AMPS, P=Watts, V=volts (usually 12V in your boat DC circuit)
3) Divide the Battery Amp hours by the bait pump draw in Amps and the resulting number is the number of hours that your battery should roughly last
BTW, that bin looks really big - you might have to use your sabiki jig to recatch your live bait! Are you sure you want to run around with an extra 100kg of weight on your transom - it will affect how your boat rides. My live bait tank is about 35L and I run a 350GPH pump for circulation when stationary, or just off the stainless bent tube pickup when under way.