Oil Injection

[robthefisherman]

Hey guys

I'm interested to hear your opinions or oil injected motors

As I'm starting to look around for a boat I'm finding a few that have had the oil injection disconnected.Is this common and is the injection that unreliable that disconnecting it is the best insurance option.

I certainly like the idea of not mixing fuel but would certainly hate for it to fail resulting in a very expensive seized outboard.

[robthefisherman]

Er - I will leave this to Iain to answer.  He will have some very strong views on the subject    .

62419[/snapback]

Sounds like a vote for disconnecting it to me

[Grantm]

Steer well clear of any engine that has had its oil injection disconnected as this has usually been done because it failed or has been blamed for an associated engine failure. Either way something has gone wrong and you should not consider this motor.

Fair enough if you want to disconnect it yourself though, just dont buy someone elses trouble.

[Whitto]

Been there

If injectors fail on a particular model and motors start to detonate .... the manufacturer will issue instructions to all dealers to remove it. This saves them $$$ on warranty repairs.

... I had the dealer disconnect it on a new Johnson 25hp at the first service ... then it's mix your own fuel, or there is no warranty

[Grantm]

Hey Whitto,

Weve got no dramas with that happening. Etec can run out of oil and then go for up to five hours in failsafe mode - no damage. How good is it.

[Whitto]

Grant,

I was very tempted to say the Etec rules and hijack Rob's post ... but I refrained

.

.

.

OK ... they rule

The DVD I got from BRP in the States has a bit where the oil line is cut and the computer puts the motor into safe mode and allows you to get home

will have to call the RUDE quit line for me ... AGAIN

Sorry Rob ... that Grant is a bad influence

[Grantm]

Sorry Rob ... that Grant is a bad influence 

62440[/snapback]

Im bad to the bone baby

[robthefisherman]

Steer well clear of any engine that has had its oil injection disconnected as this has usually been done because it failed or has been blamed for an associated engine failure. Either way something has gone wrong and you should not consider this motor.

Fair enough if you want to disconnect it yourself though, just dont buy someone elses trouble.

62428[/snapback]

How many others agree with grantm here? Should a motor thats had the injection disconnected be passed over or will a mechanic be able to tell during an inspection if anything has gone wrong?

I'm not disputing you on this grant just curious as to what others think, For example if the injection has been disconnected as in whitto's example because a manufacturer has ordered dealers to disconnect because of past failures with that particular engine then theoretically there would be no problems with that engine, then again how you would know that is the case I have no idea.

I've never owned a boat and all my experience with 2 stroke engines have been of the victa variety and buying a boat is a major purchase so I want the best chance of getting it right

The best solution I know is to buy a new boat from a dealer with warranty but with a budget of 12k and wanting a 4.5-5m runabout with all the gear, new is not really an option.

OHHH this whole boat buying process is giving me a headache, think I'll take a bex and lie down

[Whitto]

Getting it right the first time is very hard work

There will be nothing to indicate damage to an engine with the injection turned off, providing the oil has been mixed properly for the life of the motor.

The failure is with the injector ... the classic "20 dollar" part that can destroy your 10 thousand dollar motor.

This is why manufacturers will have them disconnected, and MANY people don't trust them once the warranty period is over.

Buyer beware and all that Rob.

"Take a bex and have a good lie down"... is something my old Granny used to say.

[mark_s]

Rob

My motor is a 9 year old oil injected Merc, I have owned it for 4 years. Neither myself or the previous owner have had any problems with the oil injection. I have no plans on disconnecting mine.

Also my brother has an oil injection motor (can't remember the brand). He gets many more hours per year on his than I do and he hasn't had a prob with his oil injection either.

But there are plenty of people who don't like them. Do the search like Pedro said as this topic has been tossed back & forward in alot of detail in the past and you should be able to find most of the pros and cons.

PS you should be able to find a reasonable 2nd hand boat for the price range you are looking for.

Edited August 16, 2005 by mark_s

[Bashir]

They are the best thing since sliced cheese (sliced bread isn't that special) if they work. We've never had a problem with ours but I am hoping that it does fail one day because maybe then dad will buy a four stroke. Investigate them first www.thehulltruth.com is a fantastic boating forum, where you can do a search on certain engine models and see their faults.

[Aero]

I think it was just the johnno/evinrudes that had issues with their VRO (variable rate oil) Injection. VRO's were stand alone units. Most other brands of motors that used mechanical pumps driven by the crank shaft have never had any issues with the oil injection, Yamaha for instance.

All these problems have been sorted by the various manufacterer's now days anyway, so it shouldnt be a point of concern. For ease and accurate oil mixtures i'd go for Injection.

Chris

[Guest bluecod]

We've never had a problem with ours but I am hoping that it does fail one day because maybe then dad will buy a four stroke.

62485[/snapback]

Bash - just disable the low oil warning buzzer

Rob,

as others have said, they are good provided they keep working and there wouldn't be too many really unhappy customers IF there was an easy way to ensure your warning system was in working order.

Its pretty easy to tell if a motor has had major work done on it - look for nuts/bolts with the paint removed, obviously replaced crankshaft seals etc. or just get a mechanic to give it the

I run an oil injected two-stroke but the next one will be a four stroke.

[Bashir]

George I did at one stage, but the problem was that the alarm was going off every single time I ran into a bit of chop. Ended up being a dody wire connection.

[Grantm]

Hey Rob,

Just bear in mind that just because a motor has no visible signs of repair ie witness marks on bolt heads etc, doesnt mean it hasnt suffered.

I can tell you from personal experience there is no way a mechanic can tell if there is any underlying problems from an inspection.

I just believe that if something like oil injection is disconnected it smells of trouble and with so many motor options out there you can do better.

Just be carefull where obvoius changes have been made from the standard set up.

Cheers

[robthefisherman]

Thanks guy's

Whatever I end up buying I'll be getting a mechanic to do a pre-purchase inspection on it, I would imagine if the engine has suffered any major damage due to no oil that it's going to affect the compression and thats pretty easy too detect.

Seems to me that there must be a lot of engines out there with the injection disconnected for precautioary measures that would be perfectly good motors so I'll just get an expert to look at it and hope like hell he knows his stuff

Wish me luck

[robthefisherman]

Hey Rob,

Just bear in mind that just because a motor has no visible signs of repair ie witness marks on bolt heads etc, doesnt mean it hasnt suffered.

I can tell you from personal experience there is no way a mechanic can tell if there is any underlying problems from an inspection.

I just believe that if something like oil injection is disconnected it smells of trouble and with so many motor options out there you can do better.

Just be carefull where obvoius changes have been made from the standard set up.

Cheers

62498[/snapback]

I guess at the end of the day grant buying anything that you don't know the history on is risky, I just have to be as cautious as I can and avoid the temptation to just rush in and buy the first thing I see.

I have got my eye on one at the moment that has the injection disconnected, it was like that when the owner bought it he has had it about 18 months and done about 60 hours in it since then, it's done about 20 hrs since last service and everything was fine. I would think that if it had a problem that it would have surfaced for the current owner, do you think that is a fair assumption?

Oh well the search and dillemas go on, it;ll be about a month before I've got the cash to go out and buy one so at least that will staop me rushing into something

[Grantm]

I have got my eye on one at the moment that has the injection disconnected, it was like that when the owner bought it he has had it about 18 months and done about 60 hours in it since then, it's done about 20 hrs since last service and everything was fine. I would think that if it had a problem that it would have surfaced for the current owner, do you think that is a fair assumption?

62500[/snapback]

Mate I think thats the million dollar question. You just dont know. Although having done 60 hours at least it should be ok. Im probably overly cautious with my advice on motors but its only because id hate to see a fellow FR stuck with a dud. I have seen it all before too many times.

I suppose if it has been fully serviced, is running well with no signs of trouble, you've got as good a chance with that as with any other second hand motor I suppose.

Good luck with it, hope its a good one.

[fishn4fun]

I think the best solution is to see if you can score a boat with a four stroke, i used to own allot of two stroke dirt bikes and it gets to be a pain in the arse, also you have to be carful as to what type of oil you use, ie synthetic or castor based?????

It all gets very confusing, so if you can get a four stroke, i spent a little bit extra and got my self a honda 15 four stroke for my 3.55 tinnie and havnt had one hiccup, its just a matter of filling up and getting in the water, also the fumes from two strokes gets up my nose.

[Guest iain]

HOW DID I MISS THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was formerly a great fan of oil injection. Just keep the oil tank topped up and bob's your uncle. That was until an inexpensive part failed on a 3 year old (low hours) motor and it cost me $5k.

The fans of oil injection and those that seem to jump to its defence are invariably those that have not had it fail on them. "I've never had a problem with mine" does not mean anything. Believe me they DO fail and when it happens you're screwed. If you doubt me get on Google and do some searching. The forum already mentioned is a good start.

If the motor is a Johnson or Evinrude don't buy it. They are crap and nearly all the reports you'll read on oil injection failure is about these brands. Coincidence? I think not. If you already own one of these brands, get the oil injection disconnected. The alternative is to spend every moment of your boating life wondering if this little part is clicking away pumping oil.

If you still doubt me get on the phone and ring an independent repairer (i.e. NOT a Johnson franchise) of outboard motors and ask them.

No doubt the Johnnophiles will soon appear in this thread claiming that VRO and/or OMS gets a 'bad rap' due to misinformation and scare tactics etc. If you ask me the only untruths out there are perpetrated by those with a current or former vested intesest in these brands.

It takes 30 seconds and some simple mathematics to premix oil in the fuel. Not much of a price to pay for knowing the motor is getting oil.

As I say, don't take my word for it (although I've got a $5k bill which is quite compelling). Do your own research and make your own conclusions from that.

[Grantm]

Iain,

It would be a rare instance where we dissagree on most forum topics, but this would be one of those instances.

Your claiming that Johnson supporters will say VRO gets a bad rap and that playing down theses faults is from missinfromation and scare tactics.

I think that you saying ALL Johnson owners should disconnect there oil injection is the scare tactic here. That is a crazy thing to say and really only based on your experience and others who have had failures. This does not mean ALL oil injection systems are going to fail and there are thousands of oil injected motors out there that have served people well there entire service life without a hiccup.

I will go on the record to and say that VRO IS often blamed for engine failure where it has been the leaning of of a carb that has caused the fault. I have personally seen many OMC motors have the VRO disconnected and that fault still be there because of the carby fault or a blockage in the carb from shit fuel.

VRO on the older motors aint that great Ill give you that and it has caused many failures, but I dont think everyone should rush out and disconnect it.

No I am not affiliated with OMC either.

[robthefisherman]

I was waiting for your reply Iain, From what I've read so far I think I would feel safer to have the injection disconnected just for peice of mind. Four stroke here would probably be the best option but not really feasable on my budget.

I had no idea that when I asked this question that I would be touching on such a contentious issue.

There are obviously many pro's and cons for both and at the end of the day I suppose you just go with what makes you feel comfortable and for me the prospect of having to replace a motor because a $20 buck part malfunctioned doesn't make me feel comfortable.

As others have said many of the problems experienced with early oil injection have probably now been corrected the point in my case is that I will be buying an older boat that unless it has had the motor replaced will have an older motor so even if the modern ones are great it's not relevent to me.

Thanks for your insight guys, I certainly know a lot more about this thatn I did a day ago

Edited August 17, 2005 by robthefisherman

[Guest bluecod]

Er - I will leave this to Iain to answer.  He will have some very strong views on the subject    .

62419[/snapback]

Sort of like lighting a fuse wasn't it

Sorry Iain, but oil injection, fishing licenses and sustainability seem to have some sort of detrimental effect on your health.

Just joking, I know what you went though with the oil injection issue and it wasn't funny at the time.

[Aero]

People seem to be missing the point that there are various forms of oil injection systems. Some more prone to fail than others.

[Ken A]

Everyone has an opinion on injection & there is no right or wrong. Sure we hear from guys like Iain & others who are pissed off & rightfully so after spending a fortune after injection failure. In that position I would be pissed off too.

BUT

Please don't forget the thousands of people out there right now using oil injected engines who have no problems at all with it. I was among that group with a very reliable Johnson 70HP VRO which gave me many years of service with NO oil dramas at all.