Practical limits towing with family car

[35R]

We are getting close to buying a glass boat in the 5-6.5m range. So BMT weight is going to range from 1600 to 2200kg or thereabouts depending on choice. So here is the dilema - I currently have a WM Holden V8 Caprice which apparently tow up to 2.1T with the right kit (this has been the family car for a few years, which i will inherit as my DD and tow car).

A few boat options we are looking at are around the 1950kg mark - now - does anyone think I am pushing my luck towing almost 2T with the commodore/statesman platform? My local boatramp is Botany (off foreshore drive) which is relatively new and i hazard a guess somewhat family car friendly, but not sure.

And i will likely do a few trips down South (perhaps a couple each year).

Am I kidding myself, could i tow 2T 6+m boat with a Holden Caprice ok?

I am trying to figure out if I will need to upgrade my car , which will ultimately affect the boat budget!

Currently considering HH585 or 560, or perhaps Revival 6.4 (yes i know about Sam..) but if i have to limit the weight i would likely go with an Evo 500.

Thoughts?

[The Incredible Hull]

I used to own a VY Clubsport fitted with a hitch 2T tow bar, and at low tide at the ramp, I had troubles... car kept slipping down the ramp due to all the moss. I have seen other holdens tow a 2T boat though, but I think for trouble free reasons, get a 4wd\awd type of vehicle.

[BFB]

I think you will find that the Holden has a maximum rated towing load of 1.6 tonne. The car will tow 2 tonne, and a lot more, see how many people are towing cars on car trailers, but if you are going to tow constantly and want to be safe you will need a four wheel drive (or truck). The last thing you need is to have an accident and then find all your insurance is void because you were towing too much weight.

[oz_brett]

I dont see there being a problem at all! Im towing 1.8tonne of plate boat with a 6cyl BA station wagon and I dont have any troube at all. Just keep a few things in mind...

Replace rear springs with heavy duty (the ford has leaf springs so I added an extra leaf)

Move the boat forward on the trailer or the axles back so that you have plenty of weight (approx 10%)on the ball.

Very light on the gas when taking off on the ramp the V8 will be a disadvantage here it might spin easier then mine.

I have set up stabiliser bars on mine to keep it all level & the only problem that I do have is on the highway with the plate boat being much higher then a glass the wind goes over the car then under the boat causing the front of the boat to want to lift so I stick to 90KPH.

Ive been running this set up now for almost 5 years I would love to update the old ford but what can replace a car that owes me nothing and takes me 500kms on $40 of LPG (not towing of course) and still towes the boat up & down the coast.

Brett

Edited September 9, 2012 by oz_brett

[35R]

Thanks guys. An added dilema is that i just don't want to drive around a big 4WD every day (ie. 95% of the time i am not towing of course) it would give me the irrits no end. I dunno what to do to be frank. What about an AWD Adventra, anyone tow with those? They drive 75% the same as a regular commodore wagon IMO. Anyway I am pretty sure my car is rated for maximum of 2.1T including equaliser hitch.

[oz_brett]

according to the web site "carsales" its 2.1 they are pretty accurate. If anything I would get the boat & make do for a while you may feel theres no reason to upgrade once you get used to it.

[griffox]

Good advice from all of the above...

It's not good to be right on the limit with towing capacity.

The insurance issue is one thing to think about, but you don't want to have a prang in the first place either...

One suggestion for a good value tow vehicle is a Kia Sorento.

The older model has a 2800kg tow rating, good economy (diesel) and go for around $20K in reasonable condition.

The new models (same as the Hyundai santa Fe) actually have a lower tow rating, 2000kg for auto, 2500kg for the manual.

Just my 2 cents worth...

[alextuck]

Your car could easily tow more than 1600kg but you an not insured if you do. I recently went through this Dilemma but had purchased the boat (Haines Hunter 650R) before I realised what my vehicle could tow. I was driving a Holden SS ute and made the assumption a 5.8 litre V8 could tow anything, the car can tow the boat no problems but there was no way I was going to be driving around town uninsured. Insurance companies would be so quick to get out of a claim if they found out you were towing more than legally allowed to.

In regards to your boat I was originally looking at the Haines Hunter 585 and evolution 550/552. Go with the Haines! Far superior boat.

Hope this helps with your decisions.

[locodave]

1.6T if it's manual

2.1Tif it's auto.

I have a 5.4M cox craft, all up it weighs 1350Kg. i tow it with a commodore no problems and I have been to many ramps. It's a great size, can take 6 people and good enough to take outside. If you don't want to change your tow car, try and stay around the 1600kg mark.

[35R]

Thanks for the reply guys. I've read quite a lot of posts here and elsewhere and a lot of people say you would only be LEGALLY covered up to 1.6T on auto commodores etc. However the Holden Caprice WM V8 is rated to 2.1T (with correct tow kit etc) - and this car does NOT come in manual form. So what's the deal, why do so many people say it's only covered to 1.6T?

FWIW i came across Lewis boats (590WA) which may be what I am looking for (in terms of form/function) and weigh a little less than some others I have looked at:

1600kg apparently BMT

Perhaps optimistic but I am going to check them out

[BFB]

The correct place to find out exactly what the legal towing limits of the car is to look in the vehicle owner's manual which came with the car. It is stated in there.

I have a VE model which I can purchase a 2.1 tonne towbar from Holden to suit but the owner's manual states that I am legally allowed to tow 1.6 tonne.

[griffox]

Thanks for the reply guys. I've read quite a lot of posts here and elsewhere and a lot of people say you would only be LEGALLY covered up to 1.6T on auto commodores etc. However the Holden Caprice WM V8 is rated to 2.1T (with correct tow kit etc) - and this car does NOT come in manual form. So what's the deal, why do so many people say it's only covered to 1.6T?

FWIW i came across Lewis boats (590WA) which may be what I am looking for (in terms of form/function) and weigh a little less than some others I have looked at:

1600kg apparently BMT

Perhaps optimistic but I am going to check them out

Lewis make a nice boat, maybe not as "feature packed" as some others, but nice ride/handling and good value for money.

Certainly one that I'd be looking at (if I had the space...and the money!!!).

[twin08]

Hello All

I use to tow my 6.4m overall plate aluminum cat with a four year old Ford Falcon six cylinder petrol wagon, auto. It was fitted with a 2.3t tow pack and I used torsion bars when towing to level the load. The Falcon towed the boat really well, although I would just drive at no more than 90km (on the freeway) as I felt that over that speed I would sometimes feel the back of the car would give the slightest wobble around a corner. The power of the Falcon was just great up the hills and most times, the speed would not drop that significantly.

I towed the boat a few times to South West Rocks and also down the coast. At the boat ramp I would have the family sit in the car to add more weight over the back wheels. I would also have the fuel tank full and put the auto into first and do a slow hill start using the handbrake. This would just pull the boat out of the ramp, without spinning the wheels. The only ramp I did have trouble a few times with wheel spin was Botany Bay, Foreshore Drive as at low tide it’s just a slippery, slimy ramp! But, using the slow hill start and taking it slowly, the Falcon was able to pull the boat out of this ramp.

The Falcon was due for replacement so I borrowed a Toyota Kluger front wheel drive, which has 2t towing capacity and hooked up the boat for a test drive on a wet day. I drove to a steep hill to do a hill start to imitate the boat ramp conditions and on the wet road, the car was slipping backwards and wheel spinning badly. Even making a right hand turn at an intersection, the front wheel drive slipped and did not feel safe. After this event I took the boat to a weigh-bridge and it came in at 2.3t, 2t over the axels and 300kg tow ball down weight.

I currently have a Nissan Navara 4x4 2.5L diesel 3t towing. The Navara feels safer on the road than the Falcon and cruises at 100km on the freeway, but just dies up the hills; I miss the power of the Falcon. I don’t put the Navara in 4x4 at the boat ramp to pull the boat out, but at Botany Bay Foreshore Road I did do a small wheel spin at low tide.

Regards

Edited September 15, 2012 by Game-fish

[rumz]

I also tow my 5.7 aluminum boat with a 2004 Falcon on petrol/gas, only use the petrol to get up the steep hills at Mount Kira Wollongong, other than that it tows perfect on gas..

The single most important upgrade I was told to do is fit an external oil cooler for the transmission, when towing the transmission box heats up really quick..

It only cost me $160 fitted...I would be getting this this done first..

[35R]

Thanks for the input/comments guys. I checked out the owners handbook this morning and nowhere does it say i can only tow up to 1600kg legally. There are some requirements for 1600kg to 2100kg which have been discussed already though. On the boat front, we went to chat with Lewis and the 590WR may be the go (just have to see one in the flesh) and another that looks like worth checking out is the new CruiseCraft 530.

[jimg1au]

i have a vt 5ltr spack tow my 3 bike traler eveywere and also my 5.2 seafarer viking.have no trobles at all lsd in rear

your wm cap has a towing limit of 2.1 t as long as the trailer is braked as dose my vt

[zmk1962]

The V8 you have will tow almost anything, but I am with all the guys that talk about focusing on what you need to pull up and stop your rig being a bit more important than how much power you need to tow.

I tow with a v8 Landcruiser - my rig on the weigh bridge is just on 2.7t. I have had to do some emergency braking with the rig behind me on 1) a highway due to accident ahead and 2) on Pennant Hills Rd in Sydney (just off the free way) when ignoramus drivers decide to cut in and take up your braking space. What was a comfortable brake can quickly become an ABS assisted lockup on the car and full lockup on the 4disc bogey trailer. Blue smoke all around. I think if I was in anything but a heavy 4WD the forward shift in weight of the rig would have pushed on the towball and taken weight off the car front and affected my steering.

I admit I am on the conservative side of things like this, but that's my 2c worth.

[35R]

Makes sense. So what do we reckon affects stopping power most, mass of the tow car, contact patch (tyres), big brake kits?

[The Incredible Hull]

Makes sense. So what do we reckon affects stopping power most, mass of the tow car, contact patch (tyres), big brake kits?

I'd say none of the above, D) Travelling speed! hehe

But in all seriousness, if you had decent tyres and decent brake pads, I'm leaning towards the size of your vehicle.

[zmk1962]

Makes sense. So what do we reckon affects stopping power most, mass of the tow car, contact patch (tyres), big brake kits?

I also tend to lean toward Isaac Newton's theories and MASS being pretty important. Tyres and big brakes are important but their effectiveness - especially of tyres are highly dependent on the road surface conditions. The discussion so far relates to braking. Consider also "controlling" your rig. Regardless of how you set the rig up - potholes, bumps, crosswinds, passing trucks or combination of these will shake your rig around. When >1.6T of boat starts to dance around, it will have a much bigger effect on a 1T tow car than a 2T 4WD - basic physics.

People often point to semis and state why does this then not apply to a 40t trailer coupled to a semi - just look at where they are connected. The trailer coupling on the semi is positioned on top or ahead of the rear drive wheels. The semi bears its download and any side ways thrust ahead of the rear drive wheels. This weight distribution makes the trailer proper take on characteristics like a front wheel drive car. The drive wheels are underneath the front of the trailer.

Now consider where the boat attaches to your car or 4WD - its about 1m behind the back axle. The pivot points and forces are very different. When the boat and trailer swings to one side there is an extra 1m lever trying to swing the front of your car in the other direction. When you brake and the boat pitches forward, that 1m lever is trying to lift your car front off the ground. This is where mass helps. It takes greater forces delivered by the boat and trailer to move a bigger mass around. This is independent of brakes, tyres and road surface conditions.

At the end of the day, I feel safe towing comes from understanding these basic principles, staying within the legal constructs, watching your speed, watching the drivers around you, staying withing your rigs limits and progressively learning how YOUR rig behaves under different conditions. eg Mine is different going out and coming back - there is usually 150L less fuel and hopefully some fish in the rig - the weight distribution is different. Its noticeable.

[35R]

Thanks guys. Going to water test a Sea Hunt tomorrow morning, assuming no surprises this is the rig i will be towing (attached).

[Rabs]

Hi all,

Towing heavy weights can be complicated. My rig is a V8 Landcruiser Sahara with a 625 Outsider. Total weight with gear and 250L of fuel about 3T. Always consider the full weight not just BMT. Legally the boat/trailer is fitted with electric hydraulic brakes and these MUST be adjusted to the weight and tow vehicle so they work effectively. Yearly heavy vehicle inspection is required. The large tow vehicle certainly makes braking easier but when towing large rigs you must plan for the unexpected and the worst scenario. This can be in heavy traffic or at a local coastal ramp. The last thing you will want is to end up in the funny pages or in the local paper getting the tow truck to pull you out of the ramp. So my advice is don't read the maximum tow weight of vehicle and buy a boat to suit as you still need an amount of flexibility. If things go pear shape on the road and you lose control of the rig (harsh braking. etc) you can end up having a very bad day..

Regards,

Rabs