Live bait tank plumbing

[lakelad]

Hi All,

I've got a bait board/live bait tank to install, this one, and I also got the kit they sell (photo attached) for bottom draining with bilge pump etc. not sure on the best arrangement to plumb this to keep fish alive and make use of the bits they provided.

I should note did email Prowave who make these, and they offered to help during business hours via phone so I can't fault them, but the week got away on me and I'd like to install on the weekend.

My thoughts on how it goes/questions:

• The bilge pump sits on the bracket on the back of the boat
  • It looks like I need to drill out the black plastic fitting for the pump so the water shoots up the bracket via the stainless tube and goes into the pump? Or not?
  • The right angled fitting is for water in from the pump. Does this go down low for the best water flow or towards the middle of the tank?
• The drain is the more flush mount plastic fitting, but how do I plug it, maybe I need to buy a valve for the hose, or maybe this doubles for overflow using the pipe?
• For overflow, perhaps the drain doubles and they jam the pipe into it, and pull it out each time to let water out, but this seems a little crude I might be missing something?

This setup on raider looks good, with water going in mid tank. My current live bait drum has the water going in the bottom and that seems to work well, but the old drum is bigger and cylindrical which would effect the water flow vs my new smaller square unit.

Appreciate your comments on my assumptions/questions so I can keep those slimies and squid alive longer!

Cheers!

 

*Whoops, wrong area of forum, how do I move this??

Edited December 14, 2018 by lakelad

[rickmarlin62]

Make sure there is a hole in bottom of pump base this allows water to shoot up thru pump when you are travelling without having pump on...mount so pipe pikup  is just below hull and catches water down closer to centre is better as pump needs to be underwater at rest...water should enter tank up high and drop into tank...overflow should also be set high at watever depth u wish to maintain  normally u mount a tap at bottom to drain water   hope this helps...rick

[rickmarlin62]

Hope this helps

[Welster]

I agree with rick but plumb the water inlet to the bottom of the tank from the top with a small pinhole at the top  to stop it self symphoning back when the pump isn’t on. 

I think the water cleans and circulates better when the clean water goes in the bottom and circulates around exiting at the top.

You might need a valve on the inlet side to control the flow  so it doesn’t overflow when underway. 

 

[zmk1962]

3 minutes ago, Welster said:

I agree with rick but plumb the water inlet to the bottom of the tank from the top with a small pinhole at the top  to stop it self symphoning back when the pump isn’t on. 

I think the water cleans and circulates better when the clean water goes in the bottom and circulates around exiting at the top.

Thats how I have mine set up.... water inlet at bottom.

Cheers Zoran

[Sigma]

@welster, @zmk1962,

I think he has a spray nozzle (aerator) and I could be wrong but I thought it might be better if it was installed at the top.?

[zmk1962]

I had a re-read of @lakelad 's post and he has several links in his post. When I clicked on those it opened up the sellers website for the bait tank and the kit .... there's also a link to a post from you @Sigma. Looks like @lakelad is trying to emulate your set up !! 

Anyway, the sellers site says this plumbing kit is for a transom mounted bait tank with an aerateor "sprayer" (so fitted at top) and the outlet plumbed out of the bottom. The plastic tube is the overflow which apparently you cut to the height of where you want the water level.  I'm concerned with these types as if the overflow tube gets blocked (can happen with a thin tube and the gunk that comes out of bait fish or squid), then the whole tank would fill up and overflow.

Cheers Z

[Welster]

My one had the top sprayer I deleted it ( actually modified it to serve as flow control still) and plumbed a water inlet to the bottom.

For the outlet with the pipe from the bottom I put a right angle piece and pipe with numerous holes as blocking was an issue.

My previous boat set up I made from scratch was better than the kit form by far I think

 

[rickmarlin62]

If u have the luxury of it draining into the well  multiple small holes are the go for overflow

[zmk1962]

11 minutes ago, rickmarlin62 said:

If u have the luxury of it draining into the well  multiple small holes are the go for overflow

+1 for multiple overflow holes !! 

Hey... I thought this topic was a bit of deja vu.  Sure enough Rick, Jason, Dave ... we all participated in an earlier topic on this ---   

I suggest @lakelad has a good read of all the Fishraider posts and then asks some specific questions..

Cheers Z

[Welster]

31 minutes ago, zmk1962 said:

+1 for multiple overflow holes !! 

Hey... I thought this topic was a bit of deja vu.  Sure enough Rick, Jason, Dave ... we all participated in an earlier topic on this ---   

 

That’s funny.   It was more interesting than Christmas  shopping in Westfields anyway. 

[lakelad]

Great feedback guys, much appreciated! Yes I put some links there, probably have given this way too much thought! But if it makes fishing better for years to come it’ll be worth it.

So the top sprayer goes above the overflow/ water level like a fish tank filter spray bar? I can see how that would oxygenate the water, not a bad idea, but also the bottom entry on my old drum works well for circulating water bottom to top.

I’m mounting this over the outboard well so I could have multiple overflows, what’s the best fitting to tap out for overflow, or are you suggesting it’s purely some holes and gravity?

Will read that other thread, I hadn’t read it just found the photo when googling bait tanks and it looked good.

[Welster]

2 hours ago, lakelad said:

Great feedback guys, much appreciated! Yes I put some links there, probably have given this way too much thought! But if it makes fishing better for years to come it’ll be worth it.

So the top sprayer goes above the overflow/ water level like a fish tank filter spray bar? I can see how that would oxygenate the water, not a bad idea, but also the bottom entry on my old drum works well for circulating water bottom to top.

I’m mounting this over the outboard well so I could have multiple overflows, what’s the best fitting to tap out for overflow, or are you suggesting it’s purely some holes and gravity?

Will read that other thread, I hadn’t read it just found the photo when googling bait tanks and it looked good.

I will post some pics that might help later on when I get near a PC

[Welster]

These pictures are of my original live bait tank in the old boat.  Maybe not the prettiest but it was very functional.  The boat was shared so the tank was made so it could be completely removed without leaving a mark or fitting on the boat.  Cantilever and a ratchet strap held it very solid.

The drain came through the bottom and was 40 or 50 mm pipe.  The reason I went through the bottom was so I had a choice of filling or half filling   it turned out the boat was fine when it was full.  I think having an oversize drain is the key to a good tank.   The  500 gph pump and also the boat underway will put in water faster than the outlet takes it away.. So the outlet really determines the flow rate.  You can see the white outlet pipe in the picture with mesh over the top and a few holes at the half way mark with a cut pipe sleeve I could use to half fill. 

You can also see the black inlet pipe turned down from the top (little anti syphon hole at the top) and plumbed to the bottom pointing away from the outlet.  On the outside of this I had the skin fitting with the hose just pushed on. I would often remove the hose to wash down the bait board.  On the hose leading to the tank I had an irrigation fitting to control the flow.

If I was setting up your tank I would definitely do something similar and just use the bits from the kit I wanted.  The 20mm outlet will restrict you a lot unless you have multiple outlets.  The other fittings and pipe pieces in the picture I used on the outside for the drain so that it didn't just drop from the tank an splash everywhere.  If yours is going to be permanent a piece of pressure hose might be tidier.   

You might be able to see the other hole in the base of the tank it was just a bung plug to drain the last bit of water out.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Welster
typo

[Welster]

This one is the current set up I have and not a patch on the old one.  It is neater and was the one fitted by stacer with the spray nozzle that I wasn’t happy with.  It functions much better now but really not big enough.  

 

The tank you have in the link is a much better starting point than mine I think. 

I had trouble with the outlet blocking and as you can see I now have a bend on it with multiple holes that does function much better.

I removed the spray nozzle and drilled it out as much as possible to get more flow. The nozzle now only controls the flow rate. I installed  an electrical junction box to put the inlet water back towards the bottom.  It’s still relatively slow to clear when a squid inks in it but much better than it was.

This boat has the through hull pump, I added a fitting to collect the water whilst underway and also a filter on the fitting end.   The stern mounted pumps like you have function better than the through hull one they just aren’t as neat.  

The old boat with pump on the stern only ever had one pump this boat is on it’s forth.   The first one died and was replaced under warranty, the replacement had a fault and sprayed water all under the floor of the boat.  That was also replaced under warranty and died as well.  They were all Johnson pumps I replaced it with a Rule pump  with no  problem since.

With the hoses inside the boat and with a water pickup fitting there would be no way to stop water coming into the boat if s hise splits. So I have used pressure hose, clamps and carry a stopper fitting that can be attached if necessary. 

These are  just my thoughts I am sure there are many ways of making it work and some of mine won’t apply to your situation.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Welster

[lakelad]

Absolute legend @Welster, thank you for the photos, and your comment on what worked and what wasn’t so good are appreciated.

I’ll have an in-depth look tomorrow and plan the extra pieces I need to install my tank.

[lakelad]

@Welster, @zmk1962 with your water entering down low, do you have issues with the water going back out when the bilge pump is off? I understand fitting a non return valve isn't an option to rectify this, as the 12v pumps don't have enough head..

Also, I spotted this cockpit drain at whitworths, could be a nice larger overflow fitting?!

[zmk1962]

1 hour ago, lakelad said:

with your water entering down low, do you have issues with the water going back out when the bilge pump is off? I understand fitting a non return valve isn't an option to rectify this, as the 12v pumps don't have enough head..

Hi @lakelad,

Actually a non-return valve is an option. I fitted a non-return valve (purchased from Bunnings - think they were in the rainwater tank section). These valves screw apart and have a stainless steel spring that provides tension on the diaphragm.  I cut a coil or two off the spring to reduce the tension - you just need enough tension to keep the diaphragm in position. The water in the tank provides the pressure to seal it.  I cut the coils progressively - tested by reassembling and blowing into the valve until I was happy the 360gph pump would handle it.  Works perfectly.

Alternatively, in my first tank I plumbed the tank to introduce the water at the top, but fed it to the bottom of the tank by having an internal tube. @Welster mentioned this in his post as well. You need to drill a small hole in the internal tube to allow air in - this will break the siphon and prevent the water being sucked out. The downside of this method is that you have a tube inside your tank, I found that squid tend to hang on to it, bait fish smack against it... so my latest tank design has the non-return valve set up and is completely smooth on the inside - no obstructions.

I have attached pictures below to help explain.

Regarding overflow: Thats a nice looking overflow fitting. I have kept mine really simple and cheap. I have two overflows, they are just skin fittings. I have drilled them and used cable ties to fashion a sieve to prevent the livies escaping. Because my bait tank sits on the marlin board I can just let the water run out, in your case becasue you will be transom mounted,  you do not want the wind to blow the overflow back on you or into the boat, you would probably want some tubing of plastic piping to deflect the water down into the well or overboard.

Hope this helps.

Cheers Zoran

Edited December 15, 2018 by zmk1962

[Welster]

5 hours ago, lakelad said:

@Welster, @zmk1962 with your water entering down low, do you have issues with the water going back out when the bilge pump is off? I understand fitting a non return valve isn't an option to rectify this, as the 12v pumps don't have enough head..

Also, I spotted this cockpit drain at whitworths, could be a nice larger overflow fitting?!

If you look in my pictures the water enters the top of the tank and I’d plumbed inside the tank to the bottom.    You are correct it can self syphon out when the pump is off.  To prevent that you drill a small hole in the pipe work at the top of the tank ( above the water line) it only has to be big enough to let a bit of air in the line when the pump is off to stop the syphon effect.    Does that make sense?    When the pump is on there is a small squirt of water there so position the hole towards the side of your tank rather than your face.

Yes some sort of filter is the go.   On my old tank I remember noticing squid swimming at the back of the boat before I realised they were the mine I had caught not long before and put them in the tank.🤦‍♂️

Edited December 16, 2018 by Welster

[Welster]

5 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

Hi @lakelad,

Actually a non-return valve is an option. I fitted a non-return valve (purchased from Bunnings - think they were in the rainwater tank section). These valves screw apart and have a stainless steel spring that provides tension on the diaphragm.  I cut a coil or two off the spring to reduce the tension - you just need enough tension to keep the diaphragm in position. The water in the tank provides the pressure to seal it.  I cut the coils progressively - tested by reassembling and blowing into the valve until I was happy the 360gph pump would handle it.  Works perfectly.

Alternatively, in my first tank I plumbed the tank to introduce the water at the top, but fed it to the bottom of the tank by having an internal tube. @Welster mentioned this in his post as well. You need to drill a small hole in the internal tube to allow air in - this will break the siphon and prevent the water being sucked out. The downside of this method is that you have a tube inside your tank, I found that squid tend to hang on to it, bait fish smack against it... so my latest tank design has the non-return valve set up and is completely smooth on the inside - no obstructions.

I have attached pictures below to help explain.

Regarding overflow: Thats a nice looking overflow fitting. I have kept mine really simple and cheap. I have two overflows, they are just skin fittings. I have drilled them and used cable ties to fashion a sieve to prevent the livies escaping. Because my bait tank sits on the marlin board I can just let the water run out, in your case becasue you will be transom mounted,  you do not want the wind to blow the overflow back on you or into the boat, you would probably want some tubing of plastic piping to deflect the water down into the well or overboard.

Hope this helps.

Cheers Zoran

Thanks Zoran I didn’t realise you had replied until I had posted mine.    I like the non return valve and the inside of the tank clear if plumbing.   If I had a choice I’d have rounded corners on the tank as well. 

[lakelad]

Cheers @zmk1962, appreciate you taking the time to upload the photos and drawing, makes sense and I'm sure this post will help other raiders in the future gets the best out of their livies.

I think I'll go with one larger 50mm outlet (vs two 19mm ones), and the bottom inlet with no return valve. I'm hoping this will keep the fish alive longer.

*Edit - I thought about reversing polarity on the bilge pump for draining, but the non-return valve won't like this.. I'll just mount the bung from outside so I can get water out without putting my hands in with crabs or something bitey..

Edited December 16, 2018 by lakelad

[Welster]

36 minutes ago, lakelad said:

Cheers @zmk1962, appreciate you taking the time to upload the photos and drawing, makes sense and I'm sure this post will help other raiders in the future gets the best out of their livies.

I think I'll go with one larger 50mm outlet (vs two 19mm ones), and the bottom inlet with no return valve. I'm hoping this will keep the fish alive longer.

*Edit - I thought about reversing polarity on the bilge pump for draining, but the non-return valve won't like this.. I'll just mount the bung from outside so I can get water out without putting my hands in with crabs or something bitey..

That looks like a solid plan and should perform much better than the standard kit. 

[zmk1962]

@lakelad I agree with @Welster it’s a solid plan. As an alternative to the bung you can fit a skin fitting and a screw end cap to seal off. Or as a further alternative in the hose section between the tank IN and the nonreturn valve - splice in an irrigation T piece and an irrigation stop cock (tap) on one of the T outlets. Open tap and tank empties. 

Cheers Z

 

[zmk1962]

2 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

@lakelad I agree with @Welster it’s a solid plan. As an alternative to the bung you can fit a skin fitting and a screw end cap to seal off. Or as a further alternative in the hose section between the tank IN and the nonreturn valve - splice in an irrigation T piece and an irrigation stop cock (tap) on one of the T outlets. Open tap and tank empties. 

Cheers Z

 

Had a bit more time now. The attached sketch shows what I was trying to describe.....

cheers Z

[lakelad]

Thanks @zmk1962, I spotted these horizontal offset drains  at WW and was thinking this could be used for the “IN” and just as effective as a bung for getting the water out from the bottom of the tank. Saves making another hole in the tank and just as functional.