light game - braid backing or mono

[Bobbyburger]

HI Raiders,

I have been reading and using info from this site for years but first time posting - great source of knowledge - keep up the good work all round.  Might be one for the game fishing section but didn't look like there has been much activity recently,

In the last year or so i have been heading out on other peoples boats chasing Marlin and Tuna, had a fair bit of success catching a few Marlin, YFT and some large dollies.  Using the gear on the boats i head out with which are more often than not 50 or 50wlrs tiagras with some TLDs and Tyrnos' in the mixer as well, mainly 24kg mono with wind on leaders.  

I'm looking at getting my own setup, but want something lighter that can do the job, up to decent sized black/striped Marlin  Blue's are probably too angry for what i have in mind..  And of course tuna/dollies/anything biting.  Reason being i like the idea of  smaller lighter rod and reel to feel the fight more and more comfortable to use. 

I have been reading into the difference of just using mono vs mono topshot with braid backing and it seems there is quite a divide in opinion (as with most subjects on game fishing) as to just sticking with mono on bigger reels or using the hybrid approach.  Some articles i have read have said that using braid is an unfair advantage and shouldn't be allowed under the IGFA rules and others say it doesn't have the stretch to be consistent and also expensive etc.

Few questions:

Thoughts on braid backing vs full mono?

IF not using hollowcore connection what is the strongest braid to mono knot that can be used to tie braid to mono?  FG an obvious one, but is a bimmini to FG doubled stronger for example?

What reel would you use for the above application using braid and topshot? 15/24kg setup.   If just mono i would prob go tyrnos or tiagra depending on budget.. 

Thanks in advance,

Mr Burger, 

PS i should put some report up soon of such outings, bad on my part. 

 

[JonD]

I'm using mono under the braid against the spool to stop slipping, approx 10m. On my gear for tuna and marlin etc I've then got a spool of 400m x 50lb ocea braid with around with a mono topshot filling the rest of th spool to the top ( approx 80m of mamoi 50lb mono) .  The fg would be my choice if I wasn't already doing pr knots with a special tool, these can be tricky at first.

I was recently talking with the organisers of a game convention in Bermagui and apparently my setup is comp legal, not that I fish comps.

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by JonD

[Bobbyburger]

Thanks JonD - Helluva catch there on what looks like a Saragossa in a dinghy!!  So the braid is a straight connection to the mono via PR knot?   I was just looking online, it looks like the game fishing association would need to test both lines backing and mono for records etc - both would need to be tested at the right strength.. so the chances are the braid would be a higher breaking than mono etc but otherwise legal and can fish tournaments etc.  

I really like the idea of having a versatile setup that can be used for fish like your pics but also still be fun on smaller models rather than just winching them in on a 50W. 

heard the fishing has been going off down the coast, some big YFT around Sydney at the moment, Sunday looked like a great day with big yellow fin in large schools busting up out wide! 

Thanks for the reply, 

 

[JonD]

I haven't heard to much about the outside stuff as I've been chassing green things in shallow water. Have to be careful what I say as Ive already had charter operators trying to steal my inshore marks. 

[Bobbyburger]

Never seen a kingy with those banana shaped fins before - Do you use the same setup for the Kings as you did for the Marlin?  

[JonD]

9 hours ago, Bobbyburger said:

Never seen a kingy with those banana shaped fins before - Do you use the same setup for the Kings as you did for the Marlin?  

Yes the same gear, though we were using 10000 Saragosa's on the bluefin with 40lb braid.

[Berleyguts]

On overhead game reels, most game fishers fishing under IGFA or ANSA rules will fish pretest or signature mono straight through. We need to be sure that the line, when tweeted, will break at or below the line class division entered. I prefer mono for trolling anyway - the stretch is forgiving. I use braid on some threadline reels for flicking plastics, snapper fishing and bottom bashing for flathead where the sensitivity of braid can be useful. As braid usually breaks well  above it’s stated breaking strain (why they do that I don’t know),    we’ll use a short length of pretest mono as a breakaway line between the mainline and the leader. In ANSA, I can choose to not fish line class (heaviest fish on light line class) and just fish length only division, where points are scored on length not weight, so line class doesn’t matter (e.g. my PB flathead was 4.2kg - I caught in on 6kg line so it wasn’t worth weighing in the 6kg line class but at 870mm it was worth entered in the length only division). When I use braid, I use mono backing. I use double uni knots but am starting to learn the FG knot.

[JonD]

We have no choice but use braid when daytime broadbill fishing as we need to get baits 600-700m deep and feel bottom or bites. Not sure how these broadbill records are being made as they are on braid which as pointed out has some quite variable strengths, often well above what they are stated at, in saying that there are igfa braids. Personaly I don't go in for records or comps so it's not an issue.

[Berleyguts]

28 minutes ago, JonD said:

We have no choice but use braid when daytime broadbill fishing as we need to get baits 600-700m deep and feel bottom or bites. Not sure how these broadbill records are being made as they are on braid which as pointed out has some quite variable strengths, often well above what they are stated at, in saying that there are igfa braids. Personaly I don't go in for records or comps so it's not an issue.

Yes, I wasn’t thinking about deep water fishing for broadbill... mainly trolling skirts etc. Thanks for the insight! ? Yes, there are IGFA rated braid lines but I think they’re pretty expensive. I don’t do much game fishing but always carry a 6, 10 or 15kg outfit spooled with mono. That’s heavy enough for me! 24kg standup would probably see me pulled in! From my reading of early game fishing books, Dacron was the mainstay of gamefishing in the day. That’s a braid, isn’t it?

PS. If the broadbill records are being made in braid, the entry will go in the line class that the braid breaks at when tested. I know when submitting a record claim with ANSA, you have to provide a 100m sample of the line used for testing. In the case of mono, if you submit 10kg line and it tests at say, 10.15, the entry goes in the 15kg line class I think it would be the same with braid and IGFA.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Berleyguts
PS added.

[foulhooked]

Ive been using 30 sized overheads tyrnos mostly packed with braid and a mono topshot. You can fit close to 800m of 80lb on a tyrnos 30. I then attach 50m of 80lb momoi with an fg. Outfits have caught tuna to 70kg and marlin to 150kg no problem. Outfits also double as beast kingfish livebaiting gear

Using 24kg game rods with all runners. No rollers

[Bobbyburger]

Cheers guys, lots of good info.  FoulHooked - any reason why no rollers on the rods? heard they may catch the braid but also that you can get braid friendly rollers.  

[Berleyguts]

27 minutes ago, Bobbyburger said:

Cheers guys, lots of good info.  FoulHooked - any reason why no rollers on the rods? heard they may catch the braid but also that you can get braid friendly rollers.  

From my point of view, I opted years ago when I built my 10/15 stick, for only a roller tip and quality Fuji guides. Theory was that this was more suitable for jigging as well, also to flop the odd cast out a fraction too.  Once spent 3 1/2 hours on a yellowfin around 100kg on 10, standing up in a 14ft Quinnie only to lose it at the boat. The line was fine, so no problem with the regular guides. The fish rolled up in the wire trace and the double wore through on the tail. No rollers (except tip) meant for a lighter rod and easier to work when jigging.

[nipper]

In regard to the braid as backing and claiming records. As it was mentioned most braid will break over there labelled breaking strain. The new rules from IGFA state that only a minimum of 5 metres of mono topshot in the desired line class is required for testing requirements so you can use what ever type and size of braid you like. These rules are allowed everywhere except NSW at present so the records for broadbill that have been caught are caught in Victoria and are made under the new IGFA and GFAA  rules and probably have heavier size backing with a mono topshot of the line class they are fishing.

Hope that clarifies any questions.

[foulhooked]

On 5/10/2018 at 2:44 PM, Bobbyburger said:

Cheers guys, lots of good info.  FoulHooked - any reason why no rollers on the rods? heard they may catch the braid but also that you can get braid friendly rollers.  

I think most decent rollers are braid friendly now. Used to have some rollered rods but even after taking care of them some rollers seized up (may have just been bad rollers). Never have to worry with good fuji guides. Just one less thing to worry about. Never had an issue with line joins getting caught either.

[Bobbyburger]

Thanks Guys, it's interesting with the legal braid backing any why NSW is pushing back on these laws. Now the wind needs to piss off so we can go out there and chase something! Hope the YF Tuna are still handing around.