Failed Fishing Trip - Curious?

[Armpits]

Went out yesterday fishing at land based around the harbour on the other side more towards Rosebay. We didn’t catch not one fish but other people beside us kept hooking them in. Got a few questions here.

1) What time is the best time when fish are biting? Is it just before high tide and after high tide? 

2) We was using baits: Yakkas (frozen from one week ago), Chicken Guts on a normal bottom sinker setup with light mono line and 10lb fluro leader with 5/0 circle hook. Why did we not catch anything? I would of thought fresher Yakka bait than servo bait would atleast land something? Plus we was at same spot using same bait last time and caught decent fish. Also the guys down beside us kept catching plenty of fish all day though I think they were using bread and no sinker or swivel just line and hook with bread. If I could see correctly I think the fish were a couple of Trevally. Why were they catching fish what was it that they doing that made them catch so much?

Hope someone can help me out...

[DerekD]

Hi Armpits,

On the tides thing I am of the personal opinion people put too much stock into if it is a high or a low tide. It is not that tides don't play a role but people talk about high or low tides like a mantra rather than thinking about why it would have an impact. For example, on a rising tide at mangroves it allows the fish to get in amongst the mangroves. On a lowering tide they might be waiting at the edges for food to be washed out. This is where a tide could/would make a difference. In Sydney harbour there are a lot of pelagics which are cruising around looking for food. Ask yourself why they would care about a tide - it might be that it results in a back eddy which traps baitfish. Spit Bridge is a good example of where the tide would make a difference - on a run out tide a fish will have to expend energy to hold in the channel. At dead low or dead high tide the water flow will be minimal so a fish expends far less energy when finding food.

On your second question a 5/0 hook is pretty big and what I use to chase kings and jewfish. I usually have a sleeper line with a bigger hook 5/0 or 6/0 and bait but pick up far more fish on the 1/0 or 2/0 light rig. It may be a bait choice for the day or just the wrong location for the day. If I don't get fish within 15 or 20 minutes I change location till I find fish and then fish that area till it gets quiet and move again.

Most of fishing advice is guidelines rather than hard and fast rules. On many a fishing show the advice is that if something isn't working on the day try different things till you find something that does work.

[Towlersbay boy]

The atmospheric pressure was really low yesterday so any fish with a swim bladder would have gone out to deeper water to try and stabilize. Also the current inshore is dead & water is filthy. South swell should sort it out this week.  

[Volitan]

Also, were you using the circle hook as it’s intended to be used? Circles require the fish to take the bait fully into its mouth then swim away until the line tightens, rotating the hook in its mouth until the wall of the fishes mouth becomes trapped between point and shank. Given a 5\0 circle hook I think that’s unlikely to happen with the fish that I expect were there.

[rickmarlin62]

go down in hook size for starters..forget the circles for time being  go with a suicide or French hook..once you start getting more proficient maybe try circles..they are not as good as others on bream n trevally  and if there are tailor they will more than likely bite you off before you can set the hook....try 1  or 1/0 you may have more success...rick

[recurve]

Can be a fine line some days between success and failure. We often fish where there are lots of Trev when we target pelagics. If we want to catch them we go small lures and if we want to slay them we go small micro jigs. Same with Amberjacks, if we want Amberjacks we have to change the rig to one we know they will go for. Some fish you need to know what and how to rig for.

Guys fishing lightly weighted baits with dough on smallish hooks and light gear will outfish you with big circle hooks all day everyday when it comes to Trevs, Yellow Tail, Slimies etc. Watch what they are doing and replicate.

If you want to increase your catch rate have a plan and approach for each species.

[blaxland]

Hi I am guessing you know how to tie a few easy fishing knots. I would carry a variety of tackle you can get a inexpensive starter pack at most tackle shops, If the bloke next to you is catching fish tie your self similar rig and have a go it dosnt take long. My all round fishing rig would be a 1/0 or 2/0 longshank no weight and pilchard tails and vary the retrieves or soft plastics varieties that I would change as I feel fit.

[Sigma]

Hi Armpits,

I think that you are using hooks that are too big for the species you are targeting. A 5/0 circle hook is too big for hooking up trevally that are 30-40cm. I would use this size more for for live baiting than fishing for trevally. 

As rickmarlin has stipulated (and I have told you in a pm previously), a size 1/0 or 2/0 suicide or longshank hook is what is required for trevally, bream or flathead.

Unfortunately, fishing is not as simple as buying one size hook, sinker, mono line, lure, rod, reel or float and expect to catch anything and everything. You need to have an assortment of gear to target specific fish. 

I'm not saying you have to go out there and blow a mountain of money at once but if you are serious, you need to get a couple of things every so often and you will slowly build up your fishing tackle.

Most people on this site who fish regularly and intend to catch fish regularly, have spent thousands of dollars over the years..I know that I have..

You will slowly get there mate....just keep at it.

[Armpits]

18 hours ago, Sigma said:

Hi Armpits,

I think that you are using hooks that are too big for the species you are targeting. A 5/0 circle hook is too big for hooking up trevally that are 30-40cm. I would use this size more for for live baiting than fishing for trevally. 

As rickmarlin has stipulated (and I have told you in a pm previously), a size 1/0 or 2/0 suicide or longshank hook is what is required for trevally, bream or flathead.

Unfortunately, fishing is not as simple as buying one size hook, sinker, mono line, lure, rod, reel or float and expect to catch anything and everything. You need to have an assortment of gear to target specific fish. 

I'm not saying you have to go out there and blow a mountain of money at once but if you are serious, you need to get a couple of things every so often and you will slowly build up your fishing tackle.

Most people on this site who fish regularly and intend to catch fish regularly, have spent thousands of dollars over the years..I know that I have..

You will slowly get there mate....just keep at it.

Yeh true, would a 3/0 circle hook be a much suitable size for small to medium fish? I don’t want to catch monsters. More Bream and pelagic fish is fine with me. Also the bait I’m using with the hooks will be chunks, bits and whole/half fillet of Yakkas, Pilchard and occassional Squid and Prawns.

So is my current 5/0 circle hook more for live Yakkas and for catching bigger fish like monster size etc?

Edited December 5, 2017 by Armpits

[JonD]

It sounds to me like those other lads probably had the fish feeding on bread burley and simply kept the fish right in front of them. You can often pick up old bread for free from bakery's then start putting it out into the water, even mush some of the yellowtail among the bread to get them feeding on that. 

The fact you say they were fishing unweighted lines would point towards very light line, probably down to 6lb or less with very small hooks maybe bellow 1/0. I've found fresh raw prawn to be very effective when fished among bread burley but just because those guys were catching fish there last time doesn't mean those fish will be there again ( but well worth a try ).

Sometimes you have to decide if you want to have fun on those small fish which tend to be more plentiful or stick with the bigger hooks and baits and hope for something biggef. If I were you I would start off targeting the small stuff and maybe even use those as bait once you get bored of it.

[Armpits]

Another question I have got is:

-Those guys were using no sinkers/swivel. Why is that? Any reason for not using a sinker etc?

-If using no sinker how are you meant to cast out far when there is no weight to launch the line? 

-Also always wonder what is the difference and purpose of having the sinker above the swivel? And the sinker above the hook? Can someone please tell me the purpose for each method.

[big Neil]

It is often good practice to use unweighted baits. Simply letting the bait sink SLOWLY in the water column makes it more natural. A sinker ABOVE a swivel will often keep the bait moving near the bottom. A sinker immediately above the hook will ensure the bait is ON the bottom. Hope this helps you to understand the differences a bit better, Cheers, bn

[BIGG DADDA TREVS]

Normally if I fish for bream and trevally I would use a size 2 to 1/0 hook on a weightless rig. That's just the main line joined to a leader-usually quite light for these species(around 10lb +-) This method will almost always outfish bigger hooks with yakka fillet. Trevally also prefer baits like pilchard, slimy and prawn. Keep trying mate.

[frankS]

Armpits. Don't feel bad about having a fishless day. Me and Big Neil spent 5 hours yesterday for zilch,zero,nada, Probably way better that 100 years fishing experience between the two of us and we come up empty handed, so it happens, the good days will far make up for the bad ones.

Frank

[big Neil]

3 hours ago, frankS said:

Armpits. Don't feel bad about having a fishless day. Me and Big Neil spent 5 hours yesterday for zilch,zero,nada, Probably way better that 100 years fishing experience between the two of us and we come up empty handed, so it happens, the good days will far make up for the bad ones.

Frank

Hey Frank glad u got home ok. We hardly got NOTHING...we got drenched through to the skin and 6 inches of water in the bottom of the boat, most of which got emptied onto my driveway, when I got home. Good fun anyway. Catch up soon, maybe in the big smoke. Neil

[tyrone07]

No point casting out far when I can guarantee the fish if your fishing off a wharf will be at your feet where the structure is. 

[Armpits]

22 hours ago, big Neil said:

It is often good practice to use unweighted baits. Simply letting the bait sink SLOWLY in the water column makes it more natural. A sinker ABOVE a swivel will often keep the bait moving near the bottom. A sinker immediately above the hook will ensure the bait is ON the bottom. Hope this helps you to understand the differences a bit better, Cheers, bn

Thanks for commenting. If I understand correctly so if the sinker is above the swivel the bait will be at the bottom but moving or floating abit? Where as sinker on hook will make the bait dead on the floor? 

[Armpits]

Also another curious question for everyone (please list your routine):

-When going out to land base fishing what determines if it will be fish around? Do you guys look at the weather and Barometric pressure? What is the main thing to look up on for a good fishing day?

-Also let’s say I’m fishing off a rock how to know or tell which is a good spot to pick? What should I be looking for in terms of picking a spot and where to aim my cast. 

 

[big Neil]

2 hours ago, Armpits said:

Thanks for commenting. If I understand correctly so if the sinker is above the swivel the bait will be at the bottom but moving or floating abit? Where as sinker on hook will make the bait dead on the floor? 

That's right providing the sinker is heavy enough for the current, etc. 

Regarding your other question... different species inhabit different areas for the same reason -FOOD. I'm no expert at rock fishing, in fact I'm no expert at ANY fishing...but if there's food available then there's a good chance that there will be fish there feeding. Best advice would be to study species of fish you would be likely to catch from the rocks and learn (through the internet) about those species habits. There are hundreds of variables but you can improve your chances by understanding the habits of the particular species you wish to target. After that there's an element of serendipity. Good luck...you will enjoy the challenge. bn

[rickmarlin62]

unfortunately you are asking questions that are too hard to answer in a short form...some of us have been fishing for 40yrs or more to understand when an where we fish and with all that knowledge we still draw blanks..its not a matter of saying go to this rock an throw here..every spot is different..your asking for pointers that we cant give..we don't know where u are going too..what you are using..when you are going..what the tide is what the weather is...TOO MANY.variables to give sensible answers....lots of my best rock spots I have spent time snorkeling there to look at bottom fish bait to know whats there where to throw where not to throw...none of this knowledge was handed to me on a plate  or a forum..part of the fun of fishing is trying new areas and new tecniques...im 55 and im stil goin to new spots and try different types of fishing....go out and enjoy spending time on the water trying to catch fish..if you caught them every time it would be called catchin not fishin....rick

[Scratchie]

31 minutes ago, rickmarlin62 said:

unfortunately you are asking questions that are too hard to answer in a short form...some of us have been fishing for 40yrs or more to understand when an where we fish and with all that knowledge we still draw blanks..its not a matter of saying go to this rock an throw here..every spot is different..your asking for pointers that we cant give..we don't know where u are going too..what you are using..when you are going..what the tide is what the weather is...TOO MANY.variables to give sensible answers....lots of my best rock spots I have spent time snorkeling there to look at bottom fish bait to know whats there where to throw where not to throw...none of this knowledge was handed to me on a plate  or a forum..part of the fun of fishing is trying new areas and new tecniques...im 55 and im stil goin to new spots and try different types of fishing....go out and enjoy spending time on the water trying to catch fish..if you caught them every time it would be called catchin not fishin....rick

Now that’s some solid advice! ?

[rickmarlin62]

thanks jeff I try to help if I can..you know all to well how hard it is to get a read on where an how....hopefully one of our raiders in his area may be able to assist with a few trips to help educate our newbies...rick