Choice of Anchor rope

[zmk1962]

Hey Raiders,

I am about to upgrade the anchoring system on my Haines 635L (6-7m fiberglass hull) and will be installing a drum winch system.

I have a choice of rope that will suit the winch I am interested in:

• 8mmx130m 1350kg breaking  or
• 10mmx95m  1900kg breaking

I have no experience with an 8mm rope on my rig - I feel it would be way to thin to use manually all the time and I have used 10mm rope up until now. But with the winch I would prefer the extra length of the 8mm and was wondering what the Fishraider experience was regarding using 1350kg vs 1900kg breaking strain for my 6-7m fibreglass rig?

What diameter rope do you guys use with what rig?

Thanks Team.

Cheers

Zoran

 

[Jocler]

Double Braid in 8mm has a breaking strain of 1750Kg which might be better. There is always Dyneema but that is way over the top for cost.

 

J 

[Fab1]

2 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

Hey Raiders,

I am about to upgrade the anchoring system on my Haines 635L (6-7m fiberglass hull) and will be installing a drum winch system.

I have a choice of rope that will suit the winch I am interested in:

• 8mmx130m 1350kg breaking  or
• 10mmx95m  1900kg breaking

I have no experience with an 8mm rope on my rig - I feel it would be way to thin to use manually all the time and I have used 10mm rope up until now. But with the winch I would prefer the extra length of the 8mm and was wondering what the Fishraider experience was regarding using 1350kg vs 1900kg breaking strain for my 6-7m fibreglass rig?

What diameter rope do you guys use with what rig?

Thanks Team.

Cheers

Zoran

 

I use to have a haines signature 520c and always anchored with 10mm silver rope fine manually.(No winch).

I still use the 10mm on my tinny now.

I know you've got a bigger/heavier boat than the haines I had but 10mm would be the minimum I would go.I'd even go 12mm just due to strength and abrasion resistance.

Just bear in mind that 95m of 10mm rode doesn't give you much scope in deeper/rougher water/weather.

Ask yourself some questions such as:

What weather conditions am I likely to find myself out in?

What is the maximum depth I'm likely to anchor in?

Type of bottom I'll be anchoring in?

You get the picture and then base your decisions on this.

If I was going offshore in any boat regardless of size i'd want 200m of rope on board split into two lengths of 100m lengths.

I'd use one 100m length in shallower waters and clip on the other 100m length when anchoring in rougher deeper water.

A lot of people carry 50m or less of rope even when going offshore which I think is madness.I carry 100m even on my tinny as you don't use the whole amount often,but you'll be glad you've got it when you need it.

Unfortunately most of what I just said will be useless to you as that drum winch won't have the carrying capacity for the rope I like to carry.

Looking fwd to what others have to say.

Cheers.

[rickmarlin62]

I wouldn't go under 10mm in that size boat..you have to think of the weight of your boat then the pressures swell and wind can impart on it..i have a 100 mtr length and a 300mtr length with pik anchors on both and use a float and clip system .the winch you are thinking of will restrict you to fairly shallow water compered to a float system..with 95mtrs of rope at a 3to1 ratio of angle you can anchor in 30 mtrs...with a float I can fish 100mtrs...my personal opinion only but I don't see the value or use in a winch...rick

[zmk1962]

Sorry for the late reply guys... have been busy running my dear wife to the specialist.

Thanks Fab and Rick - your advice is pretty much what I have had on board for many years 200m of 10mm (in 2 x 100m lengths). I also run a 14" buoy with one of those Whitworths s/s clips to get the anchor up. Its a great anchoring system in general and has suited me fine over the years as my preferred fishing has been on the drift, or trolling out wide so very infrequent anchoring.

However, my wife is starting to accompany me more an more (which is a good thing) and she does like to bottom bash - flatties, snapper etc. To me fishing is fishing so I am cool with it and very happy we are out on the water together.

So facing more frequent anchoring,  I have to admit my Haines 635 design is not conducive to manual anchoring. It's generally not a pleasant experience especially in cold damp weather.   The hatch is awkward to get to in a swell, I have to stand up through the hatch on two foam covered bunk beds (unsteady in a swell) and I have to feed wet or wet and muddy rope into a 6 inch wide gap between the hatch opening and the anchor well....trying to keep balance, not lose fingers when the anchor snags and not to get myself and the interior cabin wet and muddy.  I am also getting older, getting a bit of arthritis in the fingers and would prefer to preserve them for my guitar playing rather than anchor rope handling.  Even 100m of slack rope floating on a buoy is not an insignificant effort. It takes time. Change locations 2-3 times and it becomes a burden.

Looking ahead most of our anchoring will be in estuary conditions (<25m depth) or on the offshore 30-60m flathead, snapper grounds in reasonable weather. (I am not a fan and never have anchored in close to the rock faces - I see many folks do it - and GOOD LUCK to them - no fish is worth it in my opinion - in those conditions I have one eye to the sea and my 200hp purring and ready to face any rouge wave I see coming in).  So I am mainly after automated anchoring for my typical requirements (for emergencies I can always carry an extra 100m of rope and have a shackle arrangement that allows me to disconnect the drum and easily connect the extra 100m if I need it just like I do now.)

I have chatted to a number of Fishraiders about winches and drum systems and their experiences.  I have settled on a drum configuration that will fit in my anchor well and have also located someone with the same boat and same drum winch installed - so I know it fits and works in my rig.

So to me it comes back to choice of anchor rope. Jocler has an interesting angle on using double braid to increase breaking strain but I have to consider the abrasion resistance factor of 8mm vs 10mm... I'll make a few more inquiries down this line.

As with everything in boating without unlimited budget - its all a compromise. The main thing is stay aware of what you have installed and its intended purpose and stay within the safe operating limits of your gear.  eg  If I do go down 8mm rope path I certainly  would not have an expectation to be able to anchor off Sydney heads in a swell or anchor on a reef out wide over night !  However, I would not see anchoring at Hawkesbury's Flint and Steel on an incoming tide as a significant issue.

Thanks again everyone.

Cheers

Zoran

 

 

[Fab1]

38 minutes ago, zmk1962 said:

Sorry for the late reply guys... have been busy running my dear wife to the specialist.

Thanks Fab and Rick - your advice is pretty much what I have had on board for many years 200m of 10mm (in 2 x 100m lengths). I also run a 14" buoy with one of those Whitworths s/s clips to get the anchor up. Its a great anchoring system in general and has suited me fine over the years as my preferred fishing has been on the drift, or trolling out wide so very infrequent anchoring.

However, my wife is starting to accompany me more an more (which is a good thing) and she does like to bottom bash - flatties, snapper etc. To me fishing is fishing so I am cool with it and very happy we are out on the water together.

So facing more frequent anchoring,  I have to admit my Haines 635 design is not conducive to manual anchoring. It's generally not a pleasant experience especially in cold damp weather.   The hatch is awkward to get to in a swell, I have to stand up through the hatch on two foam covered bunk beds (unsteady in a swell) and I have to feed wet or wet and muddy rope into a 6 inch wide gap between the hatch opening and the anchor well....trying to keep balance, not lose fingers when the anchor snags and not to get myself and the interior cabin wet and muddy.  I am also getting older, getting a bit of arthritis in the fingers and would prefer to preserve them for my guitar playing rather than anchor rope handling.  Even 100m of slack rope floating on a buoy is not an insignificant effort. It takes time. Change locations 2-3 times and it becomes a burden.

Looking ahead most of our anchoring will be in estuary conditions (<25m depth) or on the offshore 30-60m flathead, snapper grounds in reasonable weather. (I am not a fan and never have anchored in close to the rock faces - I see many folks do it - and GOOD LUCK to them - no fish is worth it in my opinion - in those conditions I have one eye to the sea and my 200hp purring and ready to face any rouge wave I see coming in).  So I am mainly after automated anchoring for my typical requirements (for emergencies I can always carry an extra 100m of rope and have a shackle arrangement that allows me to disconnect the drum and easily connect the extra 100m if I need it just like I do now.)

I have chatted to a number of Fishraiders about winches and drum systems and their experiences.  I have settled on a drum configuration that will fit in my anchor well and have also located someone with the same boat and same drum winch installed - so I know it fits and works in my rig.

So to me it comes back to choice of anchor rope. Jocler has an interesting angle on using double braid to increase breaking strain but I have to consider the abrasion resistance factor of 8mm vs 10mm... I'll make a few more inquiries down this line.

As with everything in boating without unlimited budget - its all a compromise. The main thing is stay aware of what you have installed and its intended purpose and stay within the safe operating limits of your gear.  eg  If I do go down 8mm rope path I certainly  would not have an expectation to be able to anchor off Sydney heads in a swell or anchor on a reef out wide over night !  However, I would not see anchoring at Hawkesbury's Flint and Steel on an incoming tide as a significant issue.

Thanks again everyone.

Cheers

Zoran

 

 

Good luck Zoran.Just for future reference instead of anchoring through the hatch standing on the bunk beds etc,you can always run a short length of rope to the helm and clip your anchor to this rope that you carry inside the boat in a fish box or similar. If you weren't aware.

It works a treat for boats with difficult access to the bow due to one piece windscreens/small hatches etc and is much safer to boot.

Anyway all the best with it mate.

[rickmarlin62]

plus one on retrieving from inside boat..12mm rope from bow back into boat attach anchor rope thru loop..when pulling anchor in I just drive past float wait till float hits chain then stop pik up rope laying next to boat turn round and idle back along rope...no pulling no weight and I don't leave the helm in my boat..so very safe..no hatch bulls@#t..no waves over the bow no water in your cabin....depending on style of anchor how strong is the winch setup if you have to try and drive your anchor off a reef ???..rick

[zmk1962]

Thanks Guys....  a friend of mine that used to work for MSB introduced me to that techique and I have used it a few times.  It overcomes a few of the issues I mentioned above but also introduces others.

The downside if this technique is that you have to have some type of container lying around the back of the boat to hold the rope and anchor(s) and when you are not anchoring it is just doing that - lying around the back of the boat taking up space while waiting to be used. Yes you can move it into the cabin out of the way but regardless  I always had the fear that some newbie would stumble and fall impaling themselves on the reef pick prongs.  Also maybe its just me, but I never found it as easy as you describe Rick - trying to idle up past the rope in calm water was a cinch, but in a chop I have drifted over the rope with the risk of fouling the prop etc etc.  As I mentioned before in my experience no technique is perfect - its all a compromise. 

My main intention is to automate the typical anchoring I plan to do. In the event of the anchor fouling on a reef, the drum winch I am looking at has a 3.6T holding capacity at anchor - and at that rating it will probably rip the bow out before the winch lets go so I plan to have a weak link in the set up rated at well below that capacity to prevent just that.  The other alternative is to tie off the rode onto the existing anchor bollard which will not be removed as part of the winch installation and pull the anchor up just as I do now. But again that manual intervention will only need to be done if the anchor fouls.

Anyway we have drifted way off my original topic regarding peoples experience with different anchor ropes into discussing pro and cons of different anchoring techniques - I think someone else started a chat on that topic and maybe we should move the bulk of this dialog to that topic.

PS - Thanks again guys....appreciate the different viewpoints... it helps me review what I am considering and make sure I have not missed anything in my analysis.

Cheers

Zoran

[back cruncher]

Hi all...I think the 8mm would be plenty strong.how much weight is the rope actually holding when anchored ???,it's will never come close to holding the boats actual weight imho.at a wild guess I bet the anchor and rope holds less than half the boats actual weight in bad conditions.

im sure you could find some info on this on the net.

[Welster]

6 hours ago, back cruncher said:

Hi all...I think the 8mm would be plenty strong.how much weight is the rope actually holding when anchored ???,it's will never come close to holding the boats actual weight imho.at a wild guess I bet the anchor and rope holds less than half the boats actual weight in bad conditions.

im sure you could find some info on this on the net.

I know when I hook onto the plug with 50lb braid it's hard enough to break.

[spotterone]

I run 8mm rope on my winch for the same reasons you are considering it - more rope for anchoring in deep water. My boat is about 6m long and is a Signature, which like yours is heavy. I've broken the rope once, but only because of a poor loop which was pre-tied and supplied that way. The ropes that come with anchor winches generally have 5m or so of much thicker nylon rope for shock and abrasion resistance, as well as 6m of short link chain. If I had to order another rope, I'd go exactly the same way again.

[zmk1962]

Hey Guys.... thanks for the input I will take it all onboard.  I am also waiting for the manufacturer to revert with some data.

Spotterone - the vendor is promoting 10m of chain with the 8mm rope... so I think the consensus is now to move away from the 5m of thicker shock  leader  and just deploy longer chain. But your experience is a good one to add to the mix. Thanks.

Welster I can't agree with you more... that braid sure is strong and a b*stard to break when snagged... and as tempting as it is to spool 10+ kilometers of 50lb braid onto the anchor drum you haven't quite convinced me... he he he....

Cheers guys... and tight lines..... I am out looking for flatties around Barrenjoey this weekend.

Zoran