kyngfish Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Hi Guys, A bit of a stupid question but my boat (only bought last year) hasn't had a run for almost 3 months now so I assume I need to get rid of the fuel (not pre mixed). Have about 25-30 ltrs in a 160 ltr tank. To remove the fuel, which is in an underfloor tank I assume I need to unscrew the floor and pump it out from there. There is no other way is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonywardle Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 can you put a jiggle line down the filler and remove it that way? The fuel left in is about 20% so you could just fill it up with fresh and run it for a bit then add more fresh. I don't know what the life span of fuel is. Some people don't worry about it and some do. Whats your engine model? I guess if you get it out you can put it in your mower for the other half to use while you are out catching dinner ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefish Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 She'll be right, top it up with premium and it will be fine. How old is the fuel in your mower tin ? Had any problems with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyngfish Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 I am not sure if a jiggle line will go that far. I thought about filling it completely or at least an extra 100 ltrs and after each trip refill. I've heard different stories with fuel, that its OK for a few month OK for up to a year depending on how it is kept. This is not pre mixed so should last longer. When I had a tinnie using pre mix I would get rid of any fuel after 4-6 weeks. I have a 140 Mercury about 10 years old. I am not that worried about using the old fuel for the car or mower (plenty of fuel for the other half) just not sure if I need to get rid of it and if so how is the best way to get it out of the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyngfish Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 Thanks Stevefish, I always use premium 98 for the boat. The mower tin gets used regularly as my son does lawns for other people but we have never had a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz_brett Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Mate 30 litres out 150 is nothing it wont make a difference But keep in mind while keeping your tank with a small amount of fuel will draw condensation putting water in your tank. My Theory a boat wont run real good on stale fuel but they wont run at all on water! I fill my tank when I get home (with high octain) connect the breether hose to an old oil bottle - during warmer months the fuel expands enough for me to collect 3 litres of fuel out the breather just to give you an idea how much air containing humidity it exchanges each day. Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aussie007 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 grab your self a length of fuel hose and a small 2 way hose joiner, remove your engines fuel hose connector and remove the fuel primer bulb, now attach your length of hose with your 2 way addpter and hang it over the side of the boat it must be lower than the fuel tank to siphon, attach your primer to the end of the hose than start pumping untill the fuel reaches the end of the hose and remove the primer bulb and siphon away, this will suck all your fuel out as if u ran the tank dry ive had to siphon jet skis in the past that are running pre mix and its nasty with your bely filling up with fumes ive even seen guys drink petrol siphing quiet funny because it wasnt me but im sure people have died that way one other way is to use a primer bulb and a long length of hose, put the hose down your filler hole and connect the primer bulb to the end to do the siphining for u than remove the primer bulb and let it run out, but the end that goes into the tank might not touch the bottom of the fuel tank so option one will work and has done so for me in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 When I do need to remove fuel I use a similar primer bulb/siphon technique as others above have said. I have a 15HP Auxiliary on my boat. It is fed via a female fuel coupling that clicks onto the male end on the motor. I purchased a spare male connector and attached a length of fuel hose to it, now I just unplug the fuel supply from the motor and plug the fuel supply into my hose extension - no need to remove and re-attach the coupling each time. Hold the hose higher than the fuel tank and pump the bulb until the hose fills up - then dunk the end into a jerry can and off it siphons. It is a little slow, as its siphoning through the bulb valve - but it works. Fed the mower and daughter's cars this way many times. BTW, my original 220L Alloy tank lasted 18+yrs, in that time I never drained it and often it was less then half full. When the time came to replace it, I was curious how much water was in the tank, so I siphoned of the last 30L, 1L at a time into a glass jar so I could inspect what came out. Clear fuel all the way to the end. Then it occured to me - I was extracting fuel via the fuel filter - which was also a water separating filter - which I change at least once every year. DOH ! Of course I was getting clear fuel - the filter was doing its job. But being curious I removed the filter and emtied it... and sure enough there was about 20ml (less then a shot) of water, plus some small grit and crap in there. Point of the story - there was less water/crap then I thought. Use a fuel filter - it is designed to get the little condensed water out of your fuel before it reaches your engine. Regulary change your fuel filter - its the last line of defence, once its full of water that's what you will be feeding your motor. One other point, stale fuel has two problems, a lower octane rating due to the higher volatiles evaporating and also if a lot has evaporated the remaining liquid can be more resin like and sticky - this can gum up fuel injectors, carbies, spark plugs. To overcome the octane drop, fill up with a premium fuel. I always try to use 98 (but the odd occasion I have had to top up with 95 it runs well too). So from that consideration, I personally would no bother taking 30L out, just top up the remaining 120L with 98, the 150L you have will probably be somewhere between 95-98 then. Regarding the sticky gumminess - again it depends how long the fuel has been in the tank and how much of the fuel has evaporated - but if you know you are going to lay up for a while to slow down the breakdown, pour one of those fuel preservers into the tank. My 15HP 4 Stroke Aux is a carbie model. I found that when I let the carbie dry out - the float in the carbie became "stuck" - due to the gummy resin that was left behind. The next start it would flood and leak fuel everywhere. I can't remember the last time this has happened, since I have used the fuel preserver and run the carbie dry on flushing. This post has turned out a lot longer then I thought - but just sharing one boaties experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonywardle Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Great tip about using the primer bulb! I'd never have thought of that I'll store that in the backpack for use at a later time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyngfish Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 Thanks guys, There are some great points you have mentioned. Agree that's a great primer bulb idea. I didn't want to keep a full tank so kept it low knowing that we were going on holidays for a month but then crap weather and a couple of other issued stop us getting the boat in the water. I only had the fuel filter replaced at the end of last year so that should not be an issue and I was advised to only use 98 so I do. 98 really cleans out your car engine as last summer I was filling up the car with 98 and getting jerry cans full for the boat. I then noticed that my car fuel economy increased even when I did use the ethonal mix a couple of times. I may just fill her up just before my next outing but will remember to put stabiliser in next year if not going to use for a couple of months. Thanks again for your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
union man Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Stabil is worth using. My single cylinder motor bike really doesnt like stale fuel, and I dont ride it as much as I would like too. Stabil gives me at least 6 months life using high octane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffb5.8 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 On the fuel side I have been told to stay with BP98 rather than Shell as the Shell fuel can gum up / put a varnish on the plugs of high revving 2 stroke motors. The old mechanic also said he felt BP stayed fresher longer as well. Anyone found this to be true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty13 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Its funny how people prefer some brands of fuel over others, Do you know what happens when Shells stocks are low, the servos get their fuel from Caltex and visa versa, happens all the time, just because you buy from a shell servo don't mean its shell fuel. All the major fuel companies share between them as far as I know. As for 3 month old fuel, top up with fresh fuel and it will be fine, 3 months is no issue, any condensation will be picked up by water separator or burnt off anyway. Edited August 12, 2015 by Swifty13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batfishing Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 You can get a fuel additive to help with the condensation, the cheaper way is a cup of Methylated Spirits......also doubles up as an emergency back up drink......no, didn't say that. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaners Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 You can get a fuel additive to help with the condensation, the cheaper way is a cup of Methylated Spirits......also doubles up as an emergency back up drink......no, didn't say that. Sent from my iPad using Tapa So you are saying its ok to add a cup of Metho to a tank of fuel ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I would advise against adding Metho or other alcohols to petroleum based fuels - remebering back to my chemistry days alcohols break down to water and acid and you will end up with even MORE water in your fuel then the condensation you are trying to remove. Also most outboards out in the community are of a vintage that was not manufactured to run on fuels with alcohol content (like E10). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batfishing Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Do a Google search on adding methylated spirits to petrol.......will bring up pages of results.....and yes I'm one of those old mechanics, it was regularly used and done to mix the water and burn it through............anyway, Google, read and decide for yourself Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty13 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I think people often confuse water in fuel to water into air intake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Do a Google search on adding methylated spirits to petrol.......will bring up pages of results.....and yes I'm one of those old mechanics, it was regularly used and done to mix the water and burn it through............anyway, Google, read and decide for yourself Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Unfortunaltely I am one of those that forked out $4000 in repairs to my EFI 2 Stroke having been sold a dud batch of fuel with alcohol which separated over time in the EFI pump causing it to seize - so although I am not a mechanic I have an expensive past experience to underpin my caution. I am also a Chemical Engineer so have a basic understanding of the underlying processes to mix insolvent liquids to create emulsions or miscible solutions. So while I agree with you that adding a small amount of metho is an effective method of removing water I would add to that -- only if you are going to consume the whole tank of fuel within a very short period of time - as in the case of cars with relatively small tanks driven daily. Hence, I would still generally not recommend adding metho to boat fuel to remove condensation when you consider i) if your motor is a 2-stroke it uses the fuel as a lubricant, ii) the combustion of alcohol creates water and carbon gases - that last ignition will leave some water behind, iii) most boats have significant amounts of fuel sitting idle in the tank for months at a time, iv) during this idle time the alcohol and water will separate out again and the alcohol will further break down to water and acid. So as I understand it, 4-stroke motors may not be as susceptible to issues as they have a sump and hence separate lubrication system but even then the engines have to be designed to run on petroleum-alcohol blends with many parts made out of materials resistant to the effects of the water/acid mix. ... As you say - people need to read and make their own decision based on their circustances. Edited August 14, 2015 by zmk1962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty13 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 So while I agree with you that adding a small amount of metho is an effective method of removing water I would add to that -- only if you are going to consume the whole tank of fuel within a very short period of time Fully agree with this if you add metho.. But in the initial case, 3 months 25lt fuel in 160lt tank, fill it up and get going.. If any water in your water separator drain It and off you go again.. No issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Agree Swifty13.... I wrote a fairly long post in this topic earlier -- scroll up to 12 September 2014... I documented my experiences there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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